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  • Saluting while walking with another officer

    All,

    I have a question, if I am a 1LT and i'm walking with a CPT and another CPT is walking towards us, do I salute?

    I was "trained" in OCS that it is disrespectful to salute an officer whom is the same rank as the officer I'm walking with. Of course that "training session" wasn't so nice during OCS...learn by fire.

    So I'm at Ft. Lee and some CPT walks by and reams me for not saluting her and stated that my reasons are false and to show her in the REG (on the spot). So I pull out AR 600....just kidding....So I just saluted her, gave her the greeting of the day and marched on.

    Since then I've been on a mission.

    Can anyone find this in writing? Every Company Grade and Field Grade i've spoken with (including the OCS CO from my state) said I was correct, but nobody can find it in any regulation, etc.

    Can anyone chime in and get me the document, or is this an old guard thing that really isn't correct?

    Thanks and I look forward to your comments.

  • #2
    Re: Saluting while walking with another officer

    I have had this SAME question before but could not find the official regulation citing the "you're attached to the rank your walking with" theory/rule.

    I attended a Leadership Conference with a Major and asked, "if we are approached by a Captain, they would be saluting the Major, but do I salute the Captain? And is he lowering his salute due to being acknowledged by Major or returning mine?" I lost way too much sleep over this, it never occurred and the only person we came upon outside was a LTC friend, so we both had to salute anyway!

    I am curious though, I will keep searching for the reg AND remember to just 'salute 'em all' during OCS.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Saluting while walking with another officer

      Yes, you do salute officers of the same grade that you are walking with. If you been in Bagram, you should observe the "salute" zone. I am at Fenty now and it's a salute zone and it's fun to walk down salute alley. You might as well have your hand taped to your forehead.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Saluting while walking with another officer

        I have been in heated debates about this same topic very recently. You will not find anything authoritative in any regulation or writing. I have had high speeds tell me it isn't in the regulation so don't do it....to which I respond "well neither are no salute areas or general officer salute areas". I have been in units that practiced the salute everyone always custom. And I have been in units, and am currently in one now that seems to practice the respect the most senior person type theory. It is really comical to watch a group of four approach another group of four and watch the ridiculous volley of salutes that occur, and it just seems to be more oragnized to salute the senior, and he salutes back...too easy.

        I'll repeat that you can stop looking in regulations for the answer, these crazy type situation are not discussed and all it states is to "salute all those who are entitled a salute"....but just what does that mean.

        While searching everywhere, the only thing I found was other people with the same question (much like this thread), I found this posting below made by a LT somewhere which is articulated well and outlines the confusion......

        I am looking for an answer to this question myself, but have not yet found anything authoritative. So I'll share what makes sense to me (and what was taught to me in the early days of my Army career).
        When a salute is rendered to a group of officers of mixed ranks, it is the senior officer in that group who is officially the target/recipient of the salute. While that doesn't settle the question of who returns the salute, it suggests that it may be either optional or inappropriate for the other officers to return the salute.

        Consider a party of two, a lieutenant and a major, encountering another party of two, a captain and a lieutenant colonel. It would seem most natural that the lieutenant and major salute the lieutenant colonel. But it would seem inappropriate for the captain to return the salute rendered by the approaching party, inasmuch as that group salute included one rendered by an officer senior to him. When observing just such an encounter, one occasionally witnesses an awkward (not to mention confused) back-and-forth volley of salutes: the lieutenant saluting the captain and lieutenant colonel, the captain responding and simultaneously saluting the major (who is already in the act of trying to salute the lieutenant colonel, but now struggles to figure out whether/how to respond to the captain's salute), the major saluting the lieutenant colonel, and the lieutenant colonel responding.

        It would seem that the easiest solution would be that all members of a party encountering another party containing a senior officer would render a salute. Only the senior officer of the receiving party would return the salute.
        To further bolster this suggestion, consider what an officer should do when accompanying a senior officer and then encountering another officer of the same rank as the senior. For clarity, I'll specify that a captain is walking with a major. They approach another major. Clearly, the two majors do not exchange salutes. But if the captain salutes the approaching major, he is effectively disengaging from the major he is already escorting in order to acknowledge another officer whose rank is no higher than the one he is already escorting. This seems inappropriate.

        As a platoon leader, I was once outdoors with a number of soldiers in my platoon when another lieutenant approached. A well-intended, but unobservant sergeant in the party I was attending to called the group to attention and saluted the approaching lieutenant. Naturally, I responded with something like "Am I not really here, or what?", indicating that he had just taken the attention of my group away from me in order to acknowledge an officer of equivalent rank. Clearly, this was inappropriate.
        This would explain why one accompanying a senior officer need only salute officers senior to both of them, and not all officer senior to him. If we apply a similar approach, I think we find grounds for suggesting that when a group of mixed rank officers is saluted, only the senior responds.

        Unfortunately, I think that few servicemen are reflective enough to realize this. Instead, withholding a salute can leave them wondering what is wrong with the junior officer that he didn't return the salute. So propriety aside, it may still be worth returning a salute. Beyond being just a show of deference or respect, a salute is also a greeting exchanged between comrades in arms. Given that, we might welcome the opportunity to participate in an exchange of salutes.
        As a commissioned officer, myself, a first lt., I was always taught that the salute is a recognition of rank, not the individual, and common military courtesy requires that all salutes be returned by all officers to those doing the saluting.
        Last edited by ParalegalNCO1; March 21st, 2012, 12:49 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Saluting while walking with another officer

          I'm thinking now (watch out)...

          If you are walking with another officer, is this considered a formation? (two or more?)

          If you are in formation, the senior officer salutes.

          Would this fall under such category? This is the only way I could see it "flying" in black and white...

          ParalegalNCO1, thanks for all the info! Good stuff!

          Could you imagine walking with a BG and here comes a CPT...What would the BG say to you if you saluted the CPT? Or even better, what would a CSM/SGM do to you if he/she witnessed this...

          In OCS, I got my "you know what" handed to me for saluting another CPT while I was walking with a CPT. Maybe I should have asked him to show me the reg? hahahaaa...I wouldn't be here right now...

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Saluting while walking with another officer

            When in doubt...whip it out.

            Become a Warrant and hang out with other Warrants. They never salute one another even though they should.

            I have walked with a full-bird Colonel and saluted the LTC that approached us. Like Paralegal said; I have played volley salute countless times.

            Nothing complicated whatsoever.
            Last edited by Chief Kemosabe; March 21st, 2012, 10:59 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Saluting while walking with another officer

              Originally posted by fmcityslicker View Post
              When in doubt...whip it out.
              Whoa...I was just going to type the exact same thing, lol. Interesting discussion though.

              Side Note to the OP: Perhaps you should ask the admins to change your screen name considering you are now a 1LT and no longer an OCScandidate. At first I was like...This poor OCScandidate thinks he is already a 1LT, awww, he has a lot to learn. lol

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Saluting while walking with another officer

                Originally posted by OCScandidate View Post
                All,

                I have a question, if I am a 1LT and i'm walking with a CPT and another CPT is walking towards us, do I salute?

                I was "trained" in OCS that it is disrespectful to salute an officer whom is the same rank as the officer I'm walking with. Of course that "training session" wasn't so nice during OCS...learn by fire.

                So I'm at Ft. Lee and some CPT walks by and reams me for not saluting her and stated that my reasons are false and to show her in the REG (on the spot). So I pull out AR 600....just kidding....So I just saluted her, gave her the greeting of the day and marched on.

                Since then I've been on a mission.

                Can anyone find this in writing? Every Company Grade and Field Grade i've spoken with (including the OCS CO from my state) said I was correct, but nobody can find it in any regulation, etc.

                Can anyone chime in and get me the document, or is this an old guard thing that really isn't correct?

                Thanks and I look forward to your comments.
                Another commissioned officer with some type of complex.

                I've (and the XO and CDR of my unit) never cared about being saluted by other soldiers or to each other. Operational aspects are far more important than formalities.

                My previous CDR told me a story of a similar scenario. He was operating a checkpoint into a FOB in Iraq and some COL rolled up to the checkpoint. He gave them the signal that they could pass through but the COL paused and questioned him, "Are you going to salute me LT?" My CDR replied, "Well, sir. We were taking direct fire from that position 300m over there yesterday. Would you still like me to salute you?"
                Last edited by Polo08816; March 21st, 2012, 11:16 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Saluting while walking with another officer

                  No offense, but the LT had the wrong answer. If I was that Colonel, I would have ripped him a new one...not only for violation of Army Regulation but clear disrespect. I'm not saying I agree with having to salute in a "war zone" but it was most likely garrison, in which, you salute, even as a gate guard.

                  My thing is this,

                  As a Sergeant walking with a Captain and another Captain walked by, I would salute.

                  As a Sergeant walking with a Captain and a Lieutenant walked by, the Lieutenant would salute the Captain and I would not salute BUT give the greeting of the day.

                  As a Sergeant walking with a Captain and a Major+ walked by, we both would salute.


                  Some can argue with this though:

                  FM 21-13

                  4-7. The salute is not simply an honor exchanged. It is a privileged gesture of respect and trust among soldiers. Remember the salute is not only prescribed by regulation but is also recognition of each other’s commitment, abilities, and professionalism.

                  4-9. The salute is widely misunderstood outside the military. Some consider it to be a gesture of servility since the junior extends a salute to the senior, but we know that it is quite the opposite. The salute is an expression that recognizes each other as a member of the profession of arms; that they have made a personal commitment of self-sacrifice to preserve our way of life. The fact that the junior extends the greeting first is merely a point of etiquette—a salute extended or returned makes the same statement.

                  But then you get ****** up...because the LT would be saluting the Captain and I would be saluting the LT and he would have to drop his salute to render salute to me or it's disrespectful but then I salute first and drop last which would take way too long and we would already have a distance of 100 meters in between.
                  Last edited by Mr_Loki; March 21st, 2012, 11:54 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Saluting while walking with another officer

                    Originally posted by Mr_Loki View Post
                    No offense, but the LT had the wrong answer. If I was that Colonel, I would have ripped him a new one...not only for violation of Army Regulation but clear disrespect. I'm not saying I agree with having to salute in a "war zone" but it was most likely garrison, in which, you salute, even as a gate guard.
                    In many cases, it's far better to be disrespectful than dead.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Saluting while walking with another officer

                      Originally posted by Polo08816 View Post
                      Another commissioned officer with some type of complex.

                      I've (and the XO and CDR of my unit) never cared about being saluted by other soldiers or to each other. Operational aspects are far more important than formalities.

                      My previous CDR told me a story of a similar scenario. He was operating a checkpoint into a FOB in Iraq and some COL rolled up to the checkpoint. He gave them the signal that they could pass through but the COL paused and questioned him, "Are you going to salute me LT?" My CDR replied, "Well, sir. We were taking direct fire from that position 300m over there yesterday. Would you still like me to salute you?"
                      Lulz @ the LT - utter disrespectful, yet in many ways it is a completely appropriate response to the COL's ridiculousness. I'm not sure I would have handled it any differently.

                      There's a time and place for enforcing saluting/courtesy standards. Generally in a garrison setting, I think it's good to enforce some of this stuff because I like the tone of professionalism it sets. I think units, especially in the Guard, are guilty of being too friendly with each other at the expense of standards/ceremony. It's all about handling it the right way. A better way for the CPT to address the situation would have been not to flip her ****, IMHO, but that's just me.

                      Just out of curiosity, was she a slick sleeve?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Saluting while walking with another officer

                        RSP NCO, took your advice and had them change it. Good catch.

                        Thanks for looking out.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Saluting while walking with another officer

                          Originally posted by OCSAMAGrad View Post
                          RSP NCO, took your advice and had them change it. Good catch.

                          Thanks for looking out.

                          You know sir...NCO's have to take care of the LT's

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Saluting while walking with another officer

                            HOOAAAHHH!!! That's what i'm talking about!!! If an LT learns anything at all with all of their entry training it needs to be that one very thing!!! Teamwork!!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Saluting while walking with another officer

                              This is the only thing remotely I could find that would qualify (I think)...And where that senior person is the same rank as the approaching officer, this would void the need to call to attention and salute. What are your thoughts? Any objections, arguments, gripes or complaints?

                              3-21.5 (Drill and Ceremony)
                              Appendix A (Saluting)
                              Paragraph A-5 (b)
                              b. Not in Formation. On the approach of an officer, a group of individuals not in
                              formation is called to Attention by the first person noticing the officer, and all come sharply
                              to Attention and salute. This action is to be taken at approximately 6 paces away from the
                              officer, or the closest point of approach. Individuals participating in games, and members of
                              work details, do not salute. The individual in charge of a work detail, if not actively engaged,
                              salutes and acknowledges Salutes for the entire detail. A unit resting alongside a road does
                              not come to Attention upon the approach of an officer; however, if the officer addresses an
                              individual (or group), the individual (or group) comes to Attention and remains at Attention
                              (unless otherwise ordered) until the termination of the conversation, at which time the
                              individual (or group) salutes the officer.

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