Missed BCT Ship Date - Facing Discharge?

[Acuna]

I was initially contracted through an SMP scholarship with the Guard. I attended the one and only instance of RSP drill before my BCT ship date. Between that time and said ship date —which was scheduled for Jan. 4— I was evicted from my home, had my phone account suspended, and was forced to [temporarily] relocate. I was able to build back up my finances and move back close to the area in which I was recruited, but did not notify any Guard representatives for a few weeks following my BCT ship date.

I was able to get word to my recruiter within a few weeks of my missed ship date, but was unable to get word to my RSP coordinator —I had lost his information when my phone account was closed— within the same time period.

Earlier today, my recruiter told me to call my RSP instructor and so I did. He subsequently informed me that he had submitted 3 discharge forms (he was unsure as to whether or not mine was included, though he was inclined to think so, due to the fact that I had not notified him of my situation in sufficient time). He told me to go ahead and call him tomorrow morning, so that he would have an opportunity to review my paperwork (in order to see if he had in fact submitted my discharge papers). He did not specify if anything could be done to rectify the situation.

Does anyone know if this situation can be mended? I am currently at a new residence and have not received any notification of discharge. However, if the paperwork was submitted on the part of my RSP instructor, does this mean that I am out of the Guard for good? If so, what sort of discharge is this? What does this mean in terms of my status as a cadet or potential recruit for other branches?

I would very much appreciate any information I could get on these questions.

Thanks in advance.

[HR NCO]

You most likely are discharged. I would have discharged you if you were in my RSP and tried to pull that. It will be an entry seperation discharge most likely for "refusal to ship" seeing as you failed to report in to ship. I wouldnt count on them working with you to try to help resolve your situation since you've already hosed them. You'd need a waiver to get back in.

[LRSU_Dog]

Although I cannot reply to what the outcome you are facing is in regards to your situation; one thing I wil lcomment on is how amazed I am at the fact that so many recruits/soldiers have an issue with keeping thier units informed of thier status - especially when things take a turn for the worse. If you are handling an issue from 04 January at this time... wow....

Aside from the fact that your unit has full-time staff that can provide guidance - there may be others in your unit who have dealt with the same issues, and have information or assistance that can help one through thiers...

I do not know how many times I have heard NCO's and Officers tell thier units/soldiers to keep them and the units infomraed of issues and status - so many let this go in one ear and out the other... and then something like this happens. Keeping your unit informed of your situation and changes to your situation is not some optional thing, it is a requirement...

Acuna, your best bet is to get into your RSP unit face to face if at all possible, bring and supporting documents that you might have showing your issues and outcome, and see if there is any possible way to salvage your situation. the unfortunate truth is this - with the ARNG being overstrength, not to mention budget cuts and possible downsizing of the Army that could trickle down to the ARNG ranks - those who fail to keep thier Chain-of-Command and units up-to-date and informed, as well as fail to show up to drills, training, etc will more than likely be cut in light of those who do meet the standards.

Best of luck.

[7011USMC]

I really wouldn't worry about joining another branch until you get your life straighten out. You'll probably receive a RE3 general discharge (ELS) and will need a wavier to reenlist; However, most recruiters may be a little reluctant to "get r done"....Good luck and I wish you well.

[Acuna]

RSP NCO:

I didn't "pull" anything. I understand that I have/had an obligation to fulfill that which was specified in my contract, but life happens. It's rather difficult to hold things together when you are married with two children and face the sort of financial hardships that happened assert themselves during inopportune times. I'm not some spoiled kid trying to take advantage of the situation; nor am I expecting the military to accommodate me in this. I am simply interested in knowing what to expect when I contact the necessary parties tomorrow.

LRSU_Dog:

Thanks for the information. I fully intend on seeing this issue through. I was unaware of the significance that RSP instructors played in this process, but my own ignorance is at fault insofar as that is concerned.

What sort of documents would you consider to be particularly pertinent in this matter?

7011USMC:

That makes sense. Thanks for the info.

[TxIntel 1978]

Right, ok.... life happens. Married with two kids. Wonder how many other SMs are in this situation?

Moving on.

[LRSU_Dog]

Well as RSP NCO pointed out in his post, there may be no issue left for you to see through. I can honestly say "been there, survived that" in regards to life going to h3ll - however what it comes down to is a phone call is a phone call if you are not able to get out in person to your unit or into a recruiting office - and there is no excuse - none at all. Your family would not have been affected by 5 to 15 minutes or more to take care of that.

If you have eviction notices, legal documents, etc that show what you were up against, and is verafiable - then that would be good. I do not post this to get your hopes up that all can be solved - the decision may have already been made for you. But if there is hope (such as you have not been seperated yet), then being honest, non-arguementative, with your hat in your hands in a face-to-face scenario would always be your best route.

As to being in the RSP - that is your unit as directed until you were to have completed training. The RSP Instructors and Staff are your Chain-of-Command - until a recruit ships to BCT and AIT thier importance and significance should be clear, not in question, and fully understood!

[Acuna]

jmclaughlin1701:

Being married and having dependents is not the problem; being married, with dependents, and college expenses, while being deprived of income is a **** of a problem. [That particular nuance is somewhat difficult to marginalize.] I'm not asking for empathy; only reasonable answers.

LRSU_Dog:

Well, the facts are evident to anyone presented with them —and I have all the necessary information to corroborate this. Naturally, the prospects of a 'general discharge' are somewhat daunting, but I was aware of many of these variables when I took the scholarship. My primary regret is having failed to understand the chain of command better, insofar as following through with the necessary protocols are concerned.

[LeftyMedic]

All I can do is shake my head. Some one old enough to be married and have 2 kids should have known better. No excuses. You took a oath and signed a contract. You went to a drill and didn't understand the chain of command? Seems like you didn't take this thing serious at all. And thats the last thing we need when peoples lives are on the line.

Good luck to you and your family.

[Ironhead]

jmclaughlin1701:

Being married and having dependents is not the problem; being married, with dependents, and college expenses, while being deprived of income is a **** of a problem. [That particular nuance is somewhat difficult to marginalize.] I'm not asking for empathy; only reasonable answers.

LRSU_Dog:

Well, the facts are evident to anyone presented with them —and I have all the necessary information to corroborate this. Naturally, the prospects of a 'general discharge' are somewhat daunting, but I was aware of many of these variables when I took the scholarship. My primary regret is having failed to understand the chain of command better, insofar as following through with the necessary protocols are concerned.

You gona have a hard time saleing. to them the fact you couldnt call them at least cell phone one thing but pay phone work to.

[SteveLord]

Not communicating with your chain of command is heavily frowned upon. Even more so in this age of technology.

[Mom's Mistake]

Not communicating with your chain of command is heavily frowned upon. Even more so in this age of technology.

That's a fact right there! If you can't call, text. If you can't text, email. If you can't email, send a letter. If you can't do that, find someone who can on your behalf. My unit is pretty uptight about keeping in communication. Even those who show up to drill late at no fault of their own get scolded for not having communicated of their situation prior to their arrival.

As well, I know sometimes things happen and you don't want to get your unit or the Guard involved. One of those "I'm an adult and I can take care of it myself." Trust me, I get into those situations too. But I did find out that at least notifying your chain of command of any hardships, even if you don't want their help or input, is better than nothing. I've found that their understanding of my circumstances has saved me from more headaches and actually helped me versus when I didn't notify them. I won't go into details on my life, but I wanted to make that point of that at least notifying your command is always a good thing.

[Phantom]

Phone Call, US Mail, Email, Visiting in Person, Text, Western Union, Tv/Radio Spot, Smoke Signals, Carrier Pigion, Paul Revere, that bird call Ace Ventura used... All of these were not available at the time, did you guys read that!! Maybe I missed something.

[Chief Kemosabe]

jmclaughlin1701:

Being married and having dependents is not the problem; being married, with dependents, and college expenses, while being deprived of income is a **** of a problem. [That particular nuance is somewhat difficult to marginalize.] I'm not asking for empathy; only reasonable answers.

LRSU_Dog:

Well, the facts are evident to anyone presented with them —and I have all the necessary information to corroborate this. Naturally, the prospects of a 'general discharge' are somewhat daunting, but I was aware of many of these variables when I took the scholarship. My primary regret is having failed to understand the chain of command better, insofar as following through with the necessary protocols are concerned.

Acuna, obviously the message you are receiving is not the fact that you had problems. We all can understand and relate to that but in the manner that you handled your military issue.

We know the recruiter or RSP NCO must have told you at some point if you had an issue or change in circumstances to let them know immediately. If something would have prevented you from shipping, you should have forewarned them. Not showing up to ship is the same as missing movement in the military. Meaning you suppose to leave at a certain time to deploy and you deliberately do not show and go.

If you did this at this level; how can the military expect you to act differently if you were an actual soldier?

Soldiers have problems daily but the ones who deal with their problems in a responsible manner are the ones that have the most support from their leadership. Not saying if a person totally messes up, he is ignored but leaders prefer to take care of adults not children.

[EOrsini]

I'm going to have to +1 fmcityslicker and Phantom on this one.

OP- BLUF- As leadership we ALL understand issues come up. It's the way YOU deal with those issues that makes us see the person inside. In todays day, there are an insane amount of ways to get in touch with people. You couldn't find a way to get in contact with anyone to let them know your situation? Think about it this way: If we were in combat and your weapon system went down and SPORTS didn't work, would that be a reasonable reason to stop trying other ways to get back into the fight? Something as small as not making a call or finding a way to inform leadership of the problems you had can translate to huge issues later on.

I know you are looking for help here, and the only thing we can all say is go to the RSP unit and figure it out with them. But if you are discharged, you can't blame anyone else but yourself. Leaderships job is to help you, but only when you meet them halfway

[Chief Kemosabe]

+1 to LT Orsini

Honestly, I did chuckle with Phantom's carrier pigeon comment.

[VICEROY06]

That's a fact right there! If you can't call, text. If you can't text, email. If you can't email, send a letter. If you can't do that, find someone who can on your behalf. My unit is pretty uptight about keeping in communication. Even those who show up to drill late at no fault of their own get scolded for not having communicated of their situation prior to their arrival.

Back when we were having snow storm spells, a specialist called to tell me the drill time was changed from 0645 to 0845. It sounded so fishy to me I immediately texted my NCO to confirm the change in time. She confirmed the change but I wasn't comfortable until she texted me back.

I don't know about other drill sites but at my site they have a big dry erase board posted at the entrance--A total count column, a total present column, the total late column, and an AWOL column. They ain't playin'.

I was researching my family tree in the basement of a public library when I stumbled upon military documents from the 1800's on one of my distant relatives. The guy was court marshalled and docked 3 months pay (a couple dollars) because he was caught asleep at his post. What a mortifying feeling to be known throughout eternity for being a fawk up? In defense of my family tree, though, everyone else had sense enough to retire with honor.

On a side note: A friend of a friend's son was late reporting back to base at Ft. (undisclosed location)--He had to cool his heals in detention for some undisclosed amount of time. Hey, people. The military ain't playin'. They make a detailed record of everything you do whether it's honorable or dishonorable no matter how insignificant.

[EOrsini]

I don't know about other drill sites but at my site they have a big dry erase board posted at the entrance--A total count column, a total present column, the total late column, and an AWOL column. They ain't playin'.

Yeaaa buddy! lol. We have the Red One reports, and we sit in the office for upwards of an hour getting accountability for every single soldier. AWOLs, SUTAs, Late Soldiers, and Present are all marked and noted. (As a side note, I'm trying to create a spreadsheet to make it less time consuming. If anyone else is sitting in their offices working on these Red Ones for extended periods of time PM me and when I finish the spreadsheet I'll email it to you)

[Chief Kemosabe]

LT,

Are these red reports similar to regular PERSTAT ones?

[EOrsini]

LT,

Are these red reports similar to regular PERSTAT ones?

Ummm, I would assume so. Its the initial report sent up Sat morning (or fri night depending on MUTA) tracking all Soldiers. It used to only be for Present and AWOL, but it has gotten to be more than that due to the suicide rate, SUTA's and such. Currently they(at least the units I've been in or sat in on meetings) have an exel spread sheet and go down the list with every name. However the lists normally include people we have never seen yet due to being in BCT/AIT, newly attached soldiers and such. So it's a long meeting trying to figure out who is where and why. It's absurd. Is it similar Sir?

[Chief Kemosabe]

Those reports are done in a deployed environment and it sounded the same. The bottom line is that it is about accountability. I just seen so many staff officers re-invent the wheel at times; that is why i was asking.

[HR NCO]

If it's anything similar to a PERSTAT then I have a year's worth of them I could send ya, lol.

[EOrsini]

Those reports are done in a deployed environment and it sounded the same. The bottom line is that it is about accountability. I just seen so many staff officers re-invent the wheel at times; that is why i was asking.

Yea, LRSU dog was just talking to me about it in a PM too and I was telling him how I sit there baffled. It's just absurd to me how higher ups sit there and actually go through every name like that. There is DEF an easier way, and the way its being done is a waste of the already limited man hours we have.

If it's anything similar to a PERSTAT then I have a year's worth of them I could send ya, lol.

lol, no thank you! I already want to stab out my eyes from all of them I have

[LRSU_Dog]

I just seen so many staff officers re-invent the wheel at times

Everyone knows that a wheel can be made "more round, especially when planned in conjunction with a flex capacitor...

Back to subject, sort of: The use of initial counselling can help to keep this [accountabilty, commo, etc] from being a problem. During initial counselling I use a seperate sheet for Unit/Team standards, physical readiness and H/W, and drug policy (I am also a UPL) - not to create a mountain of paperwork, but the 3 counsellings recieved at that time cover the broad range of standards and requiremements and what will happen if these are not met. It also allows me to counsel the soldier without having one stacked convoluded sheet.

Commo and accountability are key apsects - and as I use all the blocks on the sheet (back and front) I work to ensure there are few if any missed points. Aside from this I also, as a leader, make a point that I will also keep in contact with the soldier (other than just a call the week of drill) but spell out the soldiers responsibilities.

Otherwise... there will be Smoke on the Water...

[alphamikefoxtrot]

If the thought 'should I talk to my RSP / Cadre about 'insert life change here' happening' goes thru your head whatsoever then you should DO IT - there's no such thing as overcommunicating in that circumstance. Don't be a d u m m y.