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Wavier Delaying Ship to BCT. Advice Saught.

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  • Wavier Delaying Ship to BCT. Advice Saught.

    Hey all,

    This could be posted in a number of forums, but I'm putting it here because this seems to be the forum for wavier related questions.

    I enlisted last November, went to MEPS twice, passed everything, got all the necessary waivers done (and there were a few- I'm 09S and had an arrest on the record), received my security clearance, swore in. Went to six RSP drills and was ready to ship to Fort Leonard Wood for BCT last Tuesday 06/05. Everything should be good, right? Wrong. I got to the airport, and they called me in first to tell me to go home. Turns out a NGB moral wavier was needed on top of the state one I already was granted. That NGB wavier was never applied for, and apparently just came to everyone's attention when my shipping paperwork got brought up.

    The first plan was to send me as a split option the following day, and let the wavier run its course. For whatever reason, that didn't work out. So, I was told that once the wavier was signed off on in 1-2 weeks, I could go as planned. It's quickly approaching the end of that time frame, so I'm opening up my situation to you fine folks for some advice.

    How long might this actually take to process? I'm still excited to go to BCT and take on the challenges there, and I know that paperwork foul-ups happen, and that this one would have never occurred if not for mistakes I made in my past. But practical realities are also a concern. I just graduated college in May, and I quit the part time job I had during school in anticipation of finding more permanent work after getting back from Basic. Might it be wise to start looking for something civilian wise in case this takes an extended amount of time to work itself out?

    Thanks for your input.

    Specialist
    Kentucky Army National Guard

  • #2
    Re: Wavier Delaying Ship to BCT. Advice Saught.

    holy **** this sounds exactly like my situation that all went down at MEPS yesterday - except they caught my NGB waiver approval right before i was about to swear in. I have a DUI on record from 8 years ago that i needed a moral waiver for to enlist 09S. Same thing, my state level was approved with no issues and i was just about to proceed for security clearance questioning, but the NG Liason found the 1 line regulation in her "bible" about needing NGB approval as well.

    This is where my story differs from yours, I was told/instructed that the NGB is not approving 09S Moral Waivers at this time for initial entry candidates. They WILL however accept the waivers for currently enlisted soldiers. Basically, they told me that i will have to pick an enlisted job, go to BCT/AIT and then apply for OCS afterwards. So i left MEPS with a list of 'only' 10 currently available enlisted jobs in my state - NJ.

    I'm thinking about going this route and in the long run may work out to my advantage. I was solely focused on becoming an Infantry Officer, yet i know that when you graduate OCS they branch you according to the needs of the state, your OML, wish list, etc..and that i may not end up with Infantry. However, if i go to BCT/AIT as an 11B(which is currently available in NJ) and then apply for OCS it would make sence that i be branched Infantry due to my prior experience. I'm still making up my mind that this point. The only downside i currently see is that i would be in BCT/AIT for 14-16 weeks instead of just BCT at 10 weeks. Outside of that, i'm looking for recommendations as well (not trying to steal the tread though).

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Wavier Delaying Ship to BCT. Advice Saught.

      You may want to consider the benefits of Loyal's plan.

      While the Officer Candidate enlistment option has become quite popular in recent years it is certainly not the only way to attend OCS if that is your goal.

      I will estimate that only 1/3rd of OCs are O9s with the substantial majority comming from PS enlisted ranks.

      I was on the phone with someone at NGB last week, and they made the comment "The National Guard is like having 50 different Armies". I chuckled, and thought that was a truisim of sorts. Many of these selection processes are state specific. For example, in NJ apparently (according to Loyal), they create an Order of Merit List based on avalible slots and assign a branch to each OC Graduate. Some states are much more permissive, allowing a first come, first serve policy upon local commander approval.

      The NGB waiver process is also fickle. It is highly dependant on a number of factors, but can take 3 weeks to 6 months. The moral turpitude waivers have trickled nearly to a halt, particularly with PS applicants, and O9S. Maybe one of our moderators like RyCass can throw out the current policy memo on here.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Wavier Delaying Ship to BCT. Advice Saught.

        Unfortunately, there is no time frame on waivers. You'll just have to keep in close contact with your recruiter to get updates.

        EDIT:
        I concur Mongoose on this one. If you're looking for OCS options, be sure to check out this forum or the National Guard website for some general information: http://bit.ly/JQykTC
        Last edited by RyCass; June 14th, 2012, 11:33 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Wavier Delaying Ship to BCT. Advice Saught.

          What? That is so amazing, they should do that

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Wavier Delaying Ship to BCT. Advice Saught.

            Originally posted by Loyal0ne81 View Post
            holy **** this sounds exactly like my situation that all went down at MEPS yesterday - except they caught my NGB waiver approval right before i was about to swear in. I have a DUI on record from 8 years ago that i needed a moral waiver for to enlist 09S. Same thing, my state level was approved with no issues and i was just about to proceed for security clearance questioning, but the NG Liason found the 1 line regulation in her "bible" about needing NGB approval as well.

            This is where my story differs from yours, I was told/instructed that the NGB is not approving 09S Moral Waivers at this time for initial entry candidates. They WILL however accept the waivers for currently enlisted soldiers. Basically, they told me that i will have to pick an enlisted job, go to BCT/AIT and then apply for OCS afterwards. So i left MEPS with a list of 'only' 10 currently available enlisted jobs in my state - NJ.

            I'm thinking about going this route and in the long run may work out to my advantage. I was solely focused on becoming an Infantry Officer, yet i know that when you graduate OCS they branch you according to the needs of the state, your OML, wish list, etc..and that i may not end up with Infantry. However, if i go to BCT/AIT as an 11B(which is currently available in NJ) and then apply for OCS it would make sence that i be branched Infantry due to my prior experience. I'm still making up my mind that this point. The only downside i currently see is that i would be in BCT/AIT for 14-16 weeks instead of just BCT at 10 weeks. Outside of that, i'm looking for recommendations as well (not trying to steal the tread though).
            That one line regulation would have put a complete freeze on you going anywhere as 09S, so while you may be a bit disappointed, be thankful that in your case, this was caught well in advance. Personally, based on the fact that you clearly want to be an Infantry Officer, it does seem to make sense for you to go 11B enlisted first, if for nothing else than to understand that role from the enlisted perspective. Another plus is that the AIT for 11B is one of the shorter ones, if you're worried about the OUST length when going with an MOS (though you might want to get someone more knowledgeable to confirm that). I would just make sure to know the OCS procedures for NJ inside and out first, so that you can pursue your goal at the earliest possible opportunity.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Wavier Delaying Ship to BCT. Advice Saught.

              Uk8th2012 - thanks for the advice.

              Does anyone know if you can attend Federal or Accelerated OCS as a currently enlisted soldier after you return from OSUT - or is it mandatory that you do the state Traditional route? i only know of the procedures for initial entry. Unfortunately this same waiver that we spoke about earlier precluded me from going to Accelerated an an initial entry. However i was wondering if it is different once enlisted???

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Wavier Delaying Ship to BCT. Advice Saught.

                Originally posted by Mongoose772 View Post
                You may want to consider the benefits of Loyal's plan.

                While the Officer Candidate enlistment option has become quite popular in recent years it is certainly not the only way to attend OCS if that is your goal.

                I will estimate that only 1/3rd of OCs are O9s with the substantial majority comming from PS enlisted ranks.

                I was on the phone with someone at NGB last week, and they made the comment "The National Guard is like having 50 different Armies". I chuckled, and thought that was a truisim of sorts. Many of these selection processes are state specific. For example, in NJ apparently (according to Loyal), they create an Order of Merit List based on avalible slots and assign a branch to each OC Graduate. Some states are much more permissive, allowing a first come, first serve policy upon local commander approval.

                The NGB waiver process is also fickle. It is highly dependant on a number of factors, but can take 3 weeks to 6 months. The moral turpitude waivers have trickled nearly to a halt, particularly with PS applicants, and O9S. Maybe one of our moderators like RyCass can throw out the current policy memo on here.
                The idea our shipping coordinator had was to have me choose an MOS and then send me on a split option, and let the wavier clear in the meantime. The FLW folks apparently shot that down. I might be able to go by doing AIT and actually learning the MOS, neither the shipping coordinator, my recruiter, or myself has suggested that.

                I'm hesitant to do that though, to be honest. Loyal says there are 10 MOS open to NJ initial entries, there are 2 MOS available to transfers out of KY OCS, based on information I received a couple of drills ago. Also, the OCS orientation here is in October. I wouldn't make it back in time to get in this year's class.

                Let me ask this: is there anything that anyone between myself and the NGB can do to bring my wavier directly to the attention of the person who is to make a decision on it? My shipping coordinator said that MEPS had forwarded it directly, and my recruiter says he has no doubt it will be approved, but that is at odds with what I'm seeing here.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Wavier Delaying Ship to BCT. Advice Saught.

                  Loyal, there are a few misnomers here. O9S (Just means Officer Candidate vs. O9R ROTC Cadet) ARE enlisted. An O9S applicant enlists through the same induction proceedures of any other enlisted MOS, but rather than attending 88M, 11B, or 68W AIT they instead attend OCS. Failure results in the exact same thing to traditional MOS seekers who NOGO out of thier AIT. They are mandated to attend their listed "secondary MOS". This still doesn't preclude the soldier from applying again to OCS at a later date a year, 5 years, or 20 years later. Again, while every state may have some proceedural differences, getting commander's approval and recommendations and submiting a commissioning packet through the OSM office is consistent across the spectrum.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Wavier Delaying Ship to BCT. Advice Saught.

                    Originally posted by uk8th2012 View Post
                    Let me ask this: is there anything that anyone between myself and the NGB can do to bring my wavier directly to the attention of the person who is to make a decision on it? My shipping coordinator said that MEPS had forwarded it directly, and my recruiter says he has no doubt it will be approved, but that is at odds with what I'm seeing here.
                    Once it's submitted, it's up to the powers that be. Just continue to stay in contact with your recruiter. They will be able to tell you if any updates.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Wavier Delaying Ship to BCT. Advice Saught.

                      Originally posted by RyCass View Post
                      Once it's submitted, it's up to the powers that be. Just continue to stay in contact with your recruiter. They will be able to tell you if any updates.
                      Heard today from my recruiter that I should plan for up to 2 months to be approved. I'll stay patient and ready to go when that chance hopefully arrives. Thanks for the advice and insight here.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Wavier Delaying Ship to BCT. Advice Saught.

                        Uk8th2012 - the problem i see here is that what happens if your package is not approved. then it is on record that you were denied entry into OCS. Personally i dont have the experience to know whether this will make a difference or not in future OCS applications, but i just dont like knowing that there would be something like that on my record.

                        for example - when applying for a gun permit, if you were ever denied a gun permit previously it plays a huge part in trying to get one in the future. I'm not saying these are very similar circumstances, as a matter of fact they are an apples and oranges situation, but you can see the similarities and concerns. It may just be better to go BCT/AIT and then apply for OCS afterwards. At least for my situation, that's what i'm leaning towards.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Wavier Delaying Ship to BCT. Advice Saught.

                          Originally posted by Loyal0ne81 View Post
                          Uk8th2012 - the problem i see here is that what happens if your package is not approved. then it is on record that you were denied entry into OCS. Personally i dont have the experience to know whether this will make a difference or not in future OCS applications, but i just dont like knowing that there would be something like that on my record.

                          for example - when applying for a gun permit, if you were ever denied a gun permit previously it plays a huge part in trying to get one in the future. I'm not saying these are very similar circumstances, as a matter of fact they are an apples and oranges situation, but you can see the similarities and concerns. It may just be better to go BCT/AIT and then apply for OCS afterwards. At least for my situation, that's what i'm leaning towards.
                          I'd be speculating if I offered an opinion on whether or not a denied wavier was a sort of 'death sentence' on OCS applications. While I think your reasoning makes sense, wouldn't the fact be that one would need the same form to be approved based on the same arrest record at some point? In my case, my recruiter told me that he believes I have nothing to worry about as far as getting approval. I have no reason to doubt him, he has been 100% on everything else I've needed or requested so far. RyCass may have said it best. For me, "it's up to the powers that be".

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Wavier Delaying Ship to BCT. Advice Saught.

                            Originally posted by uk8th2012 View Post
                            Heard today from my recruiter that I should plan for up to 2 months to be approved. I'll stay patient and ready to go when that chance hopefully arrives. Thanks for the advice and insight here.
                            Great! Glad to hear you have some kind of time frame to work with. Good luck!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Wavier Delaying Ship to BCT. Advice Saught.

                              Originally posted by Loyal0ne81 View Post
                              Does anyone know if you can attend Federal or Accelerated OCS as a currently enlisted soldier after you return from OSUT - or is it mandatory that you do the state Traditional route? i only know of the procedures for initial entry. Unfortunately this same waiver that we spoke about earlier precluded me from going to Accelerated an an initial entry. However i was wondering if it is different once enlisted???
                              Short answer: yes, you can attend any of the three varieties of OCS. I was an enlisted soldier and I attended AOCS.

                              Long answer: the form of OCS you are enrolled in will be up to the whims of the TAC Officers/NCOs at your state's RTI. You may be granted permission to attend your choice, or your request may be denied for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

                              Since you are going to be an NJ soldier/candidate, I advise against you betting your money on any particular outcome. It is my personal and completely unofficial opinion that the NJ OCS program is very poorly staffed and administered. You should still heed the call, but make sure you cover your *** and scan copies of everything.

                              Good luck.

                              Comment

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