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  • #16
    Re: Questions about Marine mentality to National Guard.

    Originally posted by Chief Kemosabe View Post
    But we should buy this garbage???? lol

    I get the sense that everyone was jumping for joy during the CoC.
    Been drinking tonight? Probably should just go to bed now.....

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Questions about Marine mentality to National Guard.

      Originally posted by TxIntel 1978 View Post
      No doubt the whole responsibility/pay thing is a mess for the poor CPL, but the fact is they're still an NCO. Maybe we're the exception, but I wouldn't tolerate a JR enlisted talking back to a CPL or disrespecting them.

      Commanding as a 2LT isn't as far fetched as you make it. We routinely have O-2s filling CO spots permanently and an O-1 stepping in fairly often when the BN goat-rope calls away the CO/1SG. I have had far more command time in the NG than any of my O-1 peers who are stuck doing A/S-2 BS duties on AD.
      Well, it is if we're talking more than just the few hours the actual commander is absent. But the point is that the 2LT rank is up there if we're talking about individuals not taken seriously just based on their rank alone. 2LT is one of them, as not all of them are experienced soldiers or leaders. Not to say it's right, but it does happen enough.

      And 1LTs are not uncommon as commanders. Shoot half of mine have been.


      Marines are always welcome to the Guard. Just remember that you're transitioning into a group of part-time soldiers. Things will seem a lot more relaxed, but it doesn't necessarily mean they are inefficient. You may not see everyone leap to their feat or snap to parade rest when the 1SG is nearby, but you also won't see them calling him "bro" either.
      Last edited by SteveLord; May 22nd, 2013, 11:40 PM.

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      • #18
        Re: Questions about Marine mentality to National Guard.

        Originally posted by SteveLord View Post
        Well, it is if we're talking more than just the few hours the actual commander is absent. But the point is that the 2LT rank is up there if we're talking about individuals not taken seriously just based on their rank alone. 2LT is one of them, as not all of them are experienced soldiers or leaders. Not to say it's right, but it does happen enough.

        And 1LTs are not uncommon as commanders. Shoot half of mine have been.
        I've heard just about every butterbar joke out there and I shrug it off. About the only ones who make the jokes anymore are those who feel insecure about their own position, who's career is built on trying to hinder others or are just d-bags.

        It seems that I've bee very fortunate to be in environment where I've been permitted to run entire IDT weekends for my company on several occasions. The training and experience has been invaluable.

        Someone once said that it's better to be a proficient LT than a crappy CPT.... I would have to agree.

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        • #19
          Re: Questions about Marine mentality to National Guard.

          Originally posted by TxIntel 1978 View Post
          I've heard just about every butterbar joke out there and I shrug it off. About the only ones who make the jokes anymore are those who feel insecure about their own position, who's career is built on trying to hinder others or are just d-bags.
          Or the jealous ones that know they don't have the ability or will to become a 2LT.

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          • #20
            Re: Questions about Marine mentality to National Guard.

            Originally posted by TxIntel 1978 View Post
            I've heard just about every butterbar joke out there and I shrug it off. About the only ones who make the jokes anymore are those who feel insecure about their own position, who's career is built on trying to hinder others or are just d-bags.

            It seems that I've bee very fortunate to be in environment where I've been permitted to run entire IDT weekends for my company on several occasions. The training and experience has been invaluable.

            Someone once said that it's better to be a proficient LT than a crappy CPT.... I would have to agree.
            It's not jokes about the rank so much as it is the perceived lack of experience associated with having to work with a new officer and/or young officer. Again, same thing applies with the corporal. Difference is the 2LT actually has purpose (ya know, do everything the platoon sergeant says and just look pretty! ) and is on a separate pay grade.

            Anyway, I think we've given enough info and then some on the subject of Marines in the Guard.
            Last edited by SteveLord; May 23rd, 2013, 03:15 PM.

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            • #21
              Re: Questions about Marine mentality to National Guard.

              Originally posted by USMCLong View Post
              Thank you both for the responses. I'm not trying to bring the Corps to the NG, nor do I expect to be a game changer in my unit, more or less just curious if the horror stories my buddies have told me after they crossed over have any truth!
              Don't worry, everyone will know you are a former Marine when they see the USMC tattoo on your arm.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Questions about Marine mentality to National Guard.

                Originally posted by RedLeg View Post
                The NG is no better/worse then the Marines, just different.
                This conversation has become ridiculous. Speaking in broad generalities like this is pointless because the real issue isn't how the NG "in general" compares to the USMC "in general," but rather how the specific unit the OP is considering joining compares to the unit he's coming from in the USMC. The mentality in NG units varies tremendously. If you were to compare a quartermaster NG unit to a Special Forces NG unit you might notice a difference in mentality.

                OP, the egos have hijacked your question. Sorry for that. I would target your question to a few specific units you are considering joining. There are definitely NG units that demand performance and discipline, and there are some where having a pulse gets you extra credit. If you aren't opposed to spending a long period of time on active duty for training, you might also want to consider Special Forces within the NG. There is an entire subforum here dedicated to SF with lots of valuable information (I am currently in the SF pipeline myself so I can try to answer some of your questions, although SF Hunter is the authority on the subject).

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Questions about Marine mentality to National Guard.

                  Originally posted by Mike2K View Post
                  Don't worry, everyone will know you are a former Marine when they see the USMC tattoo on your arm.
                  I got one but do all Marines have one? lol

                  7011USMC does not haha
                  Last edited by Chief Kemosabe; May 23rd, 2013, 08:13 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Questions about Marine mentality to National Guard.

                    Originally posted by Mike2K View Post
                    Don't worry, everyone will know you are a former Marine when they see the USMC tattoo on your arm.
                    Or the decal on the truck window? Standard issue ya know.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Questions about Marine mentality to National Guard.

                      Originally posted by Mike2K View Post
                      Don't worry, everyone will know you are a former Marine when they see the USMC tattoo on your arm.
                      That's funny!

                      Originally posted by Chief Kemosabe View Post
                      I got one but do all Marines have one? lol

                      7011USMC does not haha
                      No moto tat for me either. No tattoos at all actually.


                      On the Marine to Guard issue:

                      I'm active duty aircrew coming from a reserve C-130 squadron heading to the Guard. As stated above, I think it all depends on your mentality. Our community as a whole is fairly laid back. I have been on other Marine bases and know that I could have never been ground side. Professionalism is one thing, taking yourself too seriously and being self-important are another thing entirely.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Questions about Marine mentality to National Guard.

                        WOW this blew up quick.

                        I'll try to hit on a few things... I agree that Specialist should be done away with. I would hate to be a CPL getting paid the same as someone with less responsibilities. I've already had to take the ego shot to the face being told I'll be starting as a specialist, even though I know it's the right step (as long as the rank exists). I guess my first goal after my schools will be to work on getting SGT.

                        My recruiter, a prior Marine, pressed my receiving CO and got Air Assault added to my contract, pretty excited about that. I have no problems going AD for schools, in fact I hope I spend more time activated than not. The only reason I'm not going AD is A) there's no spots open for cross-training, and B) I'm halfway through college and want to finish before I go back in completely.

                        I don't have a moto tat, I don't know if I'll ever have one. There is a decal on my truck though, and every truck I ever get will have a USMC decal on it. Once I feel like I'm "in" the NG I'll get a sticker for that, too.

                        Looks like a lot of differences in opinion here, and you can clearly see who the prior Marines are and the officer vs enlisted mentality is strong in this thread...

                        I didn't mean to start a war between anyone, just wanted some general insight from people who've done it. One of the reasons I got out the Corps was I was tired of mass punishment and extreme attention to details that don't matter while letting things that should matter get swept under the rug.

                        I think the NG will be a decent place for me to be for the next few years while I decide where to go from there.

                        Thanks for all the replies everyone.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Questions about Marine mentality to National Guard.

                          Originally posted by USMCLong View Post
                          One of the reasons I got out the Corps was I was tired of mass punishment and extreme attention to details that don't matter while letting things that should matter get swept under the rug.
                          You hit the nail on the head right there.
                          Last edited by Mike2K; May 24th, 2013, 12:45 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Questions about Marine mentality to National Guard.

                            I'll try to hit on a few things... I agree that Specialist should be done away with. I would hate to be a CPL getting paid the same as someone with less responsibilities. I've already had to take the ego shot to the face being told I'll be starting as a specialist, even though I know it's the right step (as long as the rank exists). I guess my first goal after my schools will be to work on getting SGT.

                            Usually, the SPC has just as much responsibility as the CPL. This is where the Army and Marines differ. The Army will promote to E-4 automatically vs the Marines in which you're trying for points. In the Army, a CPL is an NCO but does not rate an NCOER nor is it a permanent rank. The person who is CPL may very well not be the senior E-4 in regards to TIS/TIG or promotion points. There is no regs that require an E-4 who is in a leadership position to be promoted a CPL. The Army uses the CPL very inconsistent and haphazard. So in reality, the rank of CPL becomes more of an honorific.

                            Its things like this when I referred to earlier that it’s not better/worse than the Marines, just different.

                            You really need to check with your recruiter/unit to see if they can get you into the MOS Q school as well. The unit is required to get you the school seat, unlike MEPS when you first enlisted.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Questions about Marine mentality to National Guard.

                              I was reclassing with a guy that was an AD CPL. Other people in the class tried to make a big deal of his rank. But even he, himself, could have cared less about his rank. He worked like a dog and got his E5 a few months later. I've been to six bases and gone through three units and I've only seen two CPL's. One at Ft. Benning and the guy I was with at the Navy Construction Battalion Center in Gulfport.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Questions about Marine mentality to National Guard.

                                Its different (common statement, right?).

                                I’ve got a really short tenure rope in the Guard so my observations are new, but they’re fresh. So here’s some counsel to respond to your initial question regarding mentality shift. Have an open mind, and be open for change. You will initially only know Marine language, acronyms, nomenclature, close order drill, admin and a million other things, in which case almost everything will appear different. Nevertheless, there are many similarities. Remember those when found because they will make it easier for you to acclimate.

                                The paradigm shift is on you……. The Guard was here well before you and will be here after you are gone. The Guard is not the Marine Corps, so stow it at the front hatch (provided in Marine speak). Everyone in your joining unit will know you were in the Marines, and to differ slightly with other posters, they do indeed want to know how you did it in the Marines. What they don’t want is you jamming it down their throats. If they want to, they will ask you how it was done in due time. And in such cases, a humble, direct answer is preferred.

                                As former Marines we bring a lot of experience to the Guard. These are valuable and important. Some experiences fit, some do not fit (don’t force the ones that don’t fit). A newly minted W1 in my unit was a prior enlisted Marine and gave me good info on “how to make friends and influence people in the Guard” during my initial drills. And even with that I had to “adjust my alignment” continuously. But I’m sure the same issues exist inter-Guard with Unit transfers.

                                Just keep an open mind that from your perspective things are done differently, and that does not mean that they are incorrect. They’re just different from your perspective that’s all. Change is good Devil Dog….. You’ll like the Guard. And yes I have a USMC sticker and an ARMY sticker on my truck.

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