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  • Prior Service USN to Guard SF Questions

    Facts:
    - 29 y.o., triathlete, crossfit junkie, fully aware of the physical requirements expected of SF candidates.
    - Prior service USN E-5 Tac Air controller, honorable discharge in '05.
    - Gov't contractor from '05 - '10, training foreign military units in Pakistan, Oman, Egypt, Taiwan, Chile, etc.
    - Current OGA (NOT ODA) staff (fed worker) in Northern VA, possessing all the acronym clearances one can hold with a multitude of tac training / real world experience.

    Questions:
    - What's the timeline look like for me to get in the Guard and get into the SF pipeline?
    - Do I go to Basic, then AIT, then begin the SF career path?
    - Since I already have a full-time career, what length of time should I expect to take leave to complete the above?
    - Is there an SF det. in the NOVA / D.C. area that I can reach out to and bounce some questions off of?

    Any reply from active or prior SF pax would be greatly appreciated.

    V/r

    JR

  • #2
    Re: Prior Service USN to Guard SF Questions

    I knew the Air Force has TACs and ALOs but did not know the Navy had them. Good luck. There is an individual that is SF on this forum and he will provide a robust response.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Prior Service USN to Guard SF Questions

      Originally posted by fmcityslicker View Post
      I knew the Air Force has TACs and ALOs but did not know the Navy had them. Good luck. There is an individual that is SF on this forum and he will provide a robust response.
      The USN air controllers are a bit different than the AF controllers. The USN has 3 types, of which, only ATC's control as a full time gig, the others are controllers in addition to being experts in ALL the other warfare areas. So, ATC's - Air Traffic Controllers, just like the name entails, they control aircraft just like their civilian counterparts. ASTAC - Anti submarine tactical air controller, these guys control helos and fixed wing (P-3 types) aircraft in anti-submarine warfare operations. AIC - Air Intercept Controller, these guys control tac air from ships with sophisticated radar and data links, fixed wing fast movers in air to air combat (Top Gun stuff) and air to ground strike missions. They control everyone and everything with a pointy nose that goes fast, to include USN, USMC, and AF jets. Like USN pilots, USN AIC's, if they are $hit hot controllers, can be selected to attend Top Gun. Nope, it's not a myth, the school does exist.

      Disclaimer: I was an AIC

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Prior Service USN to Guard SF Questions

        There are is a sticky in the SF forum tha covers current/prior service applicants as well as a sticky on the timeframe of training. The sticky on the timeframe also explains that you will have to enlist and attend BCT/AIT, meet the requirements, and coordinate/attend a SFRE/SFAD try-out to earn a ticket to SFAS. SF Hunter will have to let you know if it is possible to attend the SFRE prior to Basic/AIT.

        On the NG website there used to be a link that had all of the states that had SF units along with phone numbers. I just looked and didn't see it anymore. I believe 20th Group has a unit in Maryland though.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Prior Service USN to Guard SF Questions

          Originally posted by TB1077 View Post
          There are is a sticky in the SF forum tha covers current/prior service applicants as well as a sticky on the timeframe of training. The sticky on the timeframe also explains that you will have to enlist and attend BCT/AIT, meet the requirements, and coordinate/attend a SFRE/SFAD try-out to earn a ticket to SFAS.
          Unfortunately, the Army National Guard currently does not offer Special Forces enlistment contracts for prior service.

          In order to apply for Special Forces as prior service, the first step is to enlist into the Army National Guard, either under your former Navy rating, if it transfers over to an Army MOS or reclass to one available within the state.

          The second step is to meet the requirements for SF: See requirements sticky thread

          The third step is to coordinate and schedule to attend an SF Readiness Evaluation/Assessment drill (SFRE/SFAD), basically a try-out, with a NG SF unit that is accepting applicants. If you pass the SFRE/SFAD you will be placed on a Order of Merit List (OML) for attendance to SFAS.
          Last edited by SF Hunter; September 20th, 2012, 02:01 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Prior Service USN to Guard SF Questions

            SF Hunter,

            Would you mind going into detail about the OML? Is this sometimes a long wait list? Are you for sure guaranteed a slot to SFAS if you pass SFRE/SFAD? Asking because I'm due to xfer out of the Navy next October and looking heavily into this program. Thanks in advance.

            Stay Safe,

            Kyle

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Prior Service USN to Guard SF Questions

              Originally posted by Kyle Kevlar View Post
              SF Hunter,

              Would you mind going into detail about the OML? Is this sometimes a long wait list? Are you for sure guaranteed a slot to SFAS if you pass SFRE/SFAD? Asking because I'm due to xfer out of the Navy next October and looking heavily into this program. Thanks in advance.

              Stay Safe,

              Kyle
              Nothing is guaranteed in the military, other than change. Your ranking on the NG SF unit's OML is based on your performance. As to when you would attend SFAS will depend on any needed inter-state transfers (IST) or enlistment, slots available and current budgets. But, with that said, most SF units will send "good" candidates to SFAS within a timely manner.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Prior Service USN to Guard SF Questions

                Originally posted by SF Hunter View Post
                Nothing is guaranteed in the military, other than change. Your ranking on the NG SF unit's OML is based on your performance. As to when you would attend SFAS will depend on any needed inter-state transfers (IST) or enlistment, slots available and current budgets. But, with that said, most SF units will send "good" candidates to SFAS within a timely manner.
                I was under the impression that funding/budget in a SF unit is not as much of an issue as it is in a traditional line unit. For example, having NJ send someone to an ASI course is next to impossible. Heck even sending someone to NCOES or OES is hard enough.

                Let's suppose someone's intention was to serve in an SF unit for 4-6 years and transition back to a traditional branch after that time. Is it common for SF units to send an officer to other Captain's Career Courses (such as MCCC, MICCC, etc.) in that time frame? Obviously, this would be beneficial for that officer and give him more options afterwards.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Prior Service USN to Guard SF Questions

                  Originally posted by Polo08816 View Post
                  I was under the impression that funding/budget in a SF unit is not as much of an issue as it is in a traditional line unit. For example, having NJ send someone to an ASI course is next to impossible. Heck even sending someone to NCOES or OES is hard enough.

                  Let's suppose someone's intention was to serve in an SF unit for 4-6 years and transition back to a traditional branch after that time. Is it common for SF units to send an officer to other Captain's Career Courses (such as MCCC, MICCC, etc.) in that time frame? Obviously, this would be beneficial for that officer and give him more options afterwards.
                  The Special Operations Captains Career Course is a fairly new program. All officers selected for SF, were required to attend resident MCCC at Ft. Benning before this new program. Unfortunately, if you only attend the SOCCC and then decide to go back to traditional branch, you will have to attend the appropriate CCC. As to whether the SF unit and state is willing to pay for this while serving is hard to say, but I doubt it.

                  As to budgets for SFAS. We have been fighting this issue for years trying to get dedicated funds from NGB for SFAS only. But as you can imagine the states baulk at this, because they see it as holding back money from the states. There have been times in some states, where they have used up all the school funds and slots for Airborne School as some kind of incentives and good ole boy reward for soldiers that are not even assigned to Airborne units and never will be.

                  I "wish" SF was immune to most of the state politics and bureaucracy.
                  Last edited by SF Hunter; August 13th, 2013, 05:45 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Prior Service USN to Guard SF Questions

                    Originally posted by SF Hunter View Post
                    The Special Operations Captains Career Course is a fairly new program. All officers selected for SF, were required to attend resident MCCC at Ft. Benning before this new program. Unfortunately, if you only attend the SOCCC and then decide to go back to traditional branch, you will have to attend the appropriate CCC. As to whether the your SF unit and state is willing to pay for this while serving is hard to say, but I doubt it.

                    As to budgets for SFAS. We have been fighting this issue for years trying to get dedicated funds from NGB for SFAS only. But as you can imagine the states baulk at this, because they see it as holding back money from the states. There have been times in some states, where they have used up all the school funds and slots for Airborne School as some kind of incentives and good ole boy reward for soldiers that are not even assigned to Airborne units and never will be.

                    I "wish" SF was immune to most of the state politics and bureaucracy.
                    This was quite an informative post.

                    I have two additional (and last).

                    1. I noticed that it is called the "Special Operations Captains Career Course" and not the "Special Forces Captain's Career Course" based on what I've read and seen on ATTRS. Does this imply that there will be officers from other career fields (not CMF 18) that will attend this course as well? Perhaps Civil Affairs or Psychological Operations? Maybe even officers from sister services?

                    2. This is probably more in LTC Ritchie's lane but I'll still ask it anyways. Like you said before:

                    Originally posted by SF Hunter View Post
                    Unfortunately, if you only attend the SOCCC and then decide to go back to a traditional branch, you will have to attend the appropriate CCC.
                    In the scenario where an 18A transitions back to his original basic branch, would having completed SOCCC (or any other CCC for that matter) allow a basic branch 11A occupy an O-4 11A slot without actually have attended MCCC?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Prior Service USN to Guard SF Questions

                      Originally posted by Polo08816 View Post
                      This is probably more in LTC Ritchie's lane but I'll still ask it anyways. Like you said before:

                      In the scenario where an 18A transitions back to his original basic branch, would having completed SOCCC (or any other CCC for that matter) allow a basic branch 11A occupy an O-4 11A slot without actually have attended MCCC?
                      I hazard to comment on this specific situation. My current assignment has little to do with either recruiting or personnel, so I'm not up-to-date on some of the latest minutiae. I would recommend in a generalized nature that you complete a basic branch CCC before competing for Special Forces. This provides a fallback position if your life changes, and for whatever reason you want to continue to serve in the conventional forces.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Prior Service USN to Guard SF Questions

                        Originally posted by matthew.ritchie View Post
                        I hazard to comment on this specific situation. My current assignment has little to do with either recruiting or personnel, so I'm not up-to-date on some of the latest minutiae. I would recommend in a generalized nature that you complete a basic branch CCC before competing for Special Forces. This provides a fallback position if your life changes, and for whatever reason you want to continue to serve in the conventional forces.
                        That makes sense, and I agree with you.

                        Unfortunately, NJ has not sent anyone to a CCC until some time after company command. (Heck, NJ does not generally promote a 1LT(P) to CPT before 60-66 months). As you can see, waiting until after NJ sends one to CCC would make one ineligible for SF (as an 18A) due to commissioning year group.

                        I've been doing my homework and the way I see it, staying in the NJ ARNG beyond my 6 year obligation is at the bottom of a list of options. Ultimately, if I decide to make this a long-term part-time career, I will serve the majority of it in the USAR. But I figured that I wouldn't want to move on before attempting to become part of an elite community.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Prior Service USN to Guard SF Questions

                          Originally posted by Polo08816 View Post

                          1. I noticed that it is called the "Special Operations Captains Career Course" and not the "Special Forces Captain's Career Course" based on what I've read and seen on ATTRS. Does this imply that there will be officers from other career fields (not CMF 18) that will attend this course as well? Perhaps Civil Affairs or Psychological Operations? Maybe even officers from sister services?
                          You are correct to assume that the SOCCC is for SF, CA and Psychological Operations (Now called Military Information Support Operations-MISO< Still hate that new term)
                          Last edited by SF Hunter; August 13th, 2013, 05:44 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Prior Service USN to Guard SF Questions

                            Originally posted by Polo08816 View Post
                            That makes sense, and I agree with you.

                            Unfortunately, NJ has not sent anyone to a CCC until some time after company command. (Heck, NJ does not generally promote a 1LT(P) to CPT before 60-66 months). As you can see, waiting until after NJ sends one to CCC would make one ineligible for SF (as an 18A) due to commissioning year group.

                            I've been doing my homework and the way I see it, staying in the NJ ARNG beyond my 6 year obligation is at the bottom of a list of options. Ultimately, if I decide to make this a long-term part-time career, I will serve the majority of it in the USAR. But I figured that I wouldn't want to move on before attempting to become part of an elite community.
                            I hear that. It is the same in South Carolina. The Officers who commissioned in 2007 are still 1LTs. If this was 2003 it would be one thing. Who wouldn't want to be a Platoon Leader forever? But these ware are winding down; it is my opinion that the days of the Guard owning battle space or being ETTs (SFAT) and conducting full spectrum operations is over. If Infantry companies from 3ID are fighting for PRT security missions, were does that leave the Guard?

                            A smart man once told me "You have to redefine what sexy is."

                            Check out Army Reserve Civil Affairs. Seems like a decent gig and is evolving so that it is the focus for the Reserve Component. Probably the only chance of ever going active a few years down the road as well.

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