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  • #31
    Re: 1LT Promotion to CPT//APFT?

    LT,

    It is my fault that the thread went off-topic. Funny, you responded with that because a 1SG that I know did not make the SGM list and I told him about what happened and he wrote that his feelings about not getting selected is minimalized by the deaths over here.

    I should have created a new thread but I dont like those names to be visible because some loved one can be affected by seeing those names spread out on the internet.

    Good luck and when do you re-deploy? I have 3.5 to go.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: 1LT Promotion to CPT//APFT?

      Originally posted by fmcityslicker View Post
      LT,

      It is my fault that the thread went off-topic. Funny, you responded with that because a 1SG that I know did not make the SGM list and I told him about what happened and he wrote that his feelings about not getting selected is minimalized by the deaths over here.

      I should have created a new thread but I dont like those names to be visible because some loved one can be affected by seeing those names spread out on the internet.

      Good luck and when do you re-deploy? I have 3.5 to go.
      Helps to keep things in perspective. Will that 1SG have another opportunity to make the SGM list? (Is that like, for Officers = 2 times passed over, and you're done? ...or is the 1SG/E-8 to SGM jump one where a Soldier gets unlimited opportunities, or something like that?

      Re-deployment? I can't give exact dates, for obvious reasons (OPSEC), but, my bags are all packed here in Kuwait. Our RIP/TOA ceremony was had a few days ago, and all EOT awards have been given out. Shouldn't be much longer until we are stateside again. Fort Hood, here we come.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: 1LT Promotion to CPT//APFT?

        Well their RCP dates takes them over retirement years but with the QMP changes and promotion stagnation rules; I will say that compares to when officers are passed over.

        Here is the link

        http://www.ncosupport.com/military-news/qmp.html

        Have a safe trip and I wont be a double-digit midget until 10 days but at least we are having meetings for our reset. We definitely on the downside of the mountain.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: 1LT Promotion to CPT//APFT?

          ...if I can touch back on the officer promotion...

          Maybe this is the wrong way of thinking, especially in an Army where OCD/Type-A personalities abound lead to the pervasive desire to promote as quickly as possible...

          But, is there ever a possibility that being "passed over" could actually be a GOOD thing?

          It would seem like a quick/premature jump to Captain would immediately set the countdown ticking for Major...and, two-passovers, from CPT to MAJ, as far as I understand, is a guaranteed career killer.

          I read, in a separate thread, a poster had said "My advice to LTs today is "Don't be in a hurry to get promoted!""

          Of course...any of my peer LTs will say that they want to be promoted as quickly as possible.

          But, is it such a bad thing for one to think highly enough of their career, and readiness for promotion, to pursue as many leadership opportunities, for as long as possible, in a lower grade? Both my roomates here, in Kuwait, are Captains, and, one in particular, says that he wishes he would have spent more time as an LT....more for the sake of fostering his leadership abilities and gaining experience before the jump in responsibility that will naturally come with a promotion to Captain.

          My first subsequent OER, several months later, is evidence that I'm working my tail off to 'bounce' back from the few seconds failed on my PT test here in Kuwait. Interestingly enough, as an E-3, I ran my two-mile in a 12:50, while serving in Afghanistan. I know the standards are the standards, and I haven't made excuses. If an officer gets passed over for promotion to CPT, how does that REALLY work the second go? Does the board just assume you are a screw up, and, regardless of how hard you work and rebound, are you destined to be passed over a second time? For the second-go-around, is a "first-time-passed-over" Officer somehow identified, to the board?

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: 1LT Promotion to CPT//APFT?

            Sorry, but the AF MAJ photo was released and it gives me shivers because we were sitting together on a bus and talking at Bagram recently plus conversated on other numerous occasions. A great leader.

            http://freedomremembered.com/index.p...walter-d-gray/

            http://freedomremembered.com/index.p...vin-j-griffin/

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: 1LT Promotion to CPT//APFT?

              Originally posted by x3xsolxdierx3x View Post
              ...if I can touch back on the officer promotion...

              Maybe this is the wrong way of thinking, especially in an Army where OCD/Type-A personalities abound lead to the pervasive desire to promote as quickly as possible...

              But, is there ever a possibility that being "passed over" could actually be a GOOD thing?

              It would seem like a quick/premature jump to Captain would immediately set the countdown ticking for Major...and, two-passovers, from CPT to MAJ, as far as I understand, is a guaranteed career killer.

              I read, in a separate thread, a poster had said "My advice to LTs today is "Don't be in a hurry to get promoted!""

              Of course...any of my peer LTs will say that they want to be promoted as quickly as possible.

              But, is it such a bad thing for one to think highly enough of their career, and readiness for promotion, to pursue as many leadership opportunities, for as long as possible, in a lower grade? Both my roomates here, in Kuwait, are Captains, and, one in particular, says that he wishes he would have spent more time as an LT....more for the sake of fostering his leadership abilities and gaining experience before the jump in responsibility that will naturally come with a promotion to Captain.

              My first subsequent OER, several months later, is evidence that I'm working my tail off to 'bounce' back from the few seconds failed on my PT test here in Kuwait. Interestingly enough, as an E-3, I ran my two-mile in a 12:50, while serving in Afghanistan. I know the standards are the standards, and I haven't made excuses. If an officer gets passed over for promotion to CPT, how does that REALLY work the second go? Does the board just assume you are a screw up, and, regardless of how hard you work and rebound, are you destined to be passed over a second time? For the second-go-around, is a "first-time-passed-over" Officer somehow identified, to the board?
              The problem with this line of thinking is that, in my opinion, you're never 'ready' for company command. There's way too much **** to learn that if you tried to do it prior to getting promoted, you might not ever get there. "Being Ready" is the ability to take charge and jump into the unknown. I've never been promoted military or otherwise because I was "ready." In my opinion it was a factor of being capable and having high potential for success that gave my boss/commander the confidence to give me a promotion.

              Platoon Leader and XO time are the two most critical leadership roles one can have as a LT, in my humble opinion. I can't think of other roles that really add a lot of value to getting you prepared for CC. Everyone wishes they spent more time as a PL because it's awesome. You've got the right amount of responsibility/authority without a ton of administrative overhead like the commander, at least in a Combat Arms/Support (12B) role.

              There are times when promoting late is sometimes advantageous; I have a friend who is a technician and due to some ongoing medical issues has not yet promoted to CPT. Promoting too quickly has implications for his full time position, so it's not necessarily a bad thing for him to still be sitting at 0-2. We were close in commissioning, but now I've got almost 2 years TIG on him. Somewhat of an edge-case in support of delaying promotion, but he also had some health issues working against him.

              Don't over think this. Enjoy your LT time, learn as much as you can, and be ready to step up. I don't think it's a good idea to delay getting promoted. I haven't heard of too many people getting passed over from CPT to MAJ; submitting that packet is usually done pretty strategically.

              How many more OERs will you have before you go before the board? My guess is that with a couple of solid OERs between your referred OER and your board and it will be as if it doesn't exist; buried away if you will. Be prepared to address it, of course.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: 1LT Promotion to CPT//APFT?

                Originally posted by collk22 View Post
                The problem with this line of thinking is that, in my opinion, you're never 'ready' for company command. There's way too much **** to learn that if you tried to do it prior to getting promoted, you might not ever get there. "Being Ready" is the ability to take charge and jump into the unknown. I've never been promoted military or otherwise because I was "ready." In my opinion it was a factor of being capable and having high potential for success that gave my boss/commander the confidence to give me a promotion.

                Platoon Leader and XO time are the two most critical leadership roles one can have as a LT, in my humble opinion. I can't think of other roles that really add a lot of value to getting you prepared for CC. Everyone wishes they spent more time as a PL because it's awesome. You've got the right amount of responsibility/authority without a ton of administrative overhead like the commander, at least in a Combat Arms/Support (12B) role.

                There are times when promoting late is sometimes advantageous; I have a friend who is a technician and due to some ongoing medical issues has not yet promoted to CPT. Promoting too quickly has implications for his full time position, so it's not necessarily a bad thing for him to still be sitting at 0-2. We were close in commissioning, but now I've got almost 2 years TIG on him. Somewhat of an edge-case in support of delaying promotion, but he also had some health issues working against him.

                Don't over think this. Enjoy your LT time, learn as much as you can, and be ready to step up. I don't think it's a good idea to delay getting promoted. I haven't heard of too many people getting passed over from CPT to MAJ; submitting that packet is usually done pretty strategically.

                How many more OERs will you have before you go before the board? My guess is that with a couple of solid OERs between your referred OER and your board and it will be as if it doesn't exist; buried away if you will. Be prepared to address it, of course.
                Thank you for this post, Sir.

                "Over-analyzing" is a flaw of mine.

                However, here in Kuwait, I do truly believe that it's been my analytical ability that has served to really help me execute my mission as the BN Trans Officer.

                Like any attribute, it has it's upsides and downsides.

                I'm really trying hard to formulate a "plan" to bounce back here.

                Before the rating period for my second OER (the good, non-referred OER), I specifically asked my rater what would be required of me to receive an an "outstanding performance--must promote". I was point blank told "there is nothing you can do. It is already decided." I was told that it is the Senior LT who always receives those ratings.

                I'll be leaving Kuwait here, in a few days, having earned 7 Coins from General Officers (I know...they aren't exactly BSMs...and, awards aren't EVERYTHING in the Army, but I took just as much pride in receiving them as the CG's did handing them out). And, these weren't received after remembering to salute while walking by....they were received after 1-2 hour briefings, that I led, detailing lessons learned from my role as an SSA Accountable Officer, to my transition as the BN Trans Officer, midway through the deployment.

                This isn't a complaint or gripe, but I'm really trying to figure out what I have to do to get noticed. I understand that not everyone will be rated the way they believe they should be rated.

                As an LT, so far, I've been my BDE S&S officer, as well as my BN Trans officer. BDE and BN levels are all I've known, and, just like you said, I do believe that I NEED some PL time. Not that it's mandatory...but, honestly, for my own professional development, I WANT it.

                I commissioned in September 2009. I believe I'll have 1-2 additional OERs before I'm boarded.

                Even though I commissioned in September 2009, I didn't receive my first OER until January 2012. Is that normal?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: 1LT Promotion to CPT//APFT?

                  Originally posted by x3xsolxdierx3x View Post
                  Thank you for this post, Sir.

                  "Over-analyzing" is a flaw of mine.

                  However, here in Kuwait, I do truly believe that it's been my analytical ability that has served to really help me execute my mission as the BN Trans Officer.

                  Like any attribute, it has it's upsides and downsides.

                  I'm really trying hard to formulate a "plan" to bounce back here.

                  Before the rating period for my second OER (the good, non-referred OER), I specifically asked my rater what would be required of me to receive an an "outstanding performance--must promote". I was point blank told "there is nothing you can do. It is already decided." I was told that it is the Senior LT who always receives those ratings.

                  I'll be leaving Kuwait here, in a few days, having earned 7 Coins from General Officers (I know...they aren't exactly BSMs...and, awards aren't EVERYTHING in the Army, but I took just as much pride in receiving them as the CG's did handing them out). And, these weren't received after remembering to salute while walking by....they were received after 1-2 hour briefings, that I led, detailing lessons learned from my role as an SSA Accountable Officer, to my transition as the BN Trans Officer, midway through the deployment.

                  This isn't a complaint or gripe, but I'm really trying to figure out what I have to do to get noticed. I understand that not everyone will be rated the way they believe they should be rated.

                  As an LT, so far, I've been my BDE S&S officer, as well as my BN Trans officer. BDE and BN levels are all I've known, and, just like you said, I do believe that I NEED some PL time. Not that it's mandatory...but, honestly, for my own professional development, I WANT it.

                  I commissioned in September 2009. I believe I'll have 1-2 additional OERs before I'm boarded.

                  Even though I commissioned in September 2009, I didn't receive my first OER until January 2012. Is that normal?
                  Commissioning in 2009 and not getting an OER until January 2012 seems like an excessively long period of time to go without an OER. You should have had at least 1 or 2 during that period, assuming your BOLC 1059 counted as one of those. Who do you report to, the XO? Have you talked to them about getting assigned to one of the line companies in your BN so you can get PL time? What about your OER Support form; have you put down all the briefings and high-speed stuff you did in that form to help your rater?

                  PL time is critical; the staff duty assignments teach you things, but it's not a troop-leading role which is critical to your overall development. Try to work with your chain of command to get a new assignment when you get back to the states. You may also want to make some informal inquiries to the S-1, or someone with admin knowledge, about what all goes into your O-2 to O-3 promotion packet to see if that first (referred) OER is likely to find it's way in that packet.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: 1LT Promotion to CPT//APFT?

                    Originally posted by fmcityslicker View Post
                    Sorry, but the AF MAJ photo was released and it gives me shivers because we were sitting together on a bus and talking at Bagram recently plus conversated on other numerous occasions. A great leader.

                    http://freedomremembered.com/index.p...walter-d-gray/

                    http://freedomremembered.com/index.p...vin-j-griffin/
                    Prayers for their families.

                    That's the sad, bitter, reality of our profession. And, to think, less than 1% of the U.S. population is willing and/or able to commit their lives to a life of selfess service and sacrifice.

                    Growing up, I had MANY people tell me "I'm 'thinking' about joining"...only to never join...

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: 1LT Promotion to CPT//APFT?

                      Originally posted by collk22 View Post
                      Commissioning in 2009 and not getting an OER until January 2012 seems like an excessively long period of time to go without an OER. You should have had at least 1 or 2 during that period, assuming your BOLC 1059 counted as one of those. Who do you report to, the XO? Have you talked to them about getting assigned to one of the line companies in your BN so you can get PL time? What about your OER Support form; have you put down all the briefings and high-speed stuff you did in that form to help your rater?

                      PL time is critical; the staff duty assignments teach you things, but it's not a troop-leading role which is critical to your overall development. Try to work with your chain of command to get a new assignment when you get back to the states. You may also want to make some informal inquiries to the S-1, or someone with admin knowledge, about what all goes into your O-2 to O-3 promotion packet to see if that first (referred) OER is likely to find it's way in that packet.
                      I spoke to my S-1.

                      While that time frame typically isn't normal, it's because I had to wait quite a long time to get a slot for BOLC. I wasn't technically owed an OER until after BOLC, as far as I understand. So, it makes sense now....

                      After your post, I did speak to him about being reassigned to a company to get some PL time. He knows exactly where to put me. For a national guard Soldier, it's not too long of a drive either.

                      I did speak to a Major about that OER. He seemed hopefully that, with good subsequent OERs, that that likely won't be a career killer for me. He said "at least it wasn't as bad as a relief-for-cause OER". And, not to mention, my subsequent OER was good....and, just so long as I work hard and committ myself to exemplary service, I think I'll be able to rebound.

                      IF that OER goes in front of the board, it's likely that I'll submit a letter to the President of the board.

                      HERE is what I found about the discretion and judgment behind writing to a board:

                      "Use your best judgment when deciding whether or not to write a letter to the board. A letter can highlight and make an issue of something in your file which you are trying to explain, resulting in exactly the opposite effect of what your original intent was for writing the letter."

                      In the case of failing a PT run by a few seconds, I feel a letter would be warranted especially WHEN I demonstrate continual adherence to exemplary service and high standards through 2-3 subsequent good OERs, with passing APFTs.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: 1LT Promotion to CPT//APFT?

                        What was bad about the OER? Rater or Senior rater comments or both? yes, your 1059 from school covers you but in my case; I got one that covered my graduation to the annual date.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: 1LT Promotion to CPT//APFT?

                          Originally posted by fmcityslicker View Post
                          What was bad about the OER? Rater or Senior rater comments or both? yes, your 1059 from school covers you but in my case; I got one that covered my graduation to the annual date.
                          Chief,

                          Neither rater or senior rater comments were bad. In fact, all the comments were pretty good. That first OER just had a reference, at the end of the rater comment, about having failed a PT and how I'd engage in remedial PT 3 times a week.

                          That PT test was done during a fairly cool month here in Kuwait--January--compared to now, it was some 30 degrees cooler...only in the high 90's/low 100's...lol

                          I've been working my tail off, though, and saw significant improvement on my next subsequent OER.

                          My goal is to get back up to 280-300....when that happens, I'm contemplating writing a letter to the President of the board that convenes.

                          I was told by a MAJ that "at least it wasn't a relief-for-cause OER"...

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: 1LT Promotion to CPT//APFT?

                            I am surprised they did not afford you a diagnostic while you in a deployed environment. Which event you failed? The run? I am surprised you did not have enough time to re-take it and pass it before your OER end date and avoid that blurb on your OER.

                            Also, there is a wide-gap between rated above or below center mass than a relief-for-cause. I guess the MAJ was saying that a RFC is the real career killer. Did you do your homework with AR 623_105?

                            And another OER in a short time? Change of rater?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: 1LT Promotion to CPT//APFT?

                              Originally posted by fmcityslicker View Post
                              I am surprised they did not afford you a diagnostic while you in a deployed environment. Which event you failed? The run? I am surprised you did not have enough time to re-take it and pass it before your OER end date and avoid that blurb on your OER.

                              Also, there is a wide-gap between rated above or below center mass than a relief-for-cause. I guess the MAJ was saying that a RFC is the real career killer. Did you do your homework with AR 623_105?

                              And another OER in a short time? Change of rater?
                              It was the run, Chief. Between when I commissioned (2009) and that OER (Jan 2012), I had taken the PT test something like 4 or 5 times. Unfortunately, the only PT test that made it onto the OER was the LAST one I took.

                              Two weeks later, I passed a re-take of the APFT.

                              It was hot. The weather conditions sucked. But, I haven't turned that into an excuse. "It is what it is." We all had to take the test.

                              It's hard to stomach that a few seconds on my run, despite outstanding work performance, could literally keep me from ever making Captain.

                              With my subsequent OERs, I'm determined to get back to the 280-300 range. When that happens, I'll be writing a letter to the President of the Board.

                              What does everyone think about writing a letter?

                              From what I've read, they say that writing a letter is a toss-up. Of course, it will immediately draw attention to an 'event' or 'situation' in OERs. It's a "catch-22". Shedding light on an issue could either really hurt a Soldier and their career, or could really help a Soldier and their career. The circumstances surrounding mine, I believe, would be seen favorably though. While it's never good to NOT reach "the standard", failing an APFT, only to come back and pass it in for, not just one, but 2-3 subsequent OERs, I believe, is MUCH better than trying to explain why a referred OER was given after disciplinary action like an Article-15/NJP. I'd rather explain a failed APFT, and the fact that I rebounded, than why I have an Article 15 in the P-fiche of my OMPF.

                              Makes sense?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: 1LT Promotion to CPT//APFT?

                                So, you took the APFT, failed it, then received and signed your OER and two weeks later you passed it?

                                I am not trying to question the integrity of your rater but he knew this was a mishap (meaning he knew you could run and was out of it that day) and you failed but passed it before the rating period; then why even mention it on the OER? Because it was the last within the rating period? And if that is the case; why take it so near the end of your thru date of your OER to set yourself up like that. I know he is going by the book and being honest in his write-up but there are times where you can bypass to take care of soldiers.

                                Yes, I have seen officers that busted tape but were pistol whipped the right numbers. Walls are thin and whispers are loud. Some were even retirement eligible and field grade.

                                The address on the OER has an APO on it so maybe the board members voting will see that and not be so harsh with their OML number. But to be honest; I came across some junior officers that had sub-par OERs and made it to the next grade. Depending on your selection rates, you should be good to go. I even met a few warrants that were passed over twice for CW3 (last board results that came out 2 days ago). They are distraught but nevertheless, they will be able to retire at 20 years since it happened at their 18.5 and 19th years of AFS. So not the way you want to leave but they are leaving with a monthly check for the rest of their lives.

                                I met a Captain that made the Major list supposedly after her third look. Many thought she was going to be forced out and I even gave her advice for civilian job prospects but she got selected that year she was suppose to be forced out. That baffled some. Anyway, dont sweat it until it happens. Lately, I have come across many people who are doing great but are so nervous about their future boards. They are worried about sustaining thier A game for years but you have to if you want to compete. Such nervousness is a good thing to keep you focused.
                                Last edited by Chief Kemosabe; August 12th, 2012, 10:04 AM.

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