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  • Waiver procedure

    So after the debacle noted in my previous thread (recruiter didn't actually send off my waiver paperwork and left me hanging for nearly half a year), I got a new recruiter who submitted my paperwork to National MEPS. When I called to get the status of it a few weeks later, the recruiting office said he was out on extended sick leave and so I was getting passed on to another recruiter (who becomes the fifth in my saga... *sigh*). He checked in on the status and found it was at my state's headquarters now. He seemed hesitant to answer much on questions until he found out more from the state office (and I don't blame him, again considering the history of misinformation given to me by a previous recruiter) but I wondered if y'all might think my reasoning is somewhat sound.

    Does National MEPS give anything other than a thumbs up or down for waivers after they're done processing it? I ask because if my stuff is back at the state headquarters for further processing, can I presume that means the waiver was approved? After all, if it were denied I can't think there being any more processing to do.

  • #2
    Re: Waiver procedure

    Originally posted by deepsouth View Post
    So after the debacle noted in my previous thread (recruiter didn't actually send off my waiver paperwork and left me hanging for nearly half a year), I got a new recruiter who submitted my paperwork to National MEPS. When I called to get the status of it a few weeks later, the recruiting office said he was out on extended sick leave and so I was getting passed on to another recruiter (who becomes the fifth in my saga... *sigh*). He checked in on the status and found it was at my state's headquarters now. He seemed hesitant to answer much on questions until he found out more from the state office (and I don't blame him, again considering the history of misinformation given to me by a previous recruiter) but I wondered if y'all might think my reasoning is somewhat sound.

    Does National MEPS give anything other than a thumbs up or down for waivers after they're done processing it? I ask because if my stuff is back at the state headquarters for further processing, can I presume that means the waiver was approved? After all, if it were denied I can't think there being any more processing to do.
    It's hard to continue to wait it out, but unfortunately once you submit your waiver, its out of everyone's hands. You're just going to have to wait and see what the verdict is. If you're wondering if they give a detailed reason for their decision, it's my understand that no, you will not get a break down.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Waiver procedure

      Originally posted by RyCass View Post
      It's hard to continue to wait it out, but unfortunately once you submit your waiver, its out of everyone's hands. You're just going to have to wait and see what the verdict is. If you're wondering if they give a detailed reason for their decision, it's my understand that no, you will not get a break down.
      Oh, I'm well aware there won't be any rationale given. I'm just wondering if, once the paperwork has been sent from National MEPS back to the state headquarters, that means they actually have come to a decision (and if so is there a more regular timeline to delivering it to folks)? Or is it possible that it will get sent back to National MEPS again for more review?

      P.S. waiting a few weeks is one thing, I'm at month seven after MEPS, over a year after going through Path to Honor ;-)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Waiver procedure

        I wasn't necessarily looking for a breakdown of the rationale, more of a breakdown of the waiver procedure. Call me distrustful (I am, with reason), but I just like to make sure the procedure I'm being told is what it is in reality.

        I guess I'm not seeing much of a need for my paperwork to return to my state headquarters and be processed for anything more than a handful of minutes before it gets forwarded to my recruiter once National MEPS is done with it. Is this normal for medical waivers for the state to have to process them further for another few weeks?

        I wouldn't be so irritated by the wait if it weren't for (A) my distrust of recruiters after the last one and (B) it's coming on 7 months since MEPS and there's only about five pages of medical documentation for them to review.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Waiver procedure

          National MEPS? I never heard of that before.

          Anyway, from personal experience, what is told and what really is may not be distinguishable. Even though you have recommendations, a psych waiver is a very delicate issue due to the amount of suicides in today's military. You can feel distrustful and angry but the matter is beyond your control. Ultimately, the powers that be will decide if you can embark on military service; not you and nobody here has the answer. Personally, from the environments that we operate in, I will be reluctant to have anyone with history of a mental event to serve because you cannot predict if that will become a detriment to the service and to prevent future liability on the government, it is best to keep that individual away from military service. Just IMHO.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Waiver procedure

            Originally posted by deepsouth View Post
            it's coming on 7 months since MEPS and there's only about five pages of medical documentation for them to review.
            Here's the thing people don't seem to get. You may only have 5 pages of documentation, but you may be sitting under a stack of 300 Soldiers who also have 5 pages of documenation each. Also, no one is probably in a rush to get through that big stack as recruiting goals are being met with out having to let people in the big "waiver" stack in.

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            • #7
              Re: Waiver procedure

              Originally posted by fmcityslicker View Post
              National MEPS? I never heard of that before.

              Anyway, from personal experience, what is told and what really is may not be distinguishable. Even though you have recommendations, a psych waiver is a very delicate issue due to the amount of suicides in today's military. You can feel distrustful and angry but the matter is beyond your control. Ultimately, the powers that be will decide if you can embark on military service; not you and nobody here has the answer. Personally, from the environments that we operate in, I will be reluctant to have anyone with history of a mental event to serve because you cannot predict if that will become a detriment to the service and to prevent future liability on the government, it is best to keep that individual away from military service. Just IMHO.
              I'm presuming by National MEPS he probably means the NGB / waiver authority.

              If one can't distinguish what procedure really is from what one is told it is, how is anyone supposed to go through the recruiting process? I'm not angry, I'm just distrustful and want to know I can trust the current recruiter. That's why I turned to this forum, to try to see if what I'm being told jives with reality, or if I'll need yet another recruiter and/or speak with his NCOIC. The regs are woefully nondescript in the procedure for waivers, effectively saying "submit to this waiver authority", but without outlining, for instance, that (1) recruiter submits paperwork to authority, (2) authority processes it, (3) authority sends paperwork to X, (4) X sends it to Y who waits on Z, (5) Y sends it to recruiter. If there is such a reg and I've just overlooked it, I'd be most grateful if anyone could point me in the right direction.

              And...going a bit off topic... "mental event"? I have never had such a thing. There are a many different types of psychologic and psychiatric conditions and unfortunately the medical standards (like much of the general population who thinks anyone with a mental illness is a psycho ready to snap and kill someone or themselves at anytime), while making pretty detailed distinctions in physical health standards, makes far less distinction in mental health. The only leeway it gives is for adjustment and learning disorders. Even someone who is now a competitive mountain climber, regular skydiver and paraglider, and who works in skyscraper construction would be disqualified without exception because of a prior history of treated acrophobia (but I hope we could agree he's demonstrated quite predictably that he's not going to have a recurrence of acrophobia and that his treatment was amply successful).


              @HR NCO: they might be meeting it in other states, but in mine the numbers aren't as high as they want, with a very high need for officers (the OCS recruiter told me that they're struggling to meet quotas and many of those eventually don't make captain because they are coming in with 90 hours but never finish their degree).

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Waiver procedure

                The regs are woefully nondescript in the procedure for waivers, effectively saying "submit to this waiver authority", but without outlining, for instance, that (1) recruiter submits paperwork to authority, (2) authority processes it, (3) authority sends paperwork to X, (4) X sends it to Y who waits on Z, (5) Y sends it to recruiter.
                Actually, the regulations ARE very specific as to who submits the waiver, and who is the deciding entity. I understand that you are frustrated, but it sounds like your waiver has reached the top of the decision making process and at this point, the only thing you can do is sit back and wait. Changing recruiters won't do you any good, because they don't have any control of your waiver either.

                And...going a bit off topic... "mental event"? I have never had such a thing. There are a many different types of psychologic and psychiatric conditions and unfortunately the medical standards (like much of the general population who thinks anyone with a mental illness is a psycho ready to snap and kill someone or themselves at anytime), while making pretty detailed distinctions in physical health standards, makes far less distinction in mental health. The only leeway it gives is for adjustment and learning disorders.
                This is also entirely not true. Have you taken the time to read the regulation? I will provide it for you: AR 40-501. Please read Chapter 2-27. There is also a memorandum from the DoD that states the current Mental Health standards that I would recommend you read: DoDi 6130.03. As you can see, mental health standards are much more specific than you claim. Again, I understand you're frustrated, but it would wise to get more informed about how eligibility is determined instead of presenting opinions that are false.

                If you have any questions about these regulations, please don't hesitate to get clarification.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Waiver procedure

                  Originally posted by RyCass View Post
                  Actually, the regulations ARE very specific as to who submits the waiver, and who is the deciding entity. I understand that you are frustrated, but it sounds like your waiver has reached the top of the decision making process and at this point, the only thing you can do is sit back and wait. Changing recruiters won't do you any good, because they don't have any control of your waiver either.


                  This is very true!!! My waiver is with the NGB right now and as my recruiter told me today, "It is out of my hands, there is nothing I can do to speed up the process." Once it goes to the NGB the recruiters have no say in when it gets reviewed or what the decision is. Try being in my shoes when I have an age time crunch!
                  Best of luck to you - keep us posted!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Waiver procedure

                    Originally posted by RyCass View Post
                    This is also entirely not true. Have you taken the time to read the regulation? I will provide it for you: AR 40-501. Please read Chapter 2-27. There is also a memorandum from the DoD that states the current Mental Health standards that I would recommend you read: DoDi 6130.03. As you can see, mental health standards are much more specific than you claim. Again, I understand you're frustrated, but it would wise to get more informed about how eligibility is determined instead of presenting opinions that are false.
                    We must just have a very different view on specificity/generality on this. Detailed for mental health for me would have included mention of the GAF for the various conditions for instance. Anorexia with a GAF of 90 is very different than anorexia with a GAF of 40. The way the memorandum presents ADHD, for instance, is what I see as being specific, and it seems the standards are starting to be improving in terms of specificity. I wouldn't have expect, though, to need to look for memoranda on top of the existing regulations. I'll make sure to start searching for those as well in the future.

                    Originally posted by robinpugs06 View Post
                    This is very true!!! My waiver is with the NGB right now and as my recruiter told me today, "It is out of my hands, there is nothing I can do to speed up the process." Once it goes to the NGB the recruiters have no say in when it gets reviewed or what the decision is. Try being in my shoes when I have an age time crunch!
                    Best of luck to you - keep us posted!
                    Yes absolutely! But things are only out of the recruiter's hands, well, once they're actually out of the recruiter's hands :-). This is the problem that I had: the previous recruiter swore that things were sent in and I only found out months later that he had been lying. Hence my concern now when things just sound a bit off.

                    According to USAREC Reg 601-96, "The exception workflow is routed to the battalion operations section where they review the request and either approve or disapprove the exception. If the approval authority is brigade or higher, they then forward the exception to the brigade operations section. If the brigade cannot approve or disapprove the exception, they will forward the exception to the appropriate HQ USAREC section. When a final disposition is received the results of the workflow are sent back to GCRc, the SGC, and the battalion operations NCO by e-mail informing them of the outcome of the exception."

                    Once processed by the waiver authority, it seems on this reading that the recruiter should get the results at the same time as everyone else. Is this correct?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Waiver procedure

                      Originally posted by deepsouth View Post
                      I wouldn't have expect, though, to need to look for memoranda on top of the existing regulations. I'll make sure to start searching for those as well in the future.
                      No...you wouldn't be expected to go looking for any memorandums. That is not really in your lane, it is the job of the recruiters. The regs, memos, etc. are not made for civilians to understand neccessarily and they don't need to be because its not a civilians job to try to interpret them.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Waiver procedure

                        We must just have a very different view on specificity/generality on this. Detailed for mental health for me would have included mention of the GAF for the various conditions for instance. Anorexia with a GAF of 90 is very different than anorexia with a GAF of 40.
                        Perhaps. Unless, in the case of anorexia, there does not need to be more clarification on the different types because any history of anorexia is a disqualification.

                        DoDi 6130.03: "k. History of anorexia nervosa (307.1) or bulimia (307.51) [is a disqualification]." No waivers are specified

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Waiver procedure

                          Well, turns out fourth/fifth recruiters did do their job and it was actually submitted this time.

                          However, it was denied. The COL, MAJ, cadre at my university, and docs who all submitted documentation to support my case are all pretty flabbergasted. Thanks all here for the help, unfortunately not the result I wanted.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Waiver procedure

                            Believe me when I tell you this: You never want to be on the enlisted side of soldier with psych issues.

                            I'm not calling out any names of people or bases but I've had to deal with several cases of guys that made it through by the skin of their teeth with these kinds of waivers. Here's what happens: In the middle of the night your DS will wake up the entire company and have each PG select a certain number of soldiers to fill a 24-7 watch schedule to watch--one guy.

                            Without disclosing too much info--A battle buddy and I spent two weeks, 8 hours a day, pulling security on a guy that needed to be transported all over the base for various observations as he was being chaptered out because he didn't stick after going downrange. I don't blame the Army for being so sensitive with this issue, particularly, since suicides have gone up drastically in the last couple years. One guy can make life miserable for an entire Cadre and a GROUP of soldiers if not the entire company downrange.
                            Last edited by VICEROY06; August 17th, 2012, 05:00 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Waiver procedure

                              Originally posted by VICEROY06 View Post
                              Believe me when I tell you this: You never want to be on the enlisted side of soldier with psych issues.

                              I'm not calling out any names of people or bases but I've had to deal with several cases of guys that made it through by the skin of their teeth with these kinds of waivers. Here's what happens: In the middle of the night your DS will wake up the entire company and have each PG select a certain number of soldiers to fill a 24-7 watch schedule to watch--one guy.

                              Without disclosing too much info--A battle buddy and I spent two weeks, 8 hours a day, pulling security on a guy that needed to be transported all over the base for various observations as he was being chaptered out because he didn't stick after going downrange. I don't blame the Army for being so sensitive with this issue, particularly, since suicides have gone up drastically in the last couple years. One guy can make life miserable for an entire Cadre and a GROUP of soldiers if not the entire company downrange.
                              So true. We had a guy go AWOL in basic at Fort Leonard Wood. MPs found him at the bus station brought him back and we had suicide watch duty in the barracks. They still tried to get him to finish basic but he just failed to qualify with his rifle and he was chaptered out.

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