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  • Record APFT retake question for a junior enlisted

    Hello All, I have moved to the Reserves since last time I have been on the forums, but have a quick question from the NG side of the house.

    Regarding the Record APFT, If a CDR asked for a RECORD APFT one month and a soldier failed the run, and sit-ups, the asked for another RECORD APFT in two more weeks and the same soldier failed only the sit-ups by lets say for example, three sit-ups. If the soldier asked the CDR the next day to be allowed another chance to take the APFT in a week or less, because of vast improvement and gave their word to pass, would the CDR be just to allow the soldier that chance. The REGs state in a " gray " area that the RECORD APFT may be given as many times as requested as long as the Soldier and CDR felt the soldier was ready. Also the REGs state that if two RECORD APFTs are given per year these must be spaced by four months. So technically I don't know if the CDR can tell the soldier they only had two chances and that was it before indefinate seperation. I have seen seperations stop in the Guard if a Soldier wished to take an APFT everyday, on their time as long as they showed improvement and eventually pass. This question pertains to a Soldier that was FLAGGED upon the intial RECORD fail and then after the second fail not allowed to retake the RECORD APFT as the CDR stated he/she only had two chances. So ultimately the Soldier's ETS date is approaching and he/she has no choice but not to reenlist.

    Should the Commander allow the Soldier to retake the test before his/her ETS, as the Soldier is confident they will pass, or not allow and force the Soldier to not reenlist?

    What are your thoughts as the REGs are very obscure in this area.

    Great to be talking to GUARD side of the house again! Were I spent 17 years


  • #2
    Originally posted by BlitzGS430 View Post
    Hello All, I have moved to the Reserves since last time I have been on the forums, but have a quick question from the NG side of the house.

    Regarding the Record APFT, If a CDR asked for a RECORD APFT one month and a soldier failed the run, and sit-ups, the asked for another RECORD APFT in two more weeks and the same soldier failed only the sit-ups by lets say for example, three sit-ups. If the soldier asked the CDR the next day to be allowed another chance to take the APFT in a week or less, because of vast improvement and gave their word to pass, would the CDR be just to allow the soldier that chance. The REGs state in a " gray " area that the RECORD APFT may be given as many times as requested as long as the Soldier and CDR felt the soldier was ready. Also the REGs state that if two RECORD APFTs are given per year these must be spaced by four months. So technically I don't know if the CDR can tell the soldier they only had two chances and that was it before indefinate seperation. I have seen seperations stop in the Guard if a Soldier wished to take an APFT everyday, on their time as long as they showed improvement and eventually pass. This question pertains to a Soldier that was FLAGGED upon the intial RECORD fail and then after the second fail not allowed to retake the RECORD APFT as the CDR stated he/she only had two chances. So ultimately the Soldier's ETS date is approaching and he/she has no choice but not to reenlist.

    Should the Commander allow the Soldier to retake the test before his/her ETS, as the Soldier is confident they will pass, or not allow and force the Soldier to not reenlist?

    What are your thoughts as the REGs are very obscure in this area.

    Great to be talking to GUARD side of the house again! Were I spent 17 years

    The commander is required to intitiane a separation after two failed record tests, assuming those two record tests are in accordance with the FM for training that dictates when the test whould be given. It is not up to the commander on if the soldier is retained or not, it is up to the separation authority which is the TAG. The commander has no choice other that to initiate IF the tests where both properly scheduled record tests, although they frequently do not intiate the action. Additionally, a bar can be put in place to prevent reenlistment.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you for your reply. I am just curious about the regulation gray area. If two record PT test are given in a year, would it be correct to say that there should be a four month " gap " between the two Record PT test? In other words if the CDR gave two Record PT test within a two week time frame, would that not fall out of the stated Regulation. The way I read into is that the CDR has the descretion to give a Record PT test any time if he/she and the Soldier feel the Soldier is ready. Although if only two for Record PT test are administered there ( should ) be a four month gap. This is a very obscure reg. for some; myself included..

      Comment


      • #4
        The reg is not obscure, it just appears that way because up until recently it hasn't been enforced. Also the other grey area is TPU Soldiers by reg are only required one record APFT a year.

        To answer your question, 4 months must separate two record APFTs. Like you said, they can be sooner but only if both the SM and the commander agree. Failure after two or more, and the commander has to start separation paperwork. Just because the commander starts the paperwork doesn't mean it will go through. If the SM was to pass, they most likely would be retained. What you might also call "grey" area, are the separation packets complete and will be JAG/S-1 approval, do all intermediate commands approve to the separation authority. Historically, it's just been easier to flag/bar to re-enlistment.

        Comment


        • #5
          Kicking soldiers out for consecutive failures isn't that hard any more. Several other commanders in my BN have had NO issues doing it. They just have to work a little harder at R&R as a result of pushing people out.

          just put in place a new PT policy at the company: Diagnostic tests in Jan / July, Record in April / October. We have a test every quarter and the soldiers have the options to request one at any time, which we will administer so long as the training schedule will allow it. I tested all my APFT failures (from 8/2013, last PT test) in January. Full unit will test in April, and failures will take the July diagnostic.

          Felt like moving this way made the test cycles predictable and easier to manage by setting it in the training calendar this way. Additionally, there are multiple opportunities per year for soldiers to test for schools, promotion points, etc. This will also greatly help me manage unit strength by reducing the amount of time it takes to separate soldiers that don't want to get with the program.

          In my state, the AG has supported commanders in so much as if a separation packet goes up from the unit, it will be processed.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks for answering. I think alot of what got our Soldiers off course was the sequestration where soldiers prepared, then Drill ( Battle Assembly in Reserves ) was cancelled, then the PT Test was scheduled, then cancelled and so fourth. So dealing with a lot of unexpected failures, although Soldiers are expected to remain capable at all times.

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