Army Medics and EMT-B, wow.

[FutureEngineer]

So, I was gifted an EMT-B Textbook and Workbook (along with a few other books) to study up on for book knowledge and familiarization prior to my EMT-B Class in Fall Quarter.

Anyways, I noticed this book is 1300 pages, with an additional 70 page glossary, blah blah blah.

How do Medics do entire books like this in 6 weeks?

And just out of curiosity, what in addition to:

1. Airway Management,
2. Assessing Patients and Injuries and situations.
3. General Pharmacology
4. Respiratory Emergencies
5. Cardiac Emergencies
6. Acute Abdominal Emergencies
7. Diabetic Emergencies and Altered Mental Status'
8. Allergic Reactions
9. Poisoning and Overdose Emergencies
10. Environmental Emergencies
11. Behavioral Emergencies
12. Obstetrics and Gynecological Emergencies
13. Bleeding and Shock
14. Soft Tissue Injuries
15. Musculoskeletal Injuries
16. Injuries to the Head and Spine
17. Neonatal and Pediatrics
18. Gerontological Emergencies
19. Special Needs
20. EMS Operations and Response to Terrorism
21. Special Operations of EMS
22. Advanced Airway Management.

This alone is a LOT. And this class is 20 hours per week for 3 months. (with 120hrs clinical and didactic on top of it)

It goes over patient evacuations, etc. etc.

How much in addition to this does the typical Medic fresh from AIT go through not listed? That's amazing.

I can't even imagine how far beyond an RN or Paramedic is from this.

I'm just curious for personal interest, the Guard unit I'm going to be going into, has 11Bs (Quite a few) with their EMT-Bs, but say the Medics are above them in terms of medical knowledge. That's a very large variety of topics to memorize, too.

How do you do your clinical rotations? Didactic?

[HR NCO]

How do you do your clinical rotations? Didactic?

Are you talking about at 68W school????

[FutureEngineer]

Are you talking about at 68W school????

Yes, exactly. =)

[DreadPirateRoberts]

EMT-B isn't really that brutal, I mean you learn a lot compared to civilians, but it's really just a sneak peak into the medical world. I don't have mine yet (taking a class next winter after training) but I volunteer at a fire station, where everyone has their EMT-B

130 pages also isn't that much haha, and really you need to know the major things like trauma and heart/respiratory problems, the rest is either mostly common sense or not that difficult to figure out as far as I have seen

[Texas Rescue]

As a civilian EMT-B, allow me to throw in a couple words;

EMTs and 68Ws are very much alike, and very much different. Although many of the things they do are in fact the same, their approaches are different. Kind of like MPs and civilian law enforcement. We all know they do essentially the same job; but they're still very different. My battle is a 68W and he is leaps and bounds over me when it comes to knowledge on medicine. He knows advanced airway procedures, Advanced Cardiac Life Support (ACLS), IV therapy and the use of drugs and medications. Myself on the other hand, I was never formally trained on how to do those kinds of things. However, I've done CPR more times than he's treated patients so I have the upper hand on him when it comes to experience.

As far as the curriculum; It looks like alot of information, but you'll be surprised at how much you already know (provided you took biology in high school). It's also not like math or science where you're sitting there wondering "what the heck is this stuff?" If you read over it, it'll actually start to make sense. An EMT-B's skill set is also very small: You wont be giving meds or performing IVs on patients. What sets a basic apart from the layperson is their ability to assess a patient, and teaching that skill is what the majority of that book is dedicated to.

Talking to my battle, the "clinicals" he did were kind of like FTXs. They rotated from doing missions in the field, to manning aid stations on a FOB. Different from me where I did rotations in an ER and ride outs on an ambulance.

[Mongoose772]

Your post seems more rhetorically mesmerized than posing an actual question.

The US Army adopted the National Registry EMT curriculum for 91As (Medical Specialists) (subsequently 91Bs, 91Ws and finally 68Ws) in the mid to late 1980s. The reasonably short 110 hour curriculum (that you apparently find somewhat overwhelming) is most often taught as a 3 – 5 credit hour semester long course at the lower undergraduate level. It CAN be done as quickly as two to three 40 hour weeks. The material is, and has always been very entry level requiring only a modicum of understanding. Interestingly, if you can pass your NREMT-B exam at the end of your course you can enlist under the civilian acquired skills program as a 68W. It affords you a 4 or 5 week shorter AIT and allows you initial enlistment as an E4. This has always seemed like an unfortunate use of the CASP program to me, but as far as I am aware this remains the case. The rest of the 68W curriculum is an amalgamation of EMT-Intermediate skills; CNA skill sets and “combat” lanes training that is uniquely Army. While it certainly is a rewarding enlisted career field it is not academically insurmountable in any way. The 68W Healthcare Specialist does fundamentally have a larger “skill set” than a basic EMT. This can be attested by the additional 12 weeks of training at Fort Sam Houston. More seasoned intuitive medics will quickly outpace the algorithmic style of their initial 68W training and many advance their careers into a variety of more rigorous medical careers.

[FutureEngineer]

As a civilian EMT-B, allow me to throw in a couple words;

EMTs and 68Ws are very much alike, and very much different. Although many of the things they do are in fact the same, their approaches are different. Kind of like MPs and civilian law enforcement. We all know they do essentially the same job; but they're still very different. My battle is a 68W and he is leaps and bounds over me when it comes to knowledge on medicine. He knows advanced airway procedures, Advanced Cardiac Life Support (ACLS), IV therapy and the use of drugs and medications. Myself on the other hand, I was never formally trained on how to do those kinds of things. However, I've done CPR more times than he's treated patients so I have the upper hand on him when it comes to experience.

As far as the curriculum; It looks like alot of information, but you'll be surprised at how much you already know (provided you took biology in high school). It's also not like math or science where you're sitting there wondering "what the heck is this stuff?" If you read over it, it'll actually start to make sense. An EMT-B's skill set is also very small: You wont be giving meds or performing IVs on patients. What sets a basic apart from the layperson is their ability to assess a patient, and teaching that skill is what the majority of that book is dedicated to.

Talking to my battle, the "clinicals" he did were kind of like FTXs. They rotated from doing missions in the field, to manning aid stations on a FOB. Different from me where I did rotations in an ER and ride outs on an ambulance.

In the state of WA, and additional certifications an EMT-B can have, is IV Therapy, (44hr class) and Multi-Luman Airway Insertion.as well as supraglottic. (Shoving a plastic tube down someones throat, past the neck line) which is another additional class. Medications they can only give pills, and active Charcoal, unless certified (another state certification, in addition to the rest) to give Nitro, Naloxone, and albuterol. in pre-measured dosages. But I have no idea if those certs would transfer to another state. With 250 additional hours of training in WA you can challenge the WA-Advanced Emergency Medical Technician exam, and the NREMT-AEMT exams.

This is all in addition to the NREMT/WAEMT course. PHTLS, BLS, are a apart of regular EMT-B course work. From my understanding a 68W is a bridge between an Emergency Medical Technician, and an Advanced Emergency Medical Technician (EMT-I, new title as you already most likely know is Advanced EMT, they are phasing out the "Basic" and just doing Emergency Medical Technician, change of title, but not practice, just for others who aren't aware of it) would this understanding be correct?

Also, going through the first chapter of the book, I was wondering if you by chance knew the answers to this:
In the civilian side as you already know, has a system of PHC, Individual is injured> Call for medical help> First Responder steps in (Laymen or otherwise) > EMTs arrive, assess the patient, do what they can to stabilize, Transport to the Emergency Department> Emergency Department performs surgery or whatever needs to be done> Rest of Medical Staff perform their duties and treat the patient.

Is the Army any different regarding this?

No matter what, even for a civilian EMT as you already know, the scene has to be secured, (such as Law Enforcement secure the location if injuries due to illegal activity etc, and provide security for the EMTs to treat the wounded individual) before EMTs can even do anything. (If the EMT becomes a patient him/herself, said EMT is completely useless because they can't do their job) Does the Army have a different mentality regarding this?

As you already know, Civilian EMS under law has a Quality Improvement division within each EMS organization, to improve/change the ways they react or perform functions to increase efficiency and better care, does the Army do the same?

I was reading that EMTs follow "Medical Direction" i.e. an MD in charge of EMS system, or company sets advanced directives via protocols, which designate EMTs to perform functions on behalf of the MD, (extending the license to cover the EMT to perform the function) does the Army do the same?

I've heard about "Battalion Medical Officers", are these people the equiv to a civilian medical director? or would it be an Medical Officer at Brigade Level? I know Physician Assistants can work as Medical Directors for EMS agencies, provided that PA is working under an MD. (Like at Harborview Medical Center) How does the Army differ if I may ask?

EDIT:
For people who are confused about titles, abbreviations etc.
As of November of 2012:
+First Responder will be changed to Emergency Medical Responder

+Emergency Medical Technician-Basic will be changed to Emergency Medical Technician

+Emergency Medical Technician-Intermediate will be changed to Advanced Emergency Medical Technician

+Emergency Medical Technician-Paramedic will be changed to simply Paramedic. with EMT cleared from its title.

PHTLS=Pre-Hospital Trauma Life Support

BLS=Basic Life Support

Supraglottic Airway is a lubricated tube they shove down your threat to allow you to breath (incase you have a collapsed airway)

Multi-Lumen Airway means it's one of two advanced airway devices, such as the Esophageal Tracheal Combitube and the Pharyngeotracheal Lumen Airway, that have multiple tubes to aid in ventilation and will work whether placed in the trachea or esophagus.

Those who don't know human anatomy (or don't remember from High School) your trachea is the main "pipe" that both your oropharynx (where your mouth and nose come together/tubes meet) and your epiglottis meet into your larynx. Esophageal Tracheal Combitube, is a multiluman airway they has two cuffs on it. When firefighters went to your health class they probably showed you it before. it goes into your mouth and down your throat, while the Pharyngeotracheal Lumen Airway will go into your nose, and down your throat.

Multiluman airways let you connect two sources of oxygen (hand pump and oxygen tank for example) to supply oxygen to a patient, or whatever mixed gases are needed.

[Mr_Loki]

Navy Corpsman learn what 68W learn in about 2 weeks.

[FutureEngineer]

Navy Corpsman learn what 68W learn in about 2 weeks.

I can't even see how that's even remotely possible... O.O

Through this entire day, I'm finally in Chapter 3 of my EMT-B book, and my workbook. Out of 38 chapters, each 30-60 pages a piece. Workbook for each chapter, is 11-25 pages a piece..

With information that is 100% technical, and these chapters are intro to EMS, Well being of the EMT, and Medical Legal/Ethical Issues.

I can't see how that's even close to being possible... O.O

[Mr_Loki]

You? Not see how it's possible?

That's impossible.

[FutureEngineer]

You? Not see how it's possible?

That's impossible.

????????????

I've spent the past 7 hours reading through the last three chapters, and doing the work book.

And that's all just reading. No skills being done, just reading to understand literary material.

There is no way someone could even get the entire NREMT-B level skills, literary sources, etc. completed in 2 weeks.

Respectfully, there is no way.

Spending 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, you could potentially do it in 2 weeks, 3 days, to complete the BOOKS, but that's not doing any hands-on skills, performing any procedures, doing any reports, that's all for the book. And 4 chapters a day, for 8 hours a day, that's almost impossible considering the average size of each chapter in the book, and the amount of pages for the subsequent chapter in the work book.

[HR NCO]

There is a lot you don't understand, and you don't have to. How the army does business is not for you to scrutinize. You simply do as your told IF you become a soldier.

[FutureEngineer]

There is a lot you don't understand, and you don't have to. How the army does business is not for you to scrutinize. You simply do as your told IF you become a soldier.

Not scrutinizing the Army at all, comparing contrasting to understand is what the above questions are about.

You can't "Do what you're told" if you don't know how to even do it, you can't "jump on the same page" as a supervisor or co-worker if you don't know what's on the page, or the page number.

[HR NCO]

You're correct, you will learn all you need to learn IF and WHEN you go to basic and AIT.

[FutureEngineer]

You're correct, you will learn all you need to learn IF and WHEN you go to basic and AIT.

Edited because what was written before was complete nonsense.

[Chris36]

Speaking with Soldiers via Facebook...

So you've been talking with soldiers via Facebook too!?

Well HECK! You know it all then!

We'll add that to the questionable advice and facts you've received and then given from brothers, cousins, guys you went to high school with that you still have lunch with, guys you KNOW FOR A FACT you'll be in a unit with (if you get in) and some girl who is at AIT.

Roger that.

[Hunter]

FYI, I just got back from taking an annual CLS class this weekend. First slide said, "your secondary duty is to perform combat lifesaving skills on wounded soldiers. Your primary duty is to return fire.

Truthfully, I thought of you Future Engineer.

This one slide was a metaphor for this thread, and maybe your entire life. You're so wrapped up with secondary duties that you are missing your primary duties altogether.

[iambrian90]

here we go again.. Here is a word of advice to you futureengineer.. and I say this with all due respect, because you like the big drawn out posts.. Save the research paper for college. this site is mostly for people looking to join to get questions about the guard answered, such as... can i take my phone to basic training? or for currently in people to ask about forms, schools, things like that. You in previous posts have said you are going 11B. you need to know nothing about EMT anything for 11B. if you want to learn about how to be an EMT great, its a good skill to have, but coming on here and writing a thesis in every post basically going full circle on everythign you do will just get people mad and you will get flamed. Instead of coming on here, especially now in the Medical forum, where many of these guys have been at it for 10+ years, and arguing with them, saying something is or is not possible, how about you just ask your question and let them answer, and accept the answer. if they say you need to know 500 pages of stuff in a night, then you need to learn how to speed read. it is not at all unreasonable to have a couple hundred pages to be responsible for in a school environment, so why would you think that the army's medical people would be any less? Sure in the infantry we just learn small things of book knowledge and focus on practical exercises, but I sure as heck want my medics reading up and having as much book knowledge as possible before field training really even starts. these guys are experts, you are thinking about taking a class. remember your place around here. Most people I have seen don't take to kindly to things you post.. so my suggestion is to tone it down or ask somewhere else.

[Chief Kemosabe]

In the state of WA, and additional certifications an EMT-B can have, is IV Therapy, (44hr class) and Multi-Luman Airway Insertion.as well as supraglottic. (Shoving a plastic tube down someones throat, past the neck line) which is another additional class. Medications they can only give pills, and active Charcoal, unless certified (another state certification, in addition to the rest) to give Nitro, Naloxone, and albuterol. in pre-measured dosages. But I have no idea if those certs would transfer to another state. With 250 additional hours of training in WA you can challenge the WA-Advanced Emergency Medical Technician exam, and the NREMT-AEMT exams.

This is all in addition to the NREMT/WAEMT course. PHTLS, BLS, are a apart of regular EMT-B course work. From my understanding a 68W is a bridge between an Emergency Medical Technician, and an Advanced Emergency Medical Technician (EMT-I, new title as you already most likely know is Advanced EMT, they are phasing out the "Basic" and just doing Emergency Medical Technician, change of title, but not practice, just for others who aren't aware of it) would this understanding be correct?

Also, going through the first chapter of the book, I was wondering if you by chance knew the answers to this:
In the civilian side as you already know, has a system of PHC, Individual is injured> Call for medical help> First Responder steps in (Laymen or otherwise) > EMTs arrive, assess the patient, do what they can to stabilize, Transport to the Emergency Department> Emergency Department performs surgery or whatever needs to be done> Rest of Medical Staff perform their duties and treat the patient.

Is the Army any different regarding this?

No matter what, even for a civilian EMT as you already know, the scene has to be secured, (such as Law Enforcement secure the location if injuries due to illegal activity etc, and provide security for the EMTs to treat the wounded individual) before EMTs can even do anything. (If the EMT becomes a patient him/herself, said EMT is completely useless because they can't do their job) Does the Army have a different mentality regarding this?

As you already know, Civilian EMS under law has a Quality Improvement division within each EMS organization, to improve/change the ways they react or perform functions to increase efficiency and better care, does the Army do the same?

I was reading that EMTs follow "Medical Direction" i.e. an MD in charge of EMS system, or company sets advanced directives via protocols, which designate EMTs to perform functions on behalf of the MD, (extending the license to cover the EMT to perform the function) does the Army do the same?

I've heard about "Battalion Medical Officers", are these people the equiv to a civilian medical director? or would it be an Medical Officer at Brigade Level? I know Physician Assistants can work as Medical Directors for EMS agencies, provided that PA is working under an MD. (Like at Harborview Medical Center) How does the Army differ if I may ask?

EDIT:
For people who are confused about titles, abbreviations etc.
As of November of 2012:
+First Responder will be changed to Emergency Medical Responder

+Emergency Medical Technician-Basic will be changed to Emergency Medical Technician

+Emergency Medical Technician-Intermediate will be changed to Advanced Emergency Medical Technician

+Emergency Medical Technician-Paramedic will be changed to simply Paramedic. with EMT cleared from its title.

PHTLS=Pre-Hospital Trauma Life Support

BLS=Basic Life Support

Supraglottic Airway is a lubricated tube they shove down your threat to allow you to breath (incase you have a collapsed airway)

Multi-Lumen Airway means it's one of two advanced airway devices, such as the Esophageal Tracheal Combitube and the Pharyngeotracheal Lumen Airway, that have multiple tubes to aid in ventilation and will work whether placed in the trachea or esophagus.

Those who don't know human anatomy (or don't remember from High School) your trachea is the main "pipe" that both your oropharynx (where your mouth and nose come together/tubes meet) and your epiglottis meet into your larynx. Esophageal Tracheal Combitube, is a multiluman airway they has two cuffs on it. When firefighters went to your health class they probably showed you it before. it goes into your mouth and down your throat, while the Pharyngeotracheal Lumen Airway will go into your nose, and down your throat.

Multiluman airways let you connect two sources of oxygen (hand pump and oxygen tank for example) to supply oxygen to a patient, or whatever mixed gases are needed.

You gotta love this kid. There was the book smart geek; now its the social networking/internet one.

[FutureEngineer]

here we go again.. Here is a word of advice to you futureengineer.. and I say this with all due respect, because you like the big drawn out posts.. Save the research paper for college. this site is mostly for people looking to join to get questions about the guard answered, such as... can i take my phone to basic training? or for currently in people to ask about forms, schools, things like that. You in previous posts have said you are going 11B. you need to know nothing about EMT anything for 11B. if you want to learn about how to be an EMT great, its a good skill to have, but coming on here and writing a thesis in every post basically going full circle on everythign you do will just get people mad and you will get flamed. Instead of coming on here, especially now in the Medical forum, where many of these guys have been at it for 10+ years, and arguing with them, saying something is or is not possible, how about you just ask your question and let them answer, and accept the answer. if they say you need to know 500 pages of stuff in a night, then you need to learn how to speed read. it is not at all unreasonable to have a couple hundred pages to be responsible for in a school environment, so why would you think that the army's medical people would be any less? Sure in the infantry we just learn small things of book knowledge and focus on practical exercises, but I sure as heck want my medics reading up and having as much book knowledge as possible before field training really even starts. these guys are experts, you are thinking about taking a class. remember your place around here. Most people I have seen don't take to kindly to things you post.. so my suggestion is to tone it down or ask somewhere else.

If you read what I wrote, there are multiple questions which it seems everyone on this board avoids answering, and goes onto side topics completely unrelated to the questions if you haven't been noticing it.

Furthermore, if you think I write a lot, I'm not even going to go there.

Not a single question I've asked in this thread has been answered except incite from an individual who's currently an EMT civilian side. (Which I appreciate)

Regarding reading, there is no way in **** someone is going to get EMT-B level knowledge and skills in 2 weeks, First Responder? Sure. Not EMT-B.

That said, there hasn't been a single question I've asked that's been answered. If you don't know the answers, you can simply say you don't know the answers. It's not a pop quiz.

[Chief Kemosabe]

I found this article interesting.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/8-care...170553715.html

Emergency Medical Technician
You trust these professionals with your life. They're the people who step in to help those who are sick, injured or in danger, at times even placing themselves in precarious situations in the process. However, you might be surprised to learn that emergency medical technicians (or EMTs) aren't earning the big bucks. According to the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, the average income for this occupation is only about $27,000 per year. Considering that this position requires workers to obtain post-secondary education, be on call, work shift work and deal with a huge amount of stress, this wage seems incredibly low.

[Mr_Loki]

My girlfriend is a Corpsman who also teaches Army medics in Bethesda Navy Medical Hospital.

Kid, you're brand spanking new. You have NO idea how the Army runs. You have NO idea how anything runs. Concentrate on enlisting.


Also, you're starting to **** me off.

[iambrian90]

My girlfriend is a Corpsman who also teaches Army medics in Bethesda Navy Medical Hospital.

Kid, you're brand spanking new. You have NO idea how the Army runs. You have NO idea how anything runs. Concentrate on enlisting.


Also, you're starting to **** me off.

+1

also, you realize most of the people who are giving you the time of day are e-5 or above. sure there are a lot of us that are e4 or e3, but most who are really trying to help you are NCOs and officers. IF you ever join, you are going to get real strong real fast. trust me. you are going to get absolutely destroyed by some e5 who is having a bad day >>snip<< The army does not train to EMT-B standards as they are saying, meaning they do something else. what is so hard for you to understand. I am fairly sure that being a medic in combat is enough to help with the schooling involved in driving the wham-bulance and helping drunk people who wrap cars around trees. The army is a constant learning environment. the civilian side they train you, you get a job, you do your job. the continuous training aspect doesnt work very well to them. so again, it brings me back to the point everyone is already making.. Stop asking the same questions on multiple threads and answering them all with useless knowledge that isn't right, and maybe somebody will be willing to help you. someone who knows their stuff.. that leaves the responsibility to you to not tell them that they are wrong after they told you exactly how it is. >>snip<<

Keep it civil please. -SteveLord

[Chris36]

Even though all of this has been said to him 1,000 times....this alone was worth reading that whole paragraph....lol

Made me spit out my Monster....

[Hunter]

My browsing habits on this forum:

1. Log in.
2. See what FutureEngineer is talking about.
3. Laugh.
4. Repeat every 24 hours or as needed.