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  • #16
    Re: Not letting in anyone with depression or anxiety in their past?

    Originally posted by achabot661 View Post
    what about if you are taking medications? i heared in the past that the military doesnt take anyone who is currently taking medications im wondering if the National Guard is different
    Is the National Guard a military organization? Bueller?

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Not letting in anyone with depression or anxiety in their past?

      Originally posted by RyCass View Post
      I have to agree with you on this one, especially with a medical history of depression. There is a reason Soldiers are coming back with PTSD issues and as a whole we are experiencing high rates of suicide: being a Soldier is challenging and requires all of us to perform at our best. An applicant knowingly enlisting with a predisposition of clinical depression is putting themselves and their comrades in danger. On this issue, is it possible to omit your medical history? Absolutely. In good conscience, I must stress the importance of being honest, even if it bars an applicant from enlisting.
      The rates of suicides in the military are no different from those in the general population. The claims of soldiers killing themselves at an unprecedented rate are being made by disingenuous parties with the intent of destroying the reputation of the military, as I clearly point out here.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Not letting in anyone with depression or anxiety in their past?

        Originally posted by jwarren View Post
        The rates of suicides in the military are no different from those in the general population. The claims of soldiers killing themselves at an unprecedented rate are being made by disingenuous parties with the intent of destroying the reputation of the military, as I clearly point out here.
        3 hour suicide prevention briefings could be condensed into a couple of pictures of failed suicides.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Not letting in anyone with depression or anxiety in their past?

          Originally posted by jwarren View Post
          The rates of suicides in the military are no different from those in the general population. The claims of soldiers killing themselves at an unprecedented rate are being made by disingenuous parties with the intent of destroying the reputation of the military, as I clearly point out here.
          I will agree with you on the "unprecedented" rate and that is also related to deployments. The data will tell a different story.

          http://www.defense.gov/Releases/Rele...eleaseID=15634

          The Army released suicide data today for the month of September. During September, among active-duty soldiers, there were 15 potential suicides: one has been confirmed as suicide and 14 remain under investigation. For August, the Army reported 16 potential suicides among active-duty soldiers. Since the release of that report, one case was removed for a total of 15 cases: five have been confirmed as suicides and 10 remain under investigation. For 2012, there have been 146 potential active-duty suicides: 91 have been confirmed as suicides and 55 remain under investigation. Active-duty suicide number for 2011: 165 confirmed as suicides and no cases under investigation.
          During September, among reserve component soldiers who were not on active duty, there were 16 potential suicides (13 Army National Guard and three Army Reserve): one has been confirmed as suicide and 15 remain under investigation. For August, among that same group, the Army reported nine potential suicides. Since the release of that report two cases were added for a total of 11 cases (seven Army National Guard and four Army Reserve): five have been confirmed as suicides and six remain under investigation.
          For 2012, there have been 101 potential not on active-duty suicides (67 Army National Guard and 34 Army Reserve): 67 have been confirmed as suicides and 34 remain under investigation. Not on active-duty suicide numbers for 2011: 118 (82 Army National Guard and 36 Army Reserve) confirmed as suicides and no cases under investigation.

          More can be seen at the above link.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Not letting in anyone with depression or anxiety in their past?

            Originally posted by fmcityslicker View Post
            I will agree with you on the "unprecedented" rate and that is also related to deployments. The data will tell a different story.

            http://www.defense.gov/Releases/Rele...eleaseID=15634

            The Army released suicide data today for the month of September. During September, among active-duty soldiers, there were 15 potential suicides: one has been confirmed as suicide and 14 remain under investigation. For August, the Army reported 16 potential suicides among active-duty soldiers. Since the release of that report, one case was removed for a total of 15 cases: five have been confirmed as suicides and 10 remain under investigation. For 2012, there have been 146 potential active-duty suicides: 91 have been confirmed as suicides and 55 remain under investigation. Active-duty suicide number for 2011: 165 confirmed as suicides and no cases under investigation.
            During September, among reserve component soldiers who were not on active duty, there were 16 potential suicides (13 Army National Guard and three Army Reserve): one has been confirmed as suicide and 15 remain under investigation. For August, among that same group, the Army reported nine potential suicides. Since the release of that report two cases were added for a total of 11 cases (seven Army National Guard and four Army Reserve): five have been confirmed as suicides and six remain under investigation.
            For 2012, there have been 101 potential not on active-duty suicides (67 Army National Guard and 34 Army Reserve): 67 have been confirmed as suicides and 34 remain under investigation. Not on active-duty suicide numbers for 2011: 118 (82 Army National Guard and 36 Army Reserve) confirmed as suicides and no cases under investigation.

            More can be seen at the above link.
            Right. My point is that without a rigorous statistical analysis (including a per capita comparison to the general population), all of the hysterics surrounding military suicide rates are completely unwarranted. If the per capita rate of suicide in the military is statistically indistinguishable from that of the general population (as it appears to be based on the links I provided), then all of the increased attention being paid to this issue is a wasteful and distracting misallocation of resources, not to mention a major morale killer.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Not letting in anyone with depression or anxiety in their past?

              Originally posted by jwarren View Post
              Right. My point is that without a rigorous statistical analysis (including a per capita comparison to the general population), all of the hysterics surrounding military suicide rates are completely unwarranted. If the per capita rate of suicide in the military is statistically indistinguishable from that of the general population (as it appears to be based on the links I provided), then all of the increased attention being paid to this issue is a wasteful and distracting misallocation of resources, not to mention a major morale killer.
              ...as opposed to the usual misallocation of resources...

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Not letting in anyone with depression or anxiety in their past?

                Originally posted by Polo08816 View Post
                ...as opposed to the usual misallocation of resources...
                Touché. It's a bit refreshing in that context.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Not letting in anyone with depression or anxiety in their past?

                  And I do support that the military is focusing on the "one too many" effort in its suicide prevention goal. Not to sound cold and no where am I a professional in this matter but this is a part of life that even with the proper education and awareness; will never, ever be fully preventable. It is like teenage pregnancy, murder and poverty. There will always be a part of the human species/segment of society that will fall into these categories no matter what you do to prevent it. Sadly and realistically, this is the bad that happens in life.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Not letting in anyone with depression or anxiety in their past?

                    Originally posted by jwarren View Post
                    The rates of suicides in the military are no different from those in the general population. The claims of soldiers killing themselves at an unprecedented rate are being made by disingenuous parties with the intent of destroying the reputation of the military, as I clearly point out here.
                    Very interesting information. I won't argue that the numbers may have some hype surrounding them. However, my point still remains. If an applicant knowingly has issues dealing with challenges (I'm speaking primarily of those with clinical depression), they should take an honest look at what it means to be a Soldier. There are stressors that are unique to this calling that even the most well rounded individual would struggle with. This is a reality that needs to be acknowledged. It's not a personal affront. Personally, I would rather the Military take a precautionary stance than a more apathetic one. One suicide (attempts included) is one too many. Especially because there is evidence that taking preventive measures can help those on the edge pull through.

                    I've posted this before, but I want to say again that I actually really enjoy the newer suicide prevention program that the National Guard is using. You know, it use to be a running joke sitting in front of power point slides with the same dramatized scenarios displayed every year. Death by power point, right? It was a very passive way to learn. No one really got much out of it and unless a unit had experienced suicide first hand, it seemed like just another box to check off for the FY. The program now focuses on being a whole individual outside of just a Soldier, the scenarios are applied to every day life, and there's a different movement in the Military mentality that being a good Soldier doesn't mean perfection or being impervious. It really is OK to feel weak and to ask for help. The strongest individuals are not without challenges but know how to use the resources in the people around them; they know how to be honest with themselves and identify where they need support. This is something EVERYONE can benefit from.

                    I'm a little bit on a soap box here, and I apologize. I don't mean to run away with this topic. The point I really want to make is this: yes, it is frustrating to see the Military be put under a spotlight for something that isn't uniquely a Military problem. It really does paint an unrealistic picture. However, there are still suicides happening in the Military, regardless of the numbers. It's a serious matter to withhold medical information that can affect your performance. I am all for different opinions and perspectives on this. But my stand will always be honesty. It's not worth the risk in my mind.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Not letting in anyone with depression or anxiety in their past?

                      Originally posted by RyCass View Post
                      I'm a little bit on a soap box here, and I apologize. I don't mean to run away with this topic. The point I really want to make is this: yes, it is frustrating to see the Military be put under a spotlight for something that isn't uniquely a Military problem. It really does paint an unrealistic picture. However, there are still suicides happening in the Military, regardless of the numbers. It's a serious matter to withhold medical information that can affect your performance. I am all for different opinions and perspectives on this. But my stand will always be honesty. It's not worth the risk in my mind.
                      My beef is not with the initiative to reduce military suicides; obviously, all other things being equal, fewer suicides is better. The problem is that we keep hearing senior military leaders mindlessly droning on and on about "increased rates of suicides" which simply do not exist. Furthermore, by continuously harping on this issue, the stereotype of the dysfunctional veteran is perpetuated. The perpetuation of this stereotype serves the interests of certain groups in this country with designs on the transformation of the traditional patriarchal military into something compatible with their social engineering initiatives, which is clearly at odds with maintaining the military structure which has been vital to not only our national defense but also our national identity. And yet, senior military "leaders" stand there and obsess over this non-issue and never once mention any cold, hard statistics. It's an Orwellian nightmare, straight out of 1984.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Not letting in anyone with depression or anxiety in their past?

                        Originally posted by RyCass View Post
                        Very interesting information. I won't argue that the numbers may have some hype surrounding them. However, my point still remains. If an applicant knowingly has issues dealing with challenges (I'm speaking primarily of those with clinical depression), they should take an honest look at what it means to be a Soldier. There are stressors that are unique to this calling that even the most well rounded individual would struggle with. This is a reality that needs to be acknowledged. It's not a personal affront. Personally, I would rather the Military take a precautionary stance than a more apathetic one. One suicide (attempts included) is one too many. Especially because there is evidence that taking preventive measures can help those on the edge pull through.

                        I've posted this before, but I want to say again that I actually really enjoy the newer suicide prevention program that the National Guard is using. You know, it use to be a running joke sitting in front of power point slides with the same dramatized scenarios displayed every year. Death by power point, right? It was a very passive way to learn. No one really got much out of it and unless a unit had experienced suicide first hand, it seemed like just another box to check off for the FY. The program now focuses on being a whole individual outside of just a Soldier, the scenarios are applied to every day life, and there's a different movement in the Military mentality that being a good Soldier doesn't mean perfection or being impervious. It really is OK to feel weak and to ask for help. The strongest individuals are not without challenges but know how to use the resources in the people around them; they know how to be honest with themselves and identify where they need support. This is something EVERYONE can benefit from.

                        I'm a little bit on a soap box here, and I apologize. I don't mean to run away with this topic. The point I really want to make is this: yes, it is frustrating to see the Military be put under a spotlight for something that isn't uniquely a Military problem. It really does paint an unrealistic picture. However, there are still suicides happening in the Military, regardless of the numbers. It's a serious matter to withhold medical information that can affect your performance. I am all for different opinions and perspectives on this. But my stand will always be honesty. It's not worth the risk in my mind.
                        Excellent post and this is probably the stance the military is taking in regards to enlistments.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Not letting in anyone with depression or anxiety in their past?

                          New suicide article on military.com

                          http://www.military.com/daily-news/2...1075741&rank=1

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Not letting in anyone with depression or anxiety in their past?

                            Thanks, fmcityslicker! I agree.

                            jwarren, I think you bring up some valid concerns. Unfortunately, as members in the Military, we can't change other organizations outside of our own, but we can change ourselves within. What I take from your post is that there is a breakdown in leadership on this issue; primarily in being informed. Hopefully, and I know this is optimistic, new recruits will read these threads and learn a thing or two about being in a leadership position and how important effective communication is. If we can change our leaders, our image will change regardless of what the media says. Besides, there will always be naysayers . We could be a perfect force of nature, but that will never change.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Not letting in anyone with depression or anxiety in their past?

                              Originally posted by RyCass View Post
                              Thanks, fmcityslicker! I agree.

                              jwarren, I think you bring up some valid concerns. Unfortunately, as members in the Military, we can't change other organizations outside of our own, but we can change ourselves within. What I take from your post is that there is a breakdown in leadership on this issue; primarily in being informed. Hopefully, and I know this is optimistic, new recruits will read these threads and learn a thing or two about being in a leadership position and how important effective communication is. If we can change our leaders, our image will change regardless of what the media says. Besides, there will always be naysayers . We could be a perfect force of nature, but that will never change.
                              I am a bit more cynical than that.

                              Personally, I don't think it's an issue of "not knowing." Perhaps they genuinely don't know, but if that's the case, then one must wonder how it is that these flag grade officers have not bothered to just take a look at the factual basis of the claims they are making.

                              In my mind, it is much more likely that these flag grades understand that to oppose the image of the broken, beaten, suicidal veteran is to oppose the political currents of the day. This would constitute career suicide. Given that understanding, the mere facts of the situation are quite irrelevant. It doesn't actually matter if their claims about military suicides are true or not; to not make them -- let alone oppose them -- is to turn in one's stars.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Not letting in anyone with depression or anxiety in their past?

                                Interesting report at http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/1...uicide-101512/

                                LONGVIEW, Wash. — A 20-year-old soldier from Longview killed herself in Afghanistan last December as she served alone in a guard tower, where she was stationed despite a long history of mental-health issues that was not communicated to her supervisors, according to a new report.An Army investigation determined that Spc. Mikayla Bragg’s commanding officers were never told she had made an apparent previous suicide attempt while serving stateside in Fort Knox, even though officials at the Kentucky base knew of it, The Daily News of Longview reported. The newspaper obtained the investigation report through a Freedom of Information Act request.

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