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  • #16
    Re: I'm Currently in Flight School

    I'm a lifer. If need be, I'd fulfill the "Gentlemans Agreement." I love the people at my unit and would be happy there regardless. My initial post was in reference to the possibilities of switching air frames, the repercussions, and the best way to go about it. "You chose the mission, not the AC." I'm sure you've all heard this before. The heart wants what the heart wants and if I'm willing to do what it takes to reach that goal, whether it be now or in the future, I'll do it. I'd just like some insight from those who've done it so I'm better prepared.

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    • #17
      Re: I'm Currently in Flight School

      What state are you currently with?

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      • #18
        Re: I'm Currently in Flight School

        I am pretty sure interstate transfers can be denied. So if you move to Guam, you would still have to drill in VA. Missing drill/AT can be grounds for dismissal or punitive action. Neither would help your case to switch states or platforms. Your unit in VA that sent you to flight school will almost certainly be disappointed to find out you already want to switch platforms.

        I would keep that to yourself and dedicate yourself to being the best 60 pilot you can be. Prove yourself as a pilot and PC in your unit and they might be supportive and help you with your long term goal. If your current unit doesn't feel you have contributed, they will likely not support your decision to move to a new state and platform.

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        • #19
          Re: I'm Currently in Flight School

          Originally posted by RobLyman View Post
          I am pretty sure interstate transfers can be denied. So if you move to Guam, you would still have to drill in VA. Missing drill/AT can be grounds for dismissal or punitive action. Neither would help your case to switch states or platforms. Your unit in VA that sent you to flight school will almost certainly be disappointed to find out you already want to switch platforms.

          I would keep that to yourself and dedicate yourself to being the best 60 pilot you can be. Prove yourself as a pilot and PC in your unit and they might be supportive and help you with your long term goal. If your current unit doesn't feel you have contributed, they will likely not support your decision to move to a new state and platform.
          Well, not only am I pretty sure, I am positive that they cannot be denied (by the losing state). In addition, if you move somewhere that doesn't have an armory within X amount of miles (I forget exactly how many) there are provisions that allow for separation.

          Yes, states are going to wine and cry, but you have no obligation to remain part of that state.

          Plus, Guam is pretty nice.
          Last edited by ParalegalNCO1; November 9th, 2012, 10:27 AM.

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          • #20
            Re: I'm Currently in Flight School

            Don't let em get you down on guns, man! The Apache is God's gift to man

            Pretty much your only option is an IST but I am sure as soon as you get into the 60 course you will love it. I know most of the guys in my BN are dual rated 60/64, if you ever IST to an Apache state...

            The AH-64D only has NDB and is not IFR rated (who wants to fly in the clouds anyway? lol). The AH-64E is in fact IFR rated and will trickle its way into the inventory slowly but surely. As far as outside employment goes, a lot of employers do not discriminate based on airframe (dual engine) and some will allow you to substitute IFR time with NVG time and vice versa.

            Make sure you get your IFR license before you forget! You'll enjoy BWS

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            • #21
              Re: I'm Currently in Flight School

              Originally posted by ParalegalNCO1 View Post
              Well, not only am I pretty sure, I am positive that they cannot be denied (by the losing state). In addition, if you move somewhere that doesn't have an armory within X amount of miles (I forget exactly how many) there are provisions that allow for separation.

              Yes, states are going to wine and cry, but you have no obligation to remain part of that state.

              Plus, Guam is pretty nice.
              I know of at least one case where an interstate transfer was denied at the losing unit. But just as importantly, I also know of several cases where the door that appeared to be open in the new state was suddenly found to be closed. The transfer doesn't have to be denied by the losing unit for a huge wrench to be thrown in the works. What I said about being the best pilot/PC that you can be holds true. IF the OP holds back and waits for "guns" to apply himself, that will come out. The first thing that happens when a pilot tries to transfer to a new unit is the SPs/IPs of the gaining unit contact the SPs/IPs of the losing unit. Not many units will want an aviator/soldier who performs only if/when he gets what he wants.

              Interesting that you mentioned it as whining and crying. If the SAAO selects someone for flight school over another applicant to fill one of his limited quotas and that candidate then decides to leave immediately after completing flight school, should the SAAO happily let the individual leave? A quick O-6 to O-6 call can have a devastating effect on an interstate transfer. Heck, he could even terminate the soldier before he finishes flight school. I have seen that done, though not for the same reason, but just as indiscriminately.

              What is most important is that the OP doesn't shrug off the advice I gave simply because you told him they can't do that.

              To the OP:
              Perform, perform, perform! Do that throughout your time at your first unit. Strive to make PC and track. Doors will open for you and remain open.

              OR

              Wait until you get AH-64s, then strive to make PC and track.

              My 16+ years as a military pilot in two services gives me a good idea which approach is more likely to work.
              Last edited by RobLyman; November 18th, 2012, 04:56 PM.

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              • #22
                Re: I'm Currently in Flight School

                Originally posted by RobLyman View Post
                I know of at least one case where this was done. I also know of several cases where the door that appeared to be open in the new state was suddenly found to be closed. The transfer doesn't have to be denied for a huge wrench to be thrown in the works. What I said about being the best pilot/PC that you can be holds true. IF the OP holds back and waits for "guns" to apply himself, that will come out. The first thing that happens when a pilot tries to join a unit is the SPs/IPs of the gaining unit contact the SPs/IPs of the losing unit. Not many units will want an aviator/soldier who performs only if/when he gets what he wants.
                You may know of many cases where the gaining state denied the SM, I know of a couple dozen..They have control. A state cannot legally deny an outgoing transfer.....period.

                Some have tried, some have done it...the SM just didn't speak loud enough, they have no regulatory authority to do so.

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                • #23
                  Re: I'm Currently in Flight School

                  Originally posted by ParalegalNCO1 View Post
                  You may know of many cases where the gaining state denied the SM, I know of a couple dozen..They have control. A state cannot legally deny an outgoing transfer.....period.

                  Some have tried, some have done it...the SM just didn't speak loud enough, they have no regulatory authority to do so.
                  How it is done is inconsequential. The fact that the losing unit can stop the process, directly or indirectly is VERY IMPORTANT for the OP to understand.

                  It is dishonest, or if you prefer, disengenuous, to accept a flight school slot for an aircraft that you have little or no intention to fly. Transferring out of the unit without putting your best effort in is crappy (to use a more PC term). It shows a lack of loyalty. Where have I heard that term before (hint: core values).

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                  • #24
                    Re: I'm Currently in Flight School

                    Originally posted by RobLyman View Post
                    How it is done is inconsequential. The fact that the losing unit can stop the process, directly or indirectly is VERY IMPORTANT for the OP to understand.

                    It is dishonest, or if you prefer, disengenuous, to accept a flight school slot for an aircraft that you have little or no intention to fly. Transferring out of the unit without putting your best effort in is crappy (to use a more PC term). It shows a lack of loyalty. Where have I heard that term before (hint: core values).
                    Well, considering the options would be to allow the transfer or discharge the SM....the transfer will prevail. Either way the losing state...loses.

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                    • #25
                      Re: I'm Currently in Flight School

                      Originally posted by ParalegalNCO1 View Post
                      Well, considering the options would be to allow the transfer or discharge the SM....the transfer will prevail. Either way the losing state...loses.
                      And a good chance the OP loses if he doesn't perform and get the transfer from a willing unit.

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                      • #26
                        Re: I'm Currently in Flight School

                        Originally posted by RobLyman View Post
                        And a good chance the OP loses if he doesn't perform and get the transfer from a willing unit.
                        That sentence doesn't even make sense.

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                        • #27
                          Re: I'm Currently in Flight School

                          Your state is paying for you to be in flight school. They are not going to be happy when you request to transfer right out of flight school. You will be considered a huge waste of money and a waste of time. You will burn some major bridges doing that. I would stay with it for at least a couple of years before you request the IST. Flying guns is over rated anyways.

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                          • #28
                            Re: I'm Currently in Flight School

                            Originally posted by Mike2K View Post
                            Your state is paying for you to be in flight school. They are not going to be happy when you request to transfer right out of flight school. You will be considered a huge waste of money and a waste of time. You will burn some major bridges doing that. I would stay with it for at least a couple of years before you request the IST. Flying guns is over rated anyways.
                            What he said.

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                            • #29
                              Re: I'm Currently in Flight School

                              I've decided to stick with what I have. I'm happy with my unit. Thanks anyway.

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                              • #30
                                Re: I'm Currently in Flight School

                                Good choice. Put your heart into it. Then, later if you still want to change, you might find stronger support. Good luck.

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