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  • Unsatisfactory attendance Code U

    Could someone clarify why a SM can get coded U, not sure of the number but probably 3, not completing a training event, so they are not in a paid status, not sent home so still had to be there the four hour MUTA they were not paid for and get a six month non promotion status out of it when essentially if not paid, how can you be disciplined further if you arent getting paid? To me it makes more sense to either get paid and get the notice you are taken off the EPS for six months, or not get paid and call it a day with no further repercussion. It was for not participating in one event of the APFT. It seems like double jeopardy to me being 'charged' with both.

  • #2
    Re: Unsatisfactory attendance Code U

    Double jeopardy is a term for trial law not non-judicial stuff.

    Have the SM take it up with his COC.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Unsatisfactory attendance Code U

      Originally posted by WIBecky74 View Post
      Could someone clarify why a SM can get coded U, not sure of the number but probably 3, not completing a training event, so they are not in a paid status, not sent home so still had to be there the four hour MUTA they were not paid for and get a six month non promotion status out of it when essentially if not paid, how can you be disciplined further if you arent getting paid? To me it makes more sense to either get paid and get the notice you are taken off the EPS for six months, or not get paid and call it a day with no further repercussion. It was for not participating in one event of the APFT. It seems like double jeopardy to me being 'charged' with both.
      I can't even make sense of this to try and answer. Try rephrasing.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Unsatisfactory attendance Code U

        Originally posted by ParalegalNCO1 View Post
        I can't even make sense of this to try and answer. Try rephrasing.
        Found guilty of not participating in the 2MR in the APFT.
        Coded U for that MUTA (unsat performance).
        Was not sent home.
        Was not paid for that MUTA
        Taken off EPS for six months.
        I think that if you are not paid for a MUTA, you cannot have an adverse action happen if not paid. Should either be paid and taken off EPS or not paid and that is the punishment.
        How can you be punished for something that you were not compensated for?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Unsatisfactory attendance Code U

          I'm not sure I have a problem with the situation you described. There's a lot of information you're not providing, but nothing sounds unreasonable to me. If the SM wants to push the issue, the CoC could probably execute a proper Article 15 with the same, or worse of an outcome for the soldier.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Unsatisfactory attendance Code U

            So the SM did not complete the APFT which amounts to a failure. APFT failures get flagged. They were "found guilty" of not participating which means they did something unethical / shady; they probably could have been subject to NJP, instead the CoC decided to code them a U and not pay them. What's the problem? Would the SM prefer to have faced NJP, likely get reduce, have pay taken, and end up with a worse deal than what they got?

            My question is why you didn't just finish the APFT run?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Unsatisfactory attendance Code U

              Originally posted by collk22 View Post
              So the SM did not complete the APFT which amounts to a failure. APFT failures get flagged. They were "found guilty" of not participating which means they did something unethical / shady; they probably could have been subject to NJP, instead the CoC decided to code them a U and not pay them. What's the problem? Would the SM prefer to have faced NJP, likely get reduce, have pay taken, and end up with a worse deal than what they got?

              My question is why you didn't just finish the APFT run?
              Not flagged for the APFT. Treated it as it wasnt taken. Not entered into system. Got a 80 something on the PU and a 90 something on the SU.
              I'm not disagreeing or arguing with you, i'm just trying to get another view point on the subject.
              Last edited by WIBecky74; November 5th, 2012, 09:55 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Unsatisfactory attendance Code U

                Originally posted by WIBecky74 View Post
                Not flagged for the APFT. Treated it as it wasnt taken. Not entered into system.
                I'm not disagreeing or arguing with you, i'm just trying to get another view point on the subject.
                Can't answer that. Although, I was recently told the regs are changing and two consecutive record failures can lead to separation (don't know if that's true, but it came from the full time BN Ops Officer). Could be that the CoC might actually be trying to give the soldier a chance to get squared away. Passing a PT test is a basic requirement and it really isn't that difficult to get a 180. I've never understood why physical fitness is such a challenge in the Guard.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Unsatisfactory attendance Code U

                  Originally posted by WIBecky74 View Post
                  Found guilty of not participating in the 2MR in the APFT.
                  Coded U for that MUTA (unsat performance).
                  Was not sent home.
                  Was not paid for that MUTA
                  Taken off EPS for six months.
                  I think that if you are not paid for a MUTA, you cannot have an adverse action happen if not paid. Should either be paid and taken off EPS or not paid and that is the punishment.
                  How can you be punished for something that you were not compensated for?
                  Sounds like you are not liked by your chain of command. That's never good. Why did you not participate in the 2MR?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Unsatisfactory attendance Code U

                    I do not know about that withholding pay stuff but I have witnessed E-3s and E-4s get busted to E-1 (Field Grade) for shirking the PT test. For example, not going to the turnaround point and run back or hide behind cars so they can pass the run. Dumb thing to do because there is always an NCO watching.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Unsatisfactory attendance Code U

                      You cannot make someone stay at drill and not pay them. (Apparently they did that anyway).

                      If he didn't pass the run, then he should be flagged for PT failure.

                      There has ALWAYS been a rule that said two consecutive failures initiates a seperation packet....just no one does it.

                      There is alot of talk about UCMJ stuff here. Some sort of adverse action maybe could have been taken, A. If they paid him, and B. if your state law allows for it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Unsatisfactory attendance Code U

                        Originally posted by ParalegalNCO1 View Post
                        You cannot make someone stay at drill and not pay them. (Apparently they did that anyway).

                        If he didn't pass the run, then he should be flagged for PT failure.

                        There has ALWAYS been a rule that said two consecutive failures initiates a seperation packet....just no one does it.

                        There is alot of talk about UCMJ stuff here. Some sort of adverse action maybe could have been taken, A. If they paid him, and B. if your state law allows for it.
                        Para schools us all again < /endthread >

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Unsatisfactory attendance Code U

                          So if a stink is made about the no pay, it will probably get worse is what i'm getting from this.
                          It came down to SM not checking in with grader after the 2MR. (SMs side) It was looked into and the decision made by the Co was SM guilty of not participating (no one saw SM on track) in that event. There is no more to the "story".
                          Yes I process flags, bars, and other actions all day long at my Tech job. One failure is a flag, two (consecutive) failures can cause a bar or discharge. 9/10 tmes its a bar, not a discharge at that point.

                          Can they go back and pay the SM and then do the adverse action? I called being taken off the EPS list for 6 months an adverse action, that might not be the proper term for it.
                          Last edited by WIBecky74; November 5th, 2012, 10:23 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Unsatisfactory attendance Code U

                            Originally posted by ParalegalNCO1 View Post
                            You cannot make someone stay at drill and not pay them. (Apparently they did that anyway).

                            If he didn't pass the run, then he should be flagged for PT failure.

                            There has ALWAYS been a rule that said two consecutive failures initiates a seperation packet....just no one does it.

                            There is alot of talk about UCMJ stuff here. Some sort of adverse action maybe could have been taken, A. If they paid him, and B. if your state law allows for it.
                            +1. This is exactly how we would do it.

                            We would still pay the soldier for attending drill. They would just be flagged for failing the APFT. Many times, they would ETS way before the separation packet takes effect anyways.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Unsatisfactory attendance Code U

                              Originally posted by WIBecky74 View Post
                              So if a stink is made about the no pay, it will probably get worse is what i'm getting from this.
                              It came down to SM not checking in with grader after the 2MR. (SMs side) It was looked into and the decision made by the Co was SM guilty of not participating (no one saw SM on track) in that event. There is no more to the "story".
                              Yes I process flags, bars, and other actions all day long at my Tech job. One failure is a flag, two (consecutive) failures can cause a bar or discharge. 9/10 tmes its a bar, not a discharge at that point.

                              Can they go back and pay the SM and then do the adverse action? I called being taken off the EPS list for 6 months an adverse action, that might not be the proper term for it.
                              Removal from the EPS list isn't an adverse action, or anything "action" at all. It is just something they did.

                              I personally would A. Do the run next time, and B. wait a little while until it blows over and then try to get them to pay me $$$$ because in theory, C. yes they could fire him up if they pay him and want to / are allow to by law.

                              What state are you it?

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