Do you have any statistics on Jewish Chaplain's in the military? I have been looking, and it seems there are very few.
2. No, but my guess is that outside of Christian chaplains, that they represent the second largest faith group in the Chaplaincy, but that's just a guess. We had a few potential Rabbi's and Rabbi's in my CH-BOLC class, though it was overwhelmingly Christian which in itself means a great multitude of traditions.
3. If you want an accurate figure, I guess you could call the Chief of Chaplain's office. Or call one of the Judaic endorsers, if you are doing research.
4. A good job is done at keeping the pool of Chaplains as diverse as possible to meet the needs of the troops.
5. Some people say that there shouldn't be chaplains. But the chaplain's duty is to protect the freedom of all troops to worship as they desire. Down range, or even at a National Guard unit, soldiers still need the opportunity to worship. In fact soldiers, at least on active duty by USC law soldiers are allowed one hour a week to worship, if time allows. I know if I was fighting for this nation, I would be a salty dog if no one gave me the opportunity to worship. In fact the Chaplain branch is the second oldest branch of the Army, second only to the Infantry. And if you read Bergen's book, you will see that they have played an important role in military endeavors since Rome, she evens has much to say about the history of Jewish Chaplains.
Blessings to you my friend!
Just don't be discouraged if you call a state and they say they aren't accepting Chaplain Candidates, keep looking into all of your options.
On a particular religious networking site, I was talking a couple Engineers who got back from deployment a while back, and both of them were going through their units to get reclassed to 56M, for both religious and non-religious reasons. (they aren't Christians, they are Nordic Pagans like myself) According to UCMJ, and DoD policies on religious practices in the military, they were saying the 56Mikes worked in 6 man teams if they were Pagans, with authorization to conduct religious ceremony towards Odin and Freyja in enemy engagement. Because Chaplains are non-combative troops, and the Chaplain Assistants are.
They were telling me that the Pagan Chaplain Assistants were humping radios (not physically humping them, but carrying them is what they ment) calling in indirect fire, working as the main assault teams into Al Quida Training Camps. (Their Combat Engineering Platoon was tasked to support them) are things like this common in the Army for Chaplain Assistants of Nordic Paganism?
And also, I was wondering if there is any particular reason why Soldiers in the Army aren't allowed to wear the Raven or Mjohlnir, but you can wear the Crescent, Star of David, or a Cross?
They also stated that the Chaplain in charge of them, was sending two of his Chaplain Assistants to Sniper School, and told them Pagans were (F word) ing psychotic and wished he had more. lol (which is why the two Combat Engineers are going through their CoC to reclass to 56M, Chaplain is helping them transfer)
They also stated that four of the six had M4s with ACOGs, and M223s, one had an M14 providing "overwatch" and than they had one of them who had a SAW that didn't look like a SAW. They said that the SAW they had didn't look like any SAW they've ever seen before. And said it weighed significantly lighter than the ones they carried. They also said that Chaplain Assistants did more VIP Protection than they did anything else, and that schools operated by the Secret Service were open to Chaplain Assistants.
What exactly is the full role of duties Chaplain Assistants have? The Chaplain also told them that if they thought his Assistants were insane, that there were even more "higher speed" Chaplain Assistants in the Army found in SOF. (When the Chaplain was Active Duty, apparently he used to serve as a Chaplain in the 75th RR, 2nd SFG, and 5th SFG prior to transitioning to the Guard) And that he was even sending one of his Assistants after they get back from deployment to a class sponsored by the FBI for VIP Escort Management Course. And that also FBI, and Secret Services schools were open to Chaplain Assistants, with everything from Counter Sniper courses, to Technical Escort, VIP Escort, and some counter terrorism courses.
They also sent me a message in reply to what I asked them earlier, and told me that the Chaplain Assistants were more "high speed" and did more "high speed stuff" than they have the four and six years they've been Combat Engineers.
Last edited by FutureEngineer; March 20th, 2012 at 03:03 PM.
Yeah...I'm not quite sure I buy all that, sounds a bit extreme.
13B, 42A, 79T
RSP NCO: Jan 07-Apr 12
Operation Noble Eagle
Covenants in Army and Marine Corps Units, as well as Navy units are ran by the Chaplain Assistants, which is what I want to verify as to how far an Assistants scope can go, and their freedoms to practice.
Last edited by Mr_Loki; March 20th, 2012 at 05:03 PM.
"I repeat the question is not about my army values or anything but legal matters."
- Should never have been said.
In regards to being "extreme", that's actually not extreme at all. In the Danish Army, and Russian Army, they have Company's of crack troops soly comprised of Nordic Pagans. In Germany, their Army's 26th Airborne Brigade has two company's purely comprised of Nordic Pagans, which has the sole purpose of being the spearhead company's for German Combat Operations abroad. German Army even goes so far to restrict Pagans soly to Combat Arms occupations, Dutch and Danish Army's do the same, even Sweden and Switzerland do. Soldiers of Pagan Religions in many European countries are restricted to specific occupational fields because of how "extreme" followers can be. (mostly towards combat occupations, with exception to some Army's like Denmark and Germany which will also permit Pagans to become field medics).
It's quite common in many European Army's, because in some countries like Greece, or Middle Eastern Countries, to be Pagan is a death sentence. (Quran promotes, encourages, and even demands the death of people who follow more than one God, and Countries that had official religions, such as Catholicism, constrict Pagans to Combat Occupations and shift them to forward deployed units consistently, such as Poland's Army, Pagan Soldiers in service to Poland are transferred to units deploying outside of Polands borders such as Africa, and Middle Eastern Nations because their Government being religiously dominant in Catholicism doesn't like the idea of Pagan Soldiers serving within their borders. Which is why Pagans can only serve as Armored Reconnaissance, Infantry, or Tank Crewman in the Polish Army)
In Russia, Nordic Pagans are all thrown into the 19th Motor Rifle Division and the 20th Guards Army. (The spearhead units of each are purely comprised of Pagans per Russian Army Doctrine, the Russians that slaughtered most of Georgia's Army were from the 20th, pushing into Osettia, the units that served as the crack troops were the all-Pagan Company's) There really isn't anything "extreme" at all, historically speaking.
If Army Chaplains and the US Army in General follows Europe's lead in regards to Pagans in the US Military, that is awesome. Considering Chaplains are non-combat troops and their Assistants are, it would make complete sense.
I'm very interested to learn a lot more about their Assistants, many Soldiers via a religious networking site are talking on transferring over to 56M.
Is there any specific Army Doctrines concerning 56M that any of you by chance would have or know of?
As to their employment, full roles of the Chaplain, etc. etc.? I would really like to learn more about 56M, and what their Chaplains will allow them to do, or encourage them to do. I know the US Army doesn't segregate Soldiers via religion (which is a good, and bad thing depending on perspective) But thinking about it, what they are telling me makes a lot of sense. In the name of Odin and Freyja, it makes sense as to why European Army's restrict Nordic Pagans (and even Hellenic) to Combat Occupations, but I would really like to know if Chaplains, (few, or many) utilize their Assistants based on religious denomination/practices.
Anyone know where I could find this info?
Last edited by FutureEngineer; March 20th, 2012 at 05:39 PM.
1. I'll be honest many times people become Chaplain Assistants because they have some sort of limiting physical issue. One common is when an infantryman gets hurt and can no longer function well as a infantryman.
2. Correct CAs do not have to be religious at all.
3. And you are correct that sometime Religious Lay Leaders (soldiers that are qualified) to lead religious services are allowed to conduct services with Chaplain oversight.
4. There are specific guidelines for worship, not every religious perspective is accommodated. (there are limitations).
5. It's probably not as exciting as your friends made it out to be. While 56M's are allowed to do many of the schools, on the list of people that ought to go they are well down the list. Now if they are in an Airborne unit, then yeah they're going to Airborne school. Or a Ranger unit, then yeah their going to be qualified.
6. There is ONE Chaplain assistant per Chaplain, in some cases two, which is VERY rare. 6 CA's conducting those types of operations together is fairly absurd. You may have 6 CA's in an entire Brigade. One CA per battalion, my friend.
7. Secret Service schools and Chaplain Assistants? (Face-palm). The only training Chaplain Assistants get is 8 weeks at wonderful FT Jackson. While Chaplains are very grateful to have CA's protecting them. There is nothing in the UCMJ or Geneva Convention that say's Chaplain's must be unarmed. In fact many noncombatants are armed consider doctors, and medics. The authority for chaplains disarmament comes from the Chief of Chaplain's office (AR 165), in fact he/she could change this policy at any time. Though I don't think that is a good idea. I personally enjoy the freedom to not bear arms.
8. I enjoy your spirit and respect your religious views. Hooah
9. Are you thinking about 56M?
Read AR 165-1 and I believe Field Manual 4 for Chaplain activities.
*I wrote something else but it must be approved.
That would conform to what they've told me concerning Chapters 4, and 9 Section III.
Conducting combat operations and serving as a part of an assault team would fulfill duties concerning religious assistance towards Nordic and Hellenic Pagans, such as those in the Combat Engineer Platoon the two Engineers I've been talking with serve in. (The death of enemy combatants in combat is a major component of Hellenic and Nordic beliefs, next to reproducing and expanding the bloodline, hense why most European Army's segrigate Pagans and some even restrict Pagans to combat occupations, because they know Pagans are religiously fanatical towards combat engagements, and why many European Countries have specific Infantry units etc. purely comprised of them that serve is Shock or Crack Troops in their Armies) That really does support what they were telling me, but if possible I'll be looking into much, much more materials. Going to look at FM-4.
And see if I can find MTOE, METL, etc. for UMTs and other components 56Ms can serve in, or be assigned too.
I've been doing some studying about Anglo Saxon history and reading some books like Beowulf, very novel (obsolete) indeed. Though, you must remember that the CA's main duty in combat is not to destroy the enemy but to protect the Chaplain and make sure he/she doesn't become a casualty.
To me being of the nature you describe and being a CA is non-conducive to the ethic. There's a lot of paperwork and other things that go along with being a CA, such as being people focused. Remember the primary task of the Chaplain is to maintain morale, enforce moral standards, provide or perform services, and to be the special staff of the battalion commander. Basically, what I'm trying to say is CA should be people focused. Chaplain work involves a lot of dealing with people's problems and issues.
Contrary to some misconceptions, CAs are not the tip of the spear. To me if you want to be involved in combat being a CA will be a severe let down. There are many other ways of be engaged in combat. Rather a CA used to be in the same MOS series as 42A (office assistant). If you choose to be a CA you may be disappointed, promotions don't come as easy, and there is a lot of office work. You could envision the chaplain telling you to go set up a space for a worship service of some sort, or having you screen people as they come for counseling. Though one perk of the job is you could get out of some work details because your primary task is to assist the Chaplains.
Any time you get to help someone it's HOOAH HOOAH, but I think it's maybe not the HOOAH HOOAH you are looking for.
Last edited by Chaplain4me; March 21st, 2012 at 08:51 PM.
Beowulf is a fable... Not a religious text... lol (Nordic Pagans particularlily, we have no "religious text" per se, it's largely oral tradition, thanks to the inquisition, the crusades, etc. Closest thing to religious test is the Prose Edda)
And quite interesting, they insist they were Chaplain Assistants and a Chaplain.... Same Chaplain is helping them cross over to 56M. Very odd....
Anyways, personally, I wouldn't mind helping people out, but I"m more of an physical activity kind of guy vs office kind of guy. Wouldn't mind it if there was a good amount of physical involvement type work. LIke HUMINT guys get (decent mix of physical work coinciding with paperwork). Or 12Ks and 12Rs, either swinging Hammers/installing wiring/piping/fixtures or doing Mobility/Counter Mobility/Route Clearance. Or 12B doing presence patrols, weapon cache sweeps or Route Clearance. That kind of stuff I wouldn't mind. (other then getting blown up a few times... lol Thank God for Buffalos! I've heard wonder stories of those).
But you are correct in regards to religious ordeals. Only time the Army or Marine Corps can cover ceremony etc. is on deployments, which is why most Nordic, Hellenic, Gaelic, and Egyptian Pagans are found mostly in combat or combat related occupations.
Last edited by FutureEngineer; March 28th, 2012 at 03:37 PM.
You were still misunderstanding what I was saying. I was not talking about the beliefs of what you discussed. I was saying that it had nothing to do with being "door kickers" or going to hooah hooah schools because someone is a 56M. How can they cross over to 56M if they were already a chaplain assistant? That makes no sense, 56M is a chaplain assistant.
13B, 42A, 79T
RSP NCO: Jan 07-Apr 12
Operation Noble Eagle
You should think about 11B, or 18X. 56M is really hard to get into and once you are there promotions come slow because people rarely leave.
You know one option you have is 13B, the King of Battle. Or 19D that would be a good MOS for you. 89D perhaps if a vacancy exists. All of which would get you much closer to the action you desire.
If it were me I would go 11B or 13B, maybe 19D or 89D. You would like those types of units more in my opinion. Artillery is pretty amazing.....
Last edited by Chaplain4me; March 28th, 2012 at 04:01 PM.
But considering location, the nearest non Headquarters Battery is three hours away. Wouldn't mind the 1 1/2 hour drive to the nearest Cavalry Squadron. Or 1 1/2 hour drive to the Chemical Company, or 1 1/2hour drive to the Sapper Company... but there is a Vertical Construction Company, and Brigade Troops Battalion, each approx 30 mins from where I currently reside.
As far as distances go, better options for beginning would be the ones nearby since I may be relocating north towards Anacortes. (or I may end up going south towards Seattle/Tacoma sometime next year)
It's also why I've been heavily looking towards the Vertical Construction Company, is because I have formal training/experience in Electrical, Plumbing, HVAC, Carpentry, Painting, Plastering, Cement Masonry, Equipment Operation (Excavator, Mini Excavator, Skid Steer, D5 Medium Bulldozer, and a small front loader) and experience/minor schooling in explosive measurement/calculations. (For reinforced concrete and non-reinforced to destroy it/clear it) Majority of my personal experience is towards Construction/Engineering fields. (But I also have experience working on vehicles)
I do agree that after reading what you've stated concerning 56M that it really may not be the MOS I'd want.
But I do have a question though, the Chaplain who resides in the same States ARNG as the two Combat Engineers, is having them go through an Assessment and Selection, apparently the Chaplain has 7 of 10 slots for Enlisted filled. If they are only supposed to have one Chaplain Assistant, why would they have to do an Assessment and Selection to reclass to 56M? And why would the Chaplain they are getting on board with be able to have 10? It makes no sense to me...
The Chaplain could be a Major or higher. A battalion 1LT or CPT would not make those types of decisions.
Plus if you were a 56M, your chaplain may say that he needs you across the state at a different company, since you'd serve an entire battalion. The geographicl area you serve would be very large, which means lots of driving.
I would say your friends are E4 or below since very rarely are the NCO positions vacant.
I still think you're confused. What the heck are you talking about "Assessment and selection"??? People just enlist as 56m, there is no testing for it or special process.
13B, 42A, 79T
RSP NCO: Jan 07-Apr 12
Operation Noble Eagle
So, last year I underwent a sort of revival of my faith and became close to God in ways I never imagined possible. I returned to my original game plan of pursuing my Masters in Marriage and Family therapy--which I've always wanted to specialize with military families. This got me started on a long roundabout way of doing things to get to where I am today.
I started to think that if I wanted to work specifically with that population, I should spend SOME time in the military myself. I didn't take myself seriously enough to be the Chaplain but to be honest, I've always wanted to be able to sport the cross on my uniform! I enlisted as an E-4 Chaplain's Assistant for the National Guard last July and left for Basic in Sept. By almost the end of January I had also completed AIT and graduated as a Chaplain Assistant. Once I got to my unit I became the lone Chaplain assistant with no Chaplain to assist! Spending time with my unit the past few months I have come to realize that maybe it's time I step it up and really go forth in this endeavor.
I'll admit, I've spent too much time trying to figure out where I fit in my unit since there's no Chaplain--I never felt like real leadership material, as far as teaching goes. But I keep finding myself in roles at church where I spend a whole lot of talking and have been asked to give "communion moments" and lead our Bible study on Sundays there. It's usually short enough notice that I don't have time to panic and try to back out of it. And I'm getting to the point now where it doesn't even phase me when I'm asked to step up because God's always shown up, even when I don't feel his presence as strongly going into speaking. I had a woman in my Bible study group that I was in charge of last weekend say she volunteered me to give the sermon some weekend (the service I currently go to is led by a couple of post-college (25 yr olds) who haven't gone to seminary but who are definitely led in ministry. The crazy thing is, I actually find myself hoping the opportunity comes.
I admit I am a little anxious to start this process with my unit. I wish I was a little braver at times, but the whole reason I joined the army in the first place is because I wanted to be able to serve those who serve and figured alongside them was the best way. We had a guy in our unit get killed in a domestic violence incident a week and a half ago. I feel like God is using this to really motivate me in bravery because our unit definitely needs the support right now. Especially with A.T. coming up soon. We had an E-7 who had taken on a sort of stand-in Chaplain role. Unfortunately he was only there one weekend that I had with my new unit and the next drill he was out processing. I think that means God is requiring me to go into this somewhat unknowingly of what to expect. lol
Anyway, I am putting the application together to get into seminary for a dual master's program in Divinity and Marriage and Family Therapy. I gather that I have to wait til I'm officially accepted into Seminary before I can really pursue figuring out what I have to do as far as the Army goes to become a Chaplain. Any thoughts as to what might ease this transition or how to go about it? Also, I'd like to see if I can find a Chaplain closer to where I live (I drill about 3 hours from my house... but I don't have a Chaplain right now either...) to see about talking to. Or just any useful suggestions in general?
Chaplain4Me--I admit, I've seen your postings on here at various points over the past year since I got ready to enlist and I was hoping to pursue some input since I've seen you post so frequently, and useful info nonetheless. lol