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  • #16
    Re: 12Y - Geospatial Engineer

    Thank god I finally found some helpful information on this mos. I joined back in November and I had somewhat of an idea of what the mos was just because of the tiny bits of information I found online but other than that no one has any clue as to what I'm talking about when they ask me about my mos. My recruiter who has been recruiting for almost ten years said he has never even heard of it before. So thanks for all the information guys!

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: 12Y - Geospatial Engineer

      Hey everyone, I'm finishing up my holiday block leave and thought I'd stop in to see the forums. I'm glad to see a few more 12Y's out there. I went to Leonard Wood for AIT on December 8th, spent 2 weeks there before coming home on HBL, and am leaving to go back tomorrow. Here is the dish I can give you so far:

      -All training is at Ft. Leonard Wood, Mo.
      -Classes are small. Think 8-12 on average. Majority male. If you have 2 females in the same class that is not the norm.
      -Barracks are nice. Pretty much brand new. Open since July '12. Generally 2-3 to a room, with a shared bathroom between 2 rooms. Very much like a dorm set up. There is a day room on each floor, both have flat screens and dvd player. Xbox upstairs, Wii down. There is also a workout room but not much equipment.
      -Freedoms are good, weekends off as long as your room is squared away. Sadly not much to do in Leonard Wood, so bring a drive with movies/tv shows on it, and lots of books if you like reading. We have several people learning to play guitar.
      -Wake up is early 0430, and we usually have to compete for space in the 'dome' to not have to workout in the cold.
      -Cadre are great, but give them the respect they deserve. There are a lot of people there right now who act like they have not even been through BCT. Remember to keep your military bearing, always, because there are usually a lot of DS's around outside.
      -If you don't like being on a computer this is not the MOS for you. Class is pretty much M-F all day inside on the comp. No FTX, nothing really outside and active except for PT in the mornings, or if you choose to go to the gym on your own time.
      -I'm pretty sure people in prison are fed better than we are at Wood. The Dfac is seriously, seriously horrible.

      Thats about all I have so far off the top of my head. This is a very small MOS which is in high demand. There are only 1000 soldiers across the entire Army, including active and reserve, in this MOS. Many leave after their first enlistment because they can make a ton of cash in the private sector. There is not a lot of outside homework because all info and projects have to stay in the classroom, but there seem to be a lot of people failing tests, so bring your good study habits. Oh and prey you are not a holdover like I am.....my class was actually supposed to start Dec. 10, but only 2 of us made it through BCT, so we are currently held-over until more people show up to start a class. Now I'm supposed to start the 7th, but I'm not holding my breath.

      I'll be happy to come back and update this post after I start classes and get a few more weeks of that under my belt.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: 12Y - Geospatial Engineer

        Thanks so much for this info. ... I actually just sent you a PM. i hope classes have started for you as planned. Ill direct my questions to the PM though.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: 12Y - Geospatial Engineer

          Don't expect to walk into a great job, especially if you're NG. In this field, it's experience and networking that'll get you a decent job. In the NG, you're just going to have the systems, data sets or experience to be competitive. You're not going to make a ton of cash unless you're a retired NCO or warrant officer.

          Females, it's going to depend on the cycle. The topo field does have quite a few female Soldiers. The classes do tend to be smaller.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: 12Y - Geospatial Engineer

            Sorry in advance lol.. but here are my questions:

            1. Are all 12Ys housed together? Or is it just whichever solders are not in AIT?

            2. Im glad to hear that the freedoms can be earned since Ill be here for 30 weeks… I planned to have my mother bring down my laptop, camera, some reading material and my hard drive for when I do have a little more freedom. Im sure I wont be able to use any of these things at the very beginning, but how many weeks does it actually take to get away from that "BCT vibe"? Assuming good grades, cooperative behavior, ect. Thats really my biggest concern, since Ill be here the entire 30 weeks, It will just feel like a super long basic....

            3. Since theres only 8-12 people/class, would you say the 12Ys are expected to “stick together?” I definitely have no problem with this.. but Im wondering because the classes are so small, I would assume the cadre would be disappointed if we aren’t helping each other do better on these tests?

            4. And if someone does fail one too many tests, are they given the opportunity to repeat that course?

            5. You said in the PM that you did not graduate from BCT at FLW, so Im not sure if you’d have the answer to this, but do you know if we are allowed to go off base with our families during the gap between BCT and AIT? My AIT start date is 20131021… and I graduate BCT the previous Thursday … so there is a 4 day gap in between BCT and AIT. Im just curious if my family will be able to stay in the area for the weekend…. Im from Philadelphia so I highly doubt they will be able to come up on short notice while I am in AIT.

            6. I was originally thinking about getting my car to FLW by having my mother drive it up for graduation.. but you say there is nothing really to do in the area. .. Would having a car really make a difference? Would I even be allowed to drive it for a reasonable amount of time in these 30 weeks?

            Thanks for all of your helpful information!!

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: 12Y - Geospatial Engineer

              Well, considering I'm here now and female I think I can speak on our population. Since I've been here (early December) the number of females has never been above 20. We have less than that now and loose another this week. Out of a company of over 100 that is not many... Not to mention there is not a single female instructor.

              As for the job outlook, yes gaining experience from a deployment would be best but you will leave here with essentially an associates degree worth of education not to mention the security clearance. I've already sent my resume off for a couple of entry level jobs and heard back from one for the summer. No, I won't be making 90k a year but you have to start somewhere.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: 12Y - Geospatial Engineer

                I spent 5 years doing this MOS.

                You will not come out with an associates degree. You will only get a Secret clearance. A TS may give you a leg up but a Secret won't. You're correct, this CMF (all of topo) has always been small. This means networking is a huge piece to a decent job. Your experience/skills will depend quite a bit on your det/section leadership. If they know what they are doing and can sell the products, you can get good experience. If they can't, you'll be a Kinko's. Of the Engineer field, topo usually has quite a few females. In my class, half the class was female.


                seenicole215, I wouldn't plan on a car while your there. There's very little around FLW and you will not be paid for your return trip back to your state. Also, your AIT cadre may not even let you have a POV. It's been a while since I've been AIT but the tests weren't super hard, you just had to pay attention to detail. If you were to fail the course, it would be up to your state whether or not you got another chance or were reclassed.

                It's not a bash against the field, it is good MOS. Just keep it in perspective.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: 12Y - Geospatial Engineer

                  Hi Nicole, for some reason your post didn't pop up the last time I responded to this thread. I'll do my best to answer your questions!


                  1. Are all 12Ys housed together? Or is it just whichever solders are not in AIT?

                  Yes, we all live in the Echo Company barracks, including the MOS-T's. Those are the soldiers (generally NCO's but not always) who are re-classing from another MOS. Everyone who lives here is in AIT. Based on some of your other questions, I think you might have the impression this is an OSUT MOS, which it is not. You will come here, do BCT in one company, then transfer over for AIT to us.

                  2. Im glad to hear that the freedoms can be earned since Ill be here for 30 weeks… I planned to have my mother bring down my laptop, camera, some reading material and my hard drive for when I do have a little more freedom. Im sure I wont be able to use any of these things at the very beginning, but how many weeks does it actually take to get away from that "BCT vibe"? Assuming good grades, cooperative behavior, ect. Thats really my biggest concern, since Ill be here the entire 30 weeks, It will just feel like a super long basic....

                  Again, this isn't OSUT, so once you leave BCT you will no longer be in that BCT mode. Although, things are changing rapidly here at Echo Company...we do not have the same amount of privileges that we had even in January, so there is no telling what it will be like by the time you get here at the end of the year. Our main platoon sgt leaves July, and he is the only 12Y out of all of them. I say that because many people who are not 12Y's and have not been through this actual program do not understand the stresses that come from the course. Anyway, all of those things you will be allowed to have right away when you get here to the AIT portion, unless things change.

                  3. Since theres only 8-12 people/class, would you say the 12Ys are expected to “stick together?” I definitely have no problem with this.. but Im wondering because the classes are so small, I would assume the cadre would be disappointed if we aren’t helping each other do better on these tests?

                  Well, there is a fine line here. A lot of people have the impression that this is going to be like college...I know I did...and there are some aspects that are like that. However, you are not really doing much work outside of class. Everything is done in the classroom on the computer and you are not allowed to take any of the data home with you. So there really isn't much studying or homework going on. Absolutely help your battles out while in class, but the policy is you are not supposed to talk with any of the other classes about what is going on, tests, etc. As a social aspect, generally we all stick together. Unless you know some people that are going to be here for another MOS, we eat, sleep, study and spend time together on the weekends.

                  4. And if someone does fail one too many tests, are they given the opportunity to repeat that course?

                  The policy is you can fail two tests before you get recycled to another class. How far back you get recycled depends on whether or not there are open seats in a class. For example, we have had several people in classes ahead of mine get recycled, but because my class was full they got recycled WAY back to classes they probably shouldn't have been in. This is all up to the discretion of the instructor as well. We have people in my class who have failed more than two tests, but the instructors determined that the reasons they failed were not enough reason to recycle them. If you fail too many tests however, you will get reclassed.

                  5. You said in the PM that you did not graduate from BCT at FLW, so Im not sure if you’d have the answer to this, but do you know if we are allowed to go off base with our families during the gap between BCT and AIT? My AIT start date is 20131021… and I graduate BCT the previous Thursday … so there is a 4 day gap in between BCT and AIT. Im just curious if my family will be able to stay in the area for the weekend…. Im from Philadelphia so I highly doubt they will be able to come up on short notice while I am in AIT.

                  I cannot answer that for sure, as things seem to be different with every BCT company, but I spoke with some of my battles who went here for BCT and the general idea seems to be you will have Family Day on Thursday, followed by Graduation on Friday (or vice versa) and then you will get up early Saturday morning and be brought over here to inprocess into this unit. Now I will tell you that we generally have weekends off, so you may at some point be able to spend time with your family Saturday and/or Sunday, but it will probably be limited to on-post. Once you inprocess here you are under Echo Company rules and the policy is no off-post pass until you are Star Certified, which doesn't happen until you have been here about a month and then you only get one in your ASU's.

                  6. I was originally thinking about getting my car to FLW by having my mother drive it up for graduation.. but you say there is nothing really to do in the area. .. Would having a car really make a difference? Would I even be allowed to drive it for a reasonable amount of time in these 30 weeks?

                  Big no go on the vehicle. We are not allowed to drive at all, so there is no point as you will not be allowed to use it. We are not even allowed to have bicycles. There are on-post taxis that will take you everywhere for $1.40 or you can walk. And we really don't get off-post privileges anyway.



                  Originally posted by RedLeg View Post
                  I spent 5 years doing this MOS.

                  You will not come out with an associates degree. You will only get a Secret clearance. A TS may give you a leg up but a Secret won't. You're correct, this CMF (all of topo) has always been small. This means networking is a huge piece to a decent job. Your experience/skills will depend quite a bit on your det/section leadership. If they know what they are doing and can sell the products, you can get good experience. If they can't, you'll be a Kinko's. Of the Engineer field, topo usually has quite a few females. In my class, half the class was female.


                  seenicole215, I wouldn't plan on a car while your there. There's very little around FLW and you will not be paid for your return trip back to your state. Also, your AIT cadre may not even let you have a POV. It's been a while since I've been AIT but the tests weren't super hard, you just had to pay attention to detail. If you were to fail the course, it would be up to your state whether or not you got another chance or were reclassed.

                  It's not a bash against the field, it is good MOS. Just keep it in perspective.
                  Now to address this, I'm certainly not meaning any disrespect here, but it sounds like things have changed a bit in this program since you were involved. You mention topo, so I'm assuming you were in this MOS before it really moved to the intelligence field? MI is actually fighting to take this MOS away from the Engineers as we are much more analysts now than we are map makers.

                  At anyrate, I didn't say you will come out with an associates degree, I said you will come out with what is essentially an associates degree worth of education in an 18 week course. And we are all TS/SCI now, not just a Secret clearance. I actually have a battle here now who graduated 2 weeks ago and is still stuck here because his TS got screwed up and he never got his duty station assignment.

                  We have 4 females in my class and that is rare. The class graduating this week has one, as does the next graduating class. Like I said the ratio is very small. You'll find that out when you are stuck doing fireguard all the time because there aren't enough of us!


                  And on a general note to anyone in the future who may be reading this because they are considering this MOS:

                  This is the 4th most failed MOS course in the Army...behind Divers, EOD and Linguists. If you are not into computers or a detail oriented person, this job is not for you. Save yourself some trouble and reclass now. Not trying to discourage anyone, just trying to help some people not waste their time. This is a long MOS and I'd hate to be stuck here and halfway through fail out only to reclass anyway and need to start all over again. If you do not like sitting at a desk in front of a computer 8 hours a day, turn and run now. We have many many people here now who's recruiters talked them into this MOS, or told them it was going to be something its not. There is no FTX in full battle rattle with rifles, or any other hooah hooah type stuff. There is nothing but computers Monday through Friday.

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                  • #24
                    Re: 12Y - Geospatial Engineer

                    Yep.... I did think my time a FLW would be like OSUT but I understand better now. Thanks alot.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: 12Y - Geospatial Engineer

                      Ok hopefully someone can answer a few of my questions. I am going to be attending the 12Y course as a MOS T soldier this JULY to December and I can't seem to find anyone that can give me information on what it is like to be there as a MOS T. I will only be an E4 so I'm just curious as to how I will be treated. Earlier in this thread you said that POV's and bicycles are a no go. Is that for all soldiers period or do MOS T have different rules? Also I am hoping to do some college classes online while I am there this fall. I do realize that it will be alot of work but with the time that you are allowed is it a reasonable thought? or is it not feasible?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: 12Y - Geospatial Engineer

                        Slevin, I went through the GEC, straight out of BCT, from July to December 2010, when it was still at Belvoir. In my experience, the MOS Ts had a much more relaxed experience than us Soldiers who were fresh out of basic. Most of the MOS Ts drove their POVs all of the time and were under much, much less supervision from the cadre than the rest of us. I can't say for sure that it's the same way now at Leonard Wood, but if I were you I would relax and not worry, you'll be treated better because you are an MOS T. As for college classes in the evenings, that would be very challenging. I'm not saying that you shouldn't try, but it would be a tall order. The course is demanding, the mornings are early and the days are long. But with being at Leonard Wood, and having limited weekend options, maybe you could knock out homework on Saturdays and Sundays. Best of luck.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: 12Y - Geospatial Engineer

                          Because you will be an MOS-T you will have many more freedoms and privileges than the rest of us, even as an E-4. We have PFC's here as MOS-T's right now. As I said before, the rules are changing, in fact we are under lockdown right now because of discipline problems, so things could be different for you once you get here. But even if they tighten things up it should still be fairly easy going for you. You will still have to do PT with us in the mornings (except right now on Wednesdays MOS-T's get to go to the gym). You get released from PT before we do and you have more time to change, drive to wherever you decide to have breakfast and get to class. Class is the same for everyone, but at the end of the day when the rest of us are stuck there cleaning up the rooms/hallway/latrines you guys just get to leave and go on about the rest of your day. Evenings and weekends are totally free to you. You live in the barracks with us, but on your own floor with more privileges as to what you can have in your rooms.

                          I think it would be possible to take maybe one online class, but once you get into the final phase of study for the program I wouldn't want to be trying to do that and more than one class. The course can get stressful and sometimes its nice to just have that break on the weekends/evenings.

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                          • #28
                            Re: 12Y - Geospatial Engineer

                            Any updates to this thread?

                            I'm interest in enlisting in active, reserves, or guard and my recruiter said that its a 10% chance 12y comes up. Is this MOS overmanned? Or very popular?

                            I love maps and think this is a great MOS.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: 12Y - Geospatial Engineer

                              I wouldn't say this MOS is overmanned, but I would say that most units are still trying to figure out what to do with us. A vast majority of people I have run into have no idea what we do. They see the word 'engineer' and assume we are the same as all the other 12 series, but really we are not at all. This MOS should be in MI, but considering its the oldest MOS is the Engineer Corps it will probably never go that way. There are only about 1000 of us Army-wide.

                              If you go active you have a good chance of getting stationed in Hawaii or Korea right now, followed by Bragg. If you go Airborne you will end up at Bragg for sure. I have friends in units who do nothing with the MOS, but most at least work on something to do with it several times a week. It seems to be a very rare MOS for the Reserves; we only had 3-5 Reserve soldiers in our entire Company at any one time in AIT. There are a lot of Guard units using us, but being able to actually do your job might be rare. This is a very expensive MOS to fund: the equipment, software, etc is high dollar, and your unit might not have anything. My unit doesn't and we have three 12Y's with a slot for a 4th. I spend a lot of time in the motorpool. I also have friends in the Georgia Guard who can't do their jobs due to lack of equipment.

                              The job itself is very cool, and if you have a personal interest in it I say go for it. But your chances of actually functioning as a 12Y are best on Active Duty, followed by Guard and then Reserves. I took it for the security clearance and the hopes of finding a civilian job in GIS when I got home, but most employers want 3-5 years experience, and I haven't been able to even get an interview since coming home from AIT in May.

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                              • #30
                                Re: 12Y - Geospatial Engineer

                                I'm prior service 19K (Armor Crewman @ E5) '91-'97, WI National Guard. I finished PLDC and was honorably discharged. I'm thinking about joining again. I'm 41yrs old and have a Masters degree in Urban Planning and Policy Analysis. Since '97 I've been exclusively using GIS. I've been GIS Coordinator for the City of Chicago and the University of IL at Chicago for a total of 16+ yrs. I've worked in disaster preparedness and policy analysis nearly the whole time while using GIS. I've reported to the senior level people at both orgs.

                                My question is I'd like to go WO route 125D but since I don't have security clearance I'm being told to enlist as 12Y, spend a few months at my local guard unit, then go to WOCC for 5-7 weeks and then ship to Geospatial Engineer Technician. Total school time looks to be about 6 months for both.

                                I'm pretty skilled at ArcGIS, spatial analyst, network analyst, etc but lacking on image analysis or the military aspects of the job. Any thoughts?

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