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  • Another Saluting Thread

    So here is my dilemma. I am an O2 and was walking down the sidewalk in a gaggle with a new O3, another O2, and an E5. Approaching us was another O3 who had a bag in each hand. Now as she approached, I rendered a quick salute, said afternoon ma'am, and of course did not expect a return salute as she was carrying things. Now, the other O2 I was with said rather rudely, "do you not see you already have a captain with you?" and the O3 we were with agreed saying I should not have saluted. Additionally, I was chastised by both for rendering a salute to the O3 carrying bags saying, "that was a complete dick move."

    Now, I have always been taught that when walking in a non formation, you salute anyone that outranks you even if you are walking with someone of equal or higher rank. I know the regs do not discuss this in specific do what is ya'lls take on it?

    To the 2nd part, is it appropriate to salute an officer of higher rank even if they have their hands full? I know the regs say it is not "required", but that doesn't mean it cannot be rendered. So was it a "dick move"? For the record, I wasn't meaning for it to be. Just trying to do as I was taught.

  • #2
    Re: Another Saluting Thread

    Originally posted by Eagle1 Fox2 View Post
    Now, I have always been taught that when walking in a non formation, you salute anyone that outranks you even if you are walking with someone of equal or higher rank.

    To the 2nd part, is it appropriate to salute an officer of higher rank even if they have their hands full? I know the regs say it is not "required", but that doesn't mean it cannot be rendered. So was it a "dick move"? For the record, I wasn't meaning for it to be. Just trying to do as I was taught.
    I have never heard of (what you have been taught......and by whom??), but I will run and grab my manual in a minute. WHY would you have saluted someone in another group if you have the HIGHEST ranking officer in YOUR group? I anticipate you would have caught some serious flack for that as well.......

    On the second, I would concur with the group and I believe it IS mentioned in the 'regs' regarding saluting, but again I will check.

    OK.......I could not find my D&C manual but I pulled my Army Officers Guide and it clearly states under Heritage, Customs, and Courtesies of the Army under When NOT TO Salute:

    * "When carrying articles with both hands, or otherwise so occupied as to make saluting impractical."* The GREETING of the day is encouraged....

    I do not see a specific paragraph covering the first issue, but I do know it is a courtesy granted to the more senior officer and since you were already with an O3, a simple greeting of the day would have been more appropriate.
    Last edited by Chris36; December 5th, 2012, 06:51 AM.

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    • #3
      Re: Another Saluting Thread

      This topic has come up before and there's never been a clear answer. I've seen both done.

      Soldier walking with an O3 gives the greeting of the day to a passing O3 but doesn't salute. Then I've seen a Soldier with an O3 salute a passing O3 and give the greeting of the day.

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      • #4
        Re: Another Saluting Thread

        I'm going to put this very blunt, don't take it the wrong way because I understand you're learning just like how I was learning.

        I believe you didn't do the right thing. I am in a Division HQ (with 6-10 full birds and 3 GOs) and being AGR, I'm usually in the mix with them. Never have I salute anyone that ranked lower than them and never have I been chewed out for it. I greet them like normal though.

        As far as a "dick move", I don't believe it was. If you were alone and were to salute the Captain with her hands full, she render one back. What I always do (and never get chewed out for it) is salute and greet. When they greet back, I drop the salute and move on. Better safe than sorry.

        Sounds like another, "Damn Lieutenants" issue

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        • #5
          Re: Another Saluting Thread

          I have posted about this before. I practice exactly what you did, although I have been griped at for going both ways on this debate. There is no clear cut answer to this it the regs, but using common sense and inference of other rules I do believe your approach is the closest to the correct approach that can be rationalized.

          I have had high speeds tell me it isn't in the regulation so don't do it....to which I respond "well neither are no salute areas or general officer only salute areas". I have been in units that practiced the salute everyone always custom. And I have been in units, and am currently in one now that seems to practice the respect the most senior person type theory. It is really comical to watch a group of four approach another group of four and watch the ridiculous volley of salutes that occur, and it just seems to be more oragnized to salute the senior, and he salutes back...too easy.

          I'll repeat that you can stop looking in regulations for the answer, these crazy type situation are not discussed and all it states is to "salute all those who are entitled a salute"....but just what does that mean.

          While searching everywhere, the only thing I found was other people with the same question (much like this thread), I found this posting below made by a LT somewhere which is articulated well and outlines the confusion......

          I am looking for an answer to this question myself, but have not yet found anything authoritative. So I'll share what makes sense to me (and what was taught to me in the early days of my Army career).
          When a salute is rendered to a group of officers of mixed ranks, it is the senior officer in that group who is officially the target/recipient of the salute. While that doesn't settle the question of who returns the salute, it suggests that it may be either optional or inappropriate for the other officers to return the salute.

          Consider a party of two, a lieutenant and a major, encountering another party of two, a captain and a lieutenant colonel. It would seem most natural that the lieutenant and major salute the lieutenant colonel. But it would seem inappropriate for the captain to return the salute rendered by the approaching party, inasmuch as that group salute included one rendered by an officer senior to him. When observing just such an encounter, one occasionally witnesses an awkward (not to mention confused) back-and-forth volley of salutes: the lieutenant saluting the captain and lieutenant colonel, the captain responding and simultaneously saluting the major (who is already in the act of trying to salute the lieutenant colonel, but now struggles to figure out whether/how to respond to the captain's salute), the major saluting the lieutenant colonel, and the lieutenant colonel responding.

          It would seem that the easiest solution would be that all members of a party encountering another party containing a senior officer would render a salute. Only the senior officer of the receiving party would return the salute.
          To further bolster this suggestion, consider what an officer should do when accompanying a senior officer and then encountering another officer of the same rank as the senior. For clarity, I'll specify that a captain is walking with a major. They approach another major. Clearly, the two majors do not exchange salutes. But if the captain salutes the approaching major, he is effectively disengaging from the major he is already escorting in order to acknowledge another officer whose rank is no higher than the one he is already escorting. This seems inappropriate.

          As a platoon leader, I was once outdoors with a number of soldiers in my platoon when another lieutenant approached. A well-intended, but unobservant sergeant in the party I was attending to called the group to attention and saluted the approaching lieutenant. Naturally, I responded with something like "Am I not really here, or what?", indicating that he had just taken the attention of my group away from me in order to acknowledge an officer of equivalent rank. Clearly, this was inappropriate.
          This would explain why one accompanying a senior officer need only salute officers senior to both of them, and not all officer senior to him. If we apply a similar approach, I think we find grounds for suggesting that when a group of mixed rank officers is saluted, only the senior responds.

          Unfortunately, I think that few servicemen are reflective enough to realize this. Instead, withholding a salute can leave them wondering what is wrong with the junior officer that he didn't return the salute. So propriety aside, it may still be worth returning a salute. Beyond being just a show of deference or respect, a salute is also a greeting exchanged between comrades in arms. Given that, we might welcome the opportunity to participate in an exchange of salutes.
          As a commissioned officer, myself, a first lt., I was always taught that the salute is a recognition of rank, not the individual, and common military courtesy requires that all salutes be returned by all officers to those doing the saluting.

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          • #6
            Re: Another Saluting Thread

            Somone approve my post.

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            • #7
              Re: Another Saluting Thread

              Man, all that work in to that post...it'd be ashame if it wasn't approved.....................



              Now that I read it, it wasn't that much work.

              However, I agree 100% with that prior LT
              Last edited by Mr_Loki; December 5th, 2012, 08:27 AM.

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              • #8
                Re: Another Saluting Thread

                When in doubt whip it out......you did the right thing.

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                • #9
                  Re: Another Saluting Thread

                  Originally posted by Chaplain4me View Post
                  When in doubt whip it out......you did the right thing.
                  Thats what everyone wants to say, but when you worked at a three star level command there is brass walking in groups everywhere. The back and fourth volleys of salutes looks absolutley ridiculous. When is doubt, be able to justify your actions rationally.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Another Saluting Thread

                    Originally posted by Mr_Loki View Post
                    Man, all that work in to that post...it'd be ashame if it wasn't approved.....................



                    Now that I read it, it wasn't that much work.

                    However, I agree 100% with that prior LT
                    It was a copy and paste, I've posted it before....which LT you refering to?

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                    • #11
                      Re: Another Saluting Thread

                      Well at least you didn't salute with the left arm inside a building... *quietly slips out the back door*

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                      • #12
                        Re: Another Saluting Thread

                        Originally posted by ParalegalNCO1 View Post
                        Thats what everyone wants to say, but when you worked at a three star level command there is brass walking in groups everywhere. The back and fourth volleys of salutes looks absolutley ridiculous. When is doubt, be able to justify your actions rationally.
                        Your inability to hermeneutically interpret the genre of a proverb stems from your legal background.....

                        Slam dunk from the foul line.....I'm still way behind.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Another Saluting Thread

                          Originally posted by Polo08816 View Post
                          Well at least you didn't salute with the left arm inside a building... *quietly slips out the back door*
                          Pop quiz on saluting......when is it appropriate to salute with your left hand?

                          I did it once, properly, and got griped at for that too.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Another Saluting Thread

                            Originally posted by ParalegalNCO1 View Post
                            It was a copy and paste, I've posted it before....which LT you refering to?
                            Originally posted by ParalegalNCO1 View Post
                            While searching everywhere, the only thing I found was other people with the same question (much like this thread), I found this posting below made by a LT somewhere which is articulated well and outlines the confusion......
                            This one.

                            edit: I didn't intend to type prior, it's the morning talking.

                            Originally posted by Chaplain4me
                            Your inability to hermeneutically interpret the genre of a proverb stems from your legal background.....
                            Holy thesaurus batman.
                            Last edited by Mr_Loki; December 5th, 2012, 08:53 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Another Saluting Thread

                              Originally posted by ParalegalNCO1 View Post
                              Pop quiz on saluting......when is it appropriate to salute with your left hand?

                              I did it once, properly, and got griped at for that too.
                              Isn't it something ceremonial like sling arms?

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