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  • APFT - NCOER Question

    I have a NCOER that I need to sign. The rated period is from 15 July 2012 to 14 July 2013. I failed an APFT on 26 March 2013 which is reflected on my NCOER, so I have a needs improvement. However on 10 July 2013 I passed an APFT with flying colors and am being told that is a DIAG so it would not count for this NCOER. Any advice on this? I really do not want a needs improvement on my NCOER, especially when I have several excellences marked and am listed as fully capable on the end review.

  • #2
    Re: APFT - NCOER Question

    Originally posted by inafghanistan View Post
    I have a NCOER that I need to sign. The rated period is from 15 July 2012 to 14 July 2013. I failed an APFT on 26 March 2013 which is reflected on my NCOER, so I have a needs improvement. However on 10 July 2013 I passed an APFT with flying colors and am being told that is a DIAG so it would not count for this NCOER. Any advice on this? I really do not want a needs improvement on my NCOER, especially when I have several excellences marked and am listed as fully capable on the end review.
    Was the 10 July test announced a "record test" at the time of that test? If so, that test takes priority. If it was not declared a record test, you cannot (at least are not supposed too) go back retroactivley and use that as a passing score just because you passed. Likewise, if you were to fail a non record test it wouldnt be used against you.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: APFT - NCOER Question

      There is a very blurry line between "diag" and "record". IMHO, if you pass a correctly administered APFT, it shouldn't flippin matter.... There is no more legwork involved other than inputting into the system.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: APFT - NCOER Question

        Originally posted by TxIntel 1978 View Post
        There is a very blurry line between "diag" and "record". IMHO, if you pass a correctly administered APFT, it shouldn't flippin matter.... There is no more legwork involved other than inputting into the system.
        You can't do it this way, because then the fat bodies say it is a diagnostic and if they all of a sudden want it a record test.....which would basically result in no one ever being flagged for APFT.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: APFT - NCOER Question

          Originally posted by TxIntel 1978 View Post
          There is a very blurry line between "diag" and "record". IMHO, if you pass a correctly administered APFT, it shouldn't flippin matter.... There is no more legwork involved other than inputting into the system.
          +1

          I failed a Diag when I initially reported to my previous unit, and they STILL flagged me.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: APFT - NCOER Question

            Originally posted by TxIntel 1978 View Post
            There is a very blurry line between "diag" and "record". IMHO, if you pass a correctly administered APFT, it shouldn't flippin matter.... There is no more legwork involved other than inputting into the system.
            You can't do it this way, because then people say it is a diagnostic and if they pass all of a sudden want it a record test.....which would basically result in no one ever being flagged for APFT. because if they fail said diagnostic they will claim not to be flagged because it was not for record. It must be declared before the start.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: APFT - NCOER Question

              Also, that Needs Improvement will get you a 4/4 from the senior rater (talk to him/her too). You lucky you received Fully Capable instead of Marginal. Read the DA Pam and take it up with your chain. Plus, your PT card should state record or diag in it. About time NCOs are being held accountable.

              Here is the link to the NCOER DA Pam http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/p623_3.pdf <---Go to page 42
              Last edited by Chief Kemosabe; August 13th, 2013, 10:14 AM. Reason: added DA Pam

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: APFT - NCOER Question

                Originally posted by Zero259
                +1

                I failed a Diag when I initially reported to my previous unit, and they STILL flagged me.
                Your unit was worng, simple as that.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: APFT - NCOER Question

                  I don't mean to be pedantic, but the obvious answer is that you take a for-record APFT.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: APFT - NCOER Question

                    Originally posted by matthew.ritchie View Post
                    I don't mean to be pedantic, but the obvious answer is that you take a for-record APFT.
                    Nothing he can do about that now, he is passed his through date and this is an annual NCOER.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: APFT - NCOER Question

                      A fat-body should be put on the Weight Control program in addition to extra PT.... which would mitigate any flag issues. In my unit, if you fail a called DIAG or RECORD, you get flagged.
                      Maybe unit commander's call?

                      As far as the OP quote, he went from failing to passing "with flying colors" in 5 months of NG service. Which mean, the issues was more likely a grader or just having an off day.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: APFT - NCOER Question

                        Not to sound like a judgemental jerk, but.....the standards aren't a pop quiz. There should be no valid reason for failing a PT test. You know the standards and should train for such. Unless you're injured/sick, your performance shouldn't suffer to the point of failure for any reason.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: APFT - NCOER Question

                          Originally posted by TxIntel 1978 View Post
                          In my unit, if you fail a called DIAG or RECORD, you get flagged.
                          This is 100% incorrect. Soldiers should not be FLAGGED for failing a diagnostic. This is not a commanders call. If they are doing it, you should advise them to stop.

                          AR 600-8-2
                          Paragraph 2-3
                          b.“Army Physical Fitness Test failure” (Flag code J). Initiate a Flag when a Soldier fails a record APFT or when,
                          through the Soldier’s fault as determined by the commander, the Soldier fails to take the APFT within the time
                          prescribed by existing regulations, or when directed by the commanding officer (as provided for in AR 350–1). A Flag
                          is not required for a Soldier who has a permanent or temporary profile that precludes taking the APFT or is unable to
                          undergo an APFT because of conditions beyond the Soldier’s control (as determined by the commander). Soldiers with
                          a profile effective after the APFT will remain flagged until a record APFT is passed. A Flag is not required when the
                          commander determines the Soldier cannot be administered an alternate APFT because of conditions beyond the
                          Soldier’s control. Soldiers who become pregnant after being flagged for failing an APFT (as determined by a
                          physician) will remain flagged until successfully passing an APFT. Remove the Flag (code E) on date of compliance.
                          If, as determined by her primary care provider, the Soldier was pregnant at the time of APFT failure, the commander
                          will immediately remove the Flag (code Z).
                          Last edited by realitycheck; August 13th, 2013, 01:30 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: APFT - NCOER Question

                            Originally posted by TxIntel 1978 View Post
                            A fat-body should be put on the Weight Control program in addition to extra PT.... which would mitigate any flag issues. In my unit, if you fail a called DIAG or RECORD, you get flagged.
                            Maybe unit commander's call?

                            As far as the OP quote, he went from failing to passing "with flying colors" in 5 months of NG service. Which mean, the issues was more likely a grader or just having an off day.
                            +1

                            I passed the next APFT I took 2 drills later with no problem. Only event I failed was sit-ups. I think it was because I ate too much ice cream the night before.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: APFT - NCOER Question

                              Originally posted by TxIntel 1978 View Post
                              A fat-body should be put on the Weight Control program in addition to extra PT.... which would mitigate any flag issues. In my unit, if you fail a called DIAG or RECORD, you get flagged.
                              Maybe unit commander's call?

                              As far as the OP quote, he went from failing to passing "with flying colors" in 5 months of NG service. Which mean, the issues was more likely a grader or just having an off day.
                              Thanks for the input everyone. My flying colors was from failing the run by 46 seconds to getting a 251 on this last one. Additionally I was under the impression after failing a record, your suppose to be given a retest no later than 90 days. I was never given a retest and this last PT test which is being called a DIAG was the first one I've taken since March.

                              Prior to the record PT test in march the last PT test our unit took was in June of 2012 does that mean anything?

                              Comment

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