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Article 15 when underage

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Chief Kemosabe View Post
    Many states National Guardsman are subject to the UCMJ via a nexus in their state law. Others just simply call their punitive laws a State Code of Military Justice or words to that effect. In short, I am trying to say he doesn't have to be on Initial Active Duty for Training dependent upon state laws. Furthermore, Article 15's for E-4 and below are not filed...not even in the restricted file. I already addressed this, but now I have said it again in a little more detail.

    Thank you for the update and clarification. I thought I remember seeing in the past, that you explicitly stated that UCMJ only applied to people on title 10, serving on active duty.
    Technically, what you are stating is correct chief. There is only one UCMJ, and it is applicable to only title 10 soldiers. However, in many states, they have adopted the full code in complete. While this technically would still not be called the "UCMJ" if enacted under state law....it does not bear a significant amount of difference. Some states it is completely different. Some make minor alterations. It gets confusing, but it is what it is.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Mongoose772 View Post
      I agree that while individual state legislatures have enacted a variety of state uniform codes of military justice they are not synonymous with the actual UCMJ, which the OP seems to be implying a reference to here.
      I have been doing this job (legal) for a long time. I am running out of ways to tactfully tell you that you are wrong...so I will just say it. You are wrong. Some states are synonymous. My particular state is almost completely synonymous except for one singular restriction.

      Nothing in the OP's post indicates to me it must have been title 10. Moreover, a brand new private wouldn't understand the different in non judicial punishment being title 32 vs title 10.

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      • #18
        Additionally, while many states have adopted the book it doesn't get used in a practical nature much past Non Judicial Punishment. I currently do not know of any state that on a normal basis court martials any soldiers under state law....even though the authority is there to do so. We are not logistically prepared to do so in the National Guard, and civilian law enforcement always have priority for true "crime" stuff. If it is a military only offense bad enough to warrant court martial, most states don't want to waste the time and money, so we will just punt you out the door with bad paper on an administrative separation which is easy peasy.

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        • #19
          We are likely just arguing semantics. States have their "State Code of Military Justice", codified into statue, but (it seems to me) to call them synonymous is disingenuous. My state CMJ, for example, only includes "offenses" of a purely military nature (missing a movement, disrespecting an officer etc), and has a legal caveat that specifically allows for the State Courts to adjudicate serious offenses. The procedural elements of the UCMJ are adopted by reference. Our non-judicial punishment is far more muted, and like you mentioned, for practical purposes Court Martial proceedings have never, in actuality, taken place. I would be interested in seeing the particular language of a State's code that has adopted the UCMJ by reference in it's entirety out of curiosity.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Mongoose772 View Post
            We are likely just arguing semantics. States have their "State Code of Military Justice", codified into statue, but (it seems to me) to call them synonymous is disingenuous. My state CMJ, for example, only includes "offenses" of a purely military nature (missing a movement, disrespecting an officer etc), and has a legal caveat that specifically allows for the State Courts to adjudicate serious offenses. The procedural elements of the UCMJ are adopted by reference. Our non-judicial punishment is far more muted, and like you mentioned, for practical purposes Court Martial proceedings have never, in actuality, taken place. I would be interested in seeing the particular language of a State's code that has adopted the UCMJ by reference in it's entirety out of curiosity.
            You're state is not the norm. Off the top of my head, North Carolina is the best example I can think of. They simple have a state law thats says..."we use the Manual For Courts Martial".

            Read thru some of the military justice statutes. It is about as synonymous as one can get.

            http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/gascript...?Chapter=0127A

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            • #21
              Okay first of all I apologize for the confusion my circumstances were unique and I might have been to vague but not intentionally I was a split op in the army reserve for three years I completed basic but was forced to reclass prior to my ait date while still drilling I was underage with a few other soldiers and got and was caught drinking I was given a field grade article 15 and reduced one rank but as part of it did not lose rank because of good behavior I know this sounds stupid and confusing but I promise you its what happened. Under section 2- character of service on form NGB 22-3 20070115 (EF) (IMT) it gives a date and says article 15 offense underage drinking and the disposition reduced in rank to pv2 I have had nothing other than a traffic ticket since that time again sorry for the confusion and thank you for your patience and help

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              • #22

                Originally posted by Hank Hill View Post
                Okay first of all I apologize for the confusion my circumstances were unique and I might have been to vague but not intentionally I was a split op in the army reserve for three years I completed basic but was forced to reclass prior to my ait date while still drilling I was underage with a few other soldiers and got and was caught drinking I was given a field grade article 15 and reduced one rank but as part of it did not lose rank because of good behavior I know this sounds stupid and confusing but I promise you its what happened. Under section 2- character of service on form NGB 22-3 20070115 (EF) (IMT) it gives a date and says article 15 offense underage drinking and the disposition reduced in rank to pv2 I have had nothing other than a traffic ticket since that time again sorry for the confusion and thank you for your patience and help
                Well then you can ignore the majority of this thread as you did get an Article 15.

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