RSP needs to have more training and less standing around, there will be enough of that in BCT LOL.
RSP needs to have more training and less standing around, there will be enough of that in BCT LOL.
Last edited by JBuzz; April 10th, 2011 at 03:10 PM. Reason: incorrect statements
Be better than your peers.
"I repeat the question is not about my army values or anything but legal matters."
- Should never have been said.
Bring up your concerns at your AAR's (after action reviews), attempt to make a change instead of whining about it on an internet forum. Or, better yet, do as Squash suggested and work on your attitude. Make RSP do something for you. Don't worry about anyone else. Learn everything you can, because everyone who has actually been to BCT will tell you that having that leg up on the very basic knowledge RSP helps you with is never a bad thing. And RSP isn't the only thing you have to get prepared for BCT. You also have yourself. Push yourself on your own time, mentally and physically.
NVARNG - 31B
Welcome to the real world. Did you for some odd reason think that only the best of the best joined the military? In this day and age everyone who wants to go to school and not pay for it go in the national guard/reserves, not to mention (if you want bad), all the gang banger retards that join the military to further their ability to "Buss a cap." in other gang bangers...
The military is the same as any other large group. The make-up of your RSP is most likely a good reflection of the communities providing these people.
RSP is just like the rest of the military. It will be what you make of it. If you sit around refusing to learn you'll get nothing from it. And don't even try to tell me you've learned everything there is to know already. Get a hold of a skill level 1 book, a smart book, anything and study it in your down time. Do quick pt sessions, ask questions, be useful, earn the privilage to wear that uniform that you so casually disrespect, and make no mistake, that's exactly what you did. What have you done to help these people you see struggling?
And frankly, for some little private that doesn't know his butt from an OE254, your impression of "The Army" is so narrow and disrespectful to people MUCH better than you or I, that I'm trying very hard just to keep civil. LDRSHIP.. You don't even know what it means.
SPC Miller WIARNG
732nd CSSB Tomah WI
I second that one. RSP and the military in general is what you make of it. So if you're going to have a crappy attitude like that then that's exactly how your experience is going to be. Rather than disrespecting your fellow soldiers, as much as you may or may not like them, you should be helping them. Help them improve on their PT scores, give them the extra motivation while they're running. Never leave a soldier behind.
I would rather be in battle with one of those other soldiers by my side then one with your attitude. That's not going to get you anywhere.
It sounds like you need an attitude adjustment. The RSP is here to help you to insure you can complete BCT with flying colors. And your your being snappy with the E3's for being 'bossy' then you really need to get your priorities straight. Most of the time if they are of a higher paygrade, they earned it through their own sweat or inteligence. Yes, even if it is a wimsy E3 paygrade. And they are trying to be leaders because that exactly what you need a the RSP. If the Cadre appoint the E3's your bickering about as team/class leader they are trying to evaluate that soldier to see what he/she has to be a leader, so i wouldn't gripe about it. Overall, RSP is fun, prepares you for BCT and gives me ( and probably others) the sence of honor by being in the ARNG. I have been attending RSP for 10 months (had to finish my senior year, now im shipping soon) and i am no longer being paid for it, but i continue to go even though i was told im no longer needed to. The RSP itself is just, fun.
As for the other soldiers, I wasn't exactly welcomed with open arms my first drill by the Green Phase either. After I drilled a few times and they saw that I put in effort, they are like my friends now. They tell me stories from when they went to BCT, and they give me tip after tip. You have to give respect to recieve it. If you attended our RSP with your nose in the air like that, I'm sure you wouldn't be treated the best either.
I enjoy RSP. I feel like when I finally leave for BCT, I won't feel completely and totally out of place.
Disclaimer: I am not a recruiter and cannot guarantee the accuracy of my advice.
While I agree a lot with what the others have said, I won't stay on the bandwagon for this entire trip.
The OP is right to a point. Call me sympathetic if you will. I actually find it sort of comical when I see new recruits get warm fuzzies with their first RSP experience. Little do they know, they will be doing mostly the same stuff over and over and over and over again until they ship. Military time can be enjoyable and rewarding.....but it can also *****. And I am willing to bet many of their attitudes will change during that…which is perfectly understandable and I’ll explain why,.
Let’s start by summarizing what most units’ RSP training schedules consist of: Rank, Soldier’s Creed, Marching, military courtesies/customs, maybe some PT, etc.
So let's be honest here, you can teach almost all of that in a single MUTA 6, while still having time to do it repeatedly throughout the weekend. Four weeks later…what happens? You do it allover again. Repeat until you ship. You’d have to be a fool to think this will somehow appease most people if they have to do this for upwards of a year before shipping. (For the record, I shipped 16months after I enlisted as a junior in HS, with several months of what is now called RSP during that)
As a regular MOSQd soldier, would you not get a little tired of doing landnav, vehicle PMCS, equipment showdown and powerpoint presentations every drill? Literally….the SAME exact content every time, one weekend a month? Especially if you’re a young FNG with a bag full of goodies that your colorful recruiter has given you right?
Now, before you regular MDAY soldiers or fulltimers put on your HOOAH shirt and attempt to rip me a new one, I will acknowledge a few things. New guys especially should read this.
1. RSP is to prepare you for basic training primarily above all else. However….see #2.
2. Being non-MOSQd creates very limited training. There is no way around this. Until you have been properly trained as a soldier, you’re a great liability to your superiors around you with regards to legal and roster related reasons.
3. Every unit will have different SOPs and training outlines for their RSP units.
4. Some units incorporate some additional “fun” stuff to make RSP less dry. However, see #5.
5. Unit locations and access to outside resources can limit extracurricular training. This is especially true if you are located on a base…and those resources are shared.
Keep all this in mind. Remember that RSP is a different animal, just like boot camp is a different animal, just like your regular unit is a different animal just like active duty is a different animal. In the National Guard, they are all temporary phases (of various lengths) that you will experience.
Hope that helps clear up a few things. Give it time. Be motivated and professional during your time in RSP, even if it is boring. Another weekend down is one step closer to boot camp.
Last edited by SteveLord; April 8th, 2011 at 11:35 AM.
ARGH STEVELORD! WTF! .........
.... Actually, I agree with your post for the most part. Time and training is limited to the state and what the person has already learned. Frustration is normal with it. If you do the same thing over and over anyone will be frustrated. Everyone likes to say that his attitude needs adjustment, which may be partially true, but EVERYONE does the same thing eventually at some point. However, every person also has a point where they look at themselves and decides I'm going to wallow in self pity about it, or find a way to enjoy it. this is when you get the dumb games and "friends forever" guys. You latch onto each other and talk about how much it su-cks and how much you hate it. Then you do something hard and talk about how much that su-cked but it was fun after it was over. I HATE the gas chamber going through it, but you can bet I'm laughing at every person who goes though after me cause I know how it feels.
BUT- I will say if you see things jacked up about fellow Soldiers, you need to fix it. I don't care if you're an E-1 fuzzy correcting a COL because he has his Beret on wrong or something(Tactfully of course). You have an obligation to help your fellow buddies out. If you see someone is struggling with PT, help him/her. If they can't understand something, teach them. You get only what you give to the training. Once it gets repetative, you need to find ways to make it better. Teaching someone else always helps the cause, You're helping them learn, your reinforcing it on yourself, and showing others you are a leader.
XO, 250th F Co, NJARNG
Email Me for assistance!
Awesome response Steve. You basically summed everything up. I been in the military for so long and I constantly see things that I do not agree with it but as soldiers we adjust and recommend on how we can improve. Weekly, I have to attend repetitive safety briefs, weapons cleaning, meeting and calendar scrubs, ensure Motor Stables - PMCS (which my sergeants do), and the same reports and evaluations. JBUZZ was expecting some stuff he has seen in the movies but he needs to realize he will only see a narrow view of the military from his present rank. As you grow, move up in rank and responsibility and get increased responsibility (serving in higher echelons) will you understand the big picture.
Take time to settle and learn the basics and keep improving as a person and soldier. You talk about LDRSHIP (Army Values). Act like a leader and learn first to not gripe and keep your eyes open and mouth shut.
Served in Iraq, Afghanistan, Germany, Korea, Okinawa
Active-duty Army 23 Yrs of Service
In the days before the "RSP" newly enlisted soldiers went to thier units, and other than some in-processing paperwork they did nothing but sit around and watch everyone else do thier job, and train. They existed as gophers and got to sit in on classes, but could not do field training. Many new enlistees started not showing up to drill and failed to ship as they saw thier existance as unimportant - those that did this never became MOSQ and learned that they are an important part of the machine.
One facet of the current RSP existance is the previous. Now with that in mind, what does one expect - to be attending major training excercises? The program was developed to hit certain core areas, and yes in BCT these same areas will be hit over and over again (as this is BCT and it has always been part of the program). Is it a "leg up" on BCT attendance, possibly; does it have new recruits actively involved into the ARNG, yes; is the Active Duty component attempting a similar type of program with new enlistees waiting to ship (on some weeknights and for a few hours on some weekends), yes.
If someone has completed BCT is that a point of bragging rights? yes - does it make them or any E-3 on the street a fully competant leader? no. If you have concerns about your RSP experience you need to voice them - try to see if, from the bottom up, you can help to create an improvement in the program in your area. Also, do not expect to be learning an MOS or other high speed types of training in the RSP, that will happen later when you are a fully qualified soldier. Until then you should be happy that you are doing something other than sitting around or doing gopher work - but then again none of this may actually matter or sink-in until well after you have completed BCT and AIT (hindsight always being 20/20).
I certainly hope that BCT and AIT meet your standards for approval. If not, what you will need to do is simply get with the Senior Drill Sergeant (I would not even worry about the platoon level DS) and explain the issue, and how you think it should be improved. Then I do think you will see another side of the Army BCT program, and be an example to the rest of the trainees around you.
Last edited by LRSU_Dog; April 9th, 2011 at 11:30 PM.
Last edited by SteveLord; April 8th, 2011 at 04:25 PM.
Last two posts, LRSU Dog and SteveLord.... Epic Wins lol. I love it.
XO, 250th F Co, NJARNG
Email Me for assistance!
To the OP: You're not the only one with this problem lol I've been in RSP for 5 months and will be in for a lot more since I'm doing Split option.It does **** at times doing the same thing over and over again although our cadre do try to have us do different training every time for the most part it's the same repetitive stuff.
The best advice I can give with my limited experience is to just try and make the best of it.Like our Cadre say it's all about your attitude, you can either have a miserable experience at RSP or you can make every RSP drill enjoyable(or at least try your best to make it so lol)
"RSP, how can I explain it, I take it frame by frame it" (throwback).. RSP is good and bad in my opinion. You have to remember when training soldiers, that you have a mix of everything. Not all is on the same level or education or ability to learn the same way. The majority of people learn either literally or physically. Some can only learn by reading, and some can only learn by hands on. Thats why we have a disease called Death by Power Point. Next is not all individuals learn at the same speed. Also with the incredible turn over of individuals in RSP, its tough to teach advanced topics yet still hit the basics. RSP Cadre, have to check certain boxes of training, that are required. Look at it from the side of the soldier that is there for only 1 RSP drill.
Now look at it from the side of the soldier, that has to be there for multiple RSP drills. The monotonous repetition of the same thing will bore the feces right out of a sane person. This individual has to think outside the box. The instructors also get tired of teaching the same thing over and over, but somethings cant change due to turnover. Take some training on you own. Even if its just reading. Become familiar with 350-1. Maybe even bring it up to the Cadre (they are already aware of it), but take the time to see if they can work something different into next drill and maybe you can help instruct it. Remember that, work off blocks of time and it might not fit in the training schedule, but you never know. Plus it gives you different topics to look into, to break up the same ole, same ole.
Last edited by Phantom; April 10th, 2011 at 04:45 AM.
Wow...I leave town for a couple days and miss all the action of this thread.
A lot of good points from both sides in this thread. At my unit every September drill I take all the newly returned "green phase" and have a little pow wow. I talk to them about how they've now completed basic, but still have a journey ahead of them. I'm straight with them and let them know that they will be doing some of the same training in the next 9 months they are with me, but I encourage them not to get complacent. I also have them make a list right then of different training events they would like to do through out that next year. Of course some of it is off the wall things that we could never do, but I try to incorporate as much of it as I can into the training. I also let them know what I expect of them since they are now BCT grads. I compare them to seniors in HS and now they are the ones who are responsible for making sure the underclassmen know whats going on, but they are not above any of them. I let them know that I will be stricter on them and hold them to a higher standard, but I also try to add some other perks in it for them as well. Bottom line though, YOU have to make the best of your experience. That goes for every situation the army puts you in. Like it's been said, bring up ideas to your cadre. We are there to help you all, we dont mind if you let us know how we can better help you.
13B, 42A, 79T
RSP NCO: Jan 07-Apr 12
Operation Noble Eagle
RSP NCO--- That is actually a great thing to me. I just feel that most of the stuff done at my RSP is a complete waste of time. For example, we spent 6 hours doing movement stuff, and we only have like 20 people in our drill. We literally did the same exact thing the entire time. Then we marched, and thats about all we did this last drill. Oh wait I guess we did play flag football in the morning, and that was the fun part lol. But I believe this needs to be revised, we should either do that or start doing 1 day drills. My family knows what its like to not get much back on taxes and still only make enough money to survive, and I feel like we could cut so much spending if RSP was cut short. BCT teaches you everything to know. That is just my opinion though. I am motivated, we have a state wide drill this week which is gonna be legit, but I have mixed feelings about RSP drill. Thanks for the post.
Im glad someone agrees, I enjoy the fact that I am in the military. But man RSP is boring and a waste of time lol. I am really happy I only have 3 left. This week is a 3 day statewide one, so it will not be normal and will be fun. Then Next month I might skip and make up time helping my recruiter with some stuff. He said he might pull me out to help. But man I can't wait for the last one, it will be good to know that I am about to head to basic and I will never have to do the RSP stuff again... well I will once when I get back, but then Its off to my unit who is returning from Iraq. Thanks for the reply
‘’ RSP is boring and a waste of time…… 6 hours doing movement stuff’’
So if RSP is such a waste of time, perhaps, for one you could use some of your ‘wasted time’ learning that your ‘’movement stuff’’ is the U.S. Army Drill and Ceremonies. Refer to FM 3-21.5 for further information.
During Blue Phase at BCT, you will spend DAYS doing D&C, not just 6 hours, to prepare for graduation, so wouldn’t it maybe help to already know what you are doing, even if just to help others?
‘’I am motivated’’……. Um, no. The definition of MOTIVATION is:
1. the act or an instance of motivating
2. desire to do; interest or drive
THIS is definitely not an example of motivation. ‘’ …next month I might skip….’’
The mission of the Recruit Sustainment Program is to prepare non-prior service enlistees, for the physical and mental rigors of initial active duty for training (IADT); instill the seven army values in each warrior; reduce training pipeline losses; and verify warriors are administratively, mentally and physically prepared to meet shipping requirements.
What they teach you can give you a ‘leg up’ at Basic Training; many enlistees ship straight to BCT and have a difficult time trying to QUICKLY learn everything you are now being given the opportunity to learn now.
I am going to assume by your complacency that you have already memorized the entire rank structure, General Orders, phonetic alphabet, military time, Warriors Ethos, Code of Conduct & have maxed out your PT scores?? NO???? If not, then RSP is clearly not a waste of time and there is a lot you could be doing.
If you are not yet an E2, learning these things will get you promoted before attending BCT (Stripes for Skills) [See AR 600-8-19, Section 7-17 for more information] and I guarantee you will notice it in you paycheck. If you are already and E2 or an E3 and have everything down pat, than show some initiative and improve your leadership skills by assisting the enlistees who may not know it and actually want to improve and get a ‘leg up’ before BCT.
I just attended my second RSP but by my first and between my first and second, I took the initiative and have memorized everything I will need to memorize. Am I good to go? Not even close, I utilize what I DO KNOW to help others and soak up everything I DON’T know to help me give 110% 100% of the time at BCT.
‘’ it will be good to know that I am about to head to basic and I will never have to do the RSP stuff again...’’
At least for the people in MY RSP Company, after BCT you will return to RSP until AIT and not begin drilling with your assigned unit until MOSQ. For example, after I return from BCT, I will continue to go to RSP until I attend OCS and once I graduate, then I will begin drilling with my assigned unit. We have many that have returned from BCT and will keep drilling with US until they attend AIT, after that then they return for one more drill at which they are Out Processed.
Being motivated is not trying to ‘hurry up and be done with RSP’, its having the desire and interest to excel and do and be your best and at the very least, be motivated to motivate others.
It's not the will to win, but the will to prepare to win that makes the difference.
''It is the love of country that has lighted and that keeps glowing the holy fire of patriotism.''
RSP canbe boring. But if it was eliminated, wouldn't you be even more bored waiting X amount of months to ship? You also wouldn't be getting paid anything either. Myself and others have already explained why there are limitations.
Historically, the military seemed to work just fine prior to RSP. Soldiers still went and learned everything they needed. You don't learn how to shoot a rifle in RSP, but you still pick up and qualify with one in boot camp. I was apart of the program before it became official and I can't say it gave me some kind of advantage over anyone else. Ranks can be learned in a day, but the names of all those in charge of you at the BCT training site is even harder and you will be quizzed on more often. DnC is done so much that it's easy to learn eventually. We never recited a single creed until we got to Benning. No problems there. If an old timer would like to chime in with an opposing view of how the military was worse off before RSP, please do contribute that.
As far as some people on here pushing you to somehow train yourself, that isn't the answer. That defeats the purpose of RSP and having NCOs in charge of you. I honestly don't see how they can point the finger at you and not the leadership. Some on here are seriously...too quick to blame the OP (although the attitude from your original post certainly encourages that.)
Anyway, the Guard has to keep you interested. And the only way to do that, is via RSP...or have you sit on your butt at home instead. The latter will steer you away from the military more and can (obviously not always) make you more susceptible to failure since you'd be completely out of touch with the way the military operates.
One weekend a month is enough for some people...to be reminded that boot camp is coming and they need to be ready for it at least physically.
Bottom line, you have to go. If you "skip"...in addition to the possibility of being officially labeled AWOL, you will begin to earn the re****tion of an ate up shammer. There is no bigger thorn in a 1SG or CO's side than these types of people. It will stick with you for a very long time. And considering how valuable the First Sergeant is to you...it is not in your best interest.
Last edited by SteveLord; April 11th, 2011 at 04:12 PM.
Im talkin if they cut down RSP as a whole, it would use less money to do, not as many meals, etc. It would help with more tax breaks
I am doing BCT and AIT in one shot, no breaks in betweem
It wouldn't be skipping really, my recruiter said he is gonna pull me out to help him with some stuff. So it isn't AWOL. Thanks for the reply!
Last edited by SteveLord; April 11th, 2011 at 04:38 PM. Reason: Combined posts
I am doing BCT and AIT in one shot, no breaks in betweem