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  • #16
    Re: Attending Law School while an ARNG CO.

    Originally posted by matthew.ritchie View Post
    If you want to serve as a basic branch officer I the Guard, then ask your law school if you can defer enrollment for a year to complete military training. You really don't want a big training obligation to fall in the middle of law school.
    Sir,

    I just considered that this morning and called my prospective institution to find out if that would be allowed. They responded in the affirmative! Thank you very much for the guidance!

    V/R
    Chris Bryant, SPC, FLARNG

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Attending Law School while an ARNG CO.

      Originally posted by CSBryant View Post
      Sir,

      I just considered that this morning and called my prospective institution to find out if that would be allowed. They responded in the affirmative! Thank you very much for the guidance!

      V/R
      Chris Bryant, SPC, FLARNG
      That's one of the very few reasons a law school will allow an admitted candidate defer the admission.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Attending Law School while an ARNG CO.

        Stay enlisted. There's nothing to be gained right now to be an officer and trying to do law school. Yep it's possible but you also run the risk of screwing your school up.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Attending Law School while an ARNG CO.

          Originally posted by RedLeg View Post
          Stay enlisted. There's nothing to be gained right now to be an officer and trying to do law school. Yep it's possible but you also run the risk of screwing your school up.
          There's 3+ years of commissioned officer time to be lost if he puts it off. Most government positions are all about seniority; you're better of getting in early because you cannot be promoted any faster than allowable by law in a basic branch.

          There have been many that have accomplished both commissioning and serving as an officer while in school AND working - myself included.

          But yes, I see your point. It is better to have one than to not have any. Only the OP truly knows if he will be able to handle the workload.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Attending Law School while an ARNG CO.

            Originally posted by Polo08816 View Post
            There's 3+ years of commissioned officer time to be lost if he puts it off. Most government positions are all about seniority; you're better of getting in early because you cannot be promoted any faster than allowable by law in a basic branch.

            There have been many that have accomplished both commissioning and serving as an officer while in school AND working - myself included.

            But yes, I see your point. It is better to have one than to not have any. Only the OP truly knows if he will be able to handle the workload.
            Sir,

            When I was enlisted in the USAF, I was taking 15 credit hours per semester while deployed, working 6 days a week 12 hours per day, and maintained A's.

            Since leaving AD I have been attending university full time since spring, working 53+ hours per week in an investigative management position, went through the enlistment process with the FLARNG and have been drilling at RSP (and have been placed in various leadership positions) successfully all while maintaining straight A's.

            I am hopeful that I will be able to continue this trend through Law School. Now I am aware that Law School 1L year tends to be more stressfull than undergraduate studies, but I have accounted for this and will not be working while attending Law School. The schools I am looking at would offer me a full ride because of my GI Bill and their Yellow Ribbon Programs, retroactively. In addition, I will be paid as a 2LT (Drill Pay), collecting BAH from the full AD GI Bill (E-5 with dependants), and will likely take out a student loan for 20-30,000 dollars and let it sit in the bank, just in case its needed.

            I am encouraged by most of the responses in this thread, it does seem feasible if you look at the possibility for deferment, or even more so, if I were to be accepted to AOCS and sent to BOLC shortly thereafter, I will keep trying to contact my OSM to see if such may be possible.

            Thank you all again for the on-going input.

            V/R
            Chris Bryant, SPC, FLARNG.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Attending Law School while an ARNG CO.

              Originally posted by CSBryant View Post
              Sir,

              When I was enlisted in the USAF, I was taking 15 credit hours per semester while deployed, working 6 days a week 12 hours per day, and maintained A's.

              Since leaving AD I have been attending university full time since spring, working 53+ hours per week in an investigative management position, went through the enlistment process with the FLARNG and have been drilling at RSP (and have been placed in various leadership positions) successfully all while maintaining straight A's.

              I am hopeful that I will be able to continue this trend through Law School. Now I am aware that Law School 1L year tends to be more stressfull than undergraduate studies, but I have accounted for this and will not be working while attending Law School. The schools I am looking at would offer me a full ride because of my GI Bill and their Yellow Ribbon Programs, retroactively. In addition, I will be paid as a 2LT (Drill Pay), collecting BAH from the full AD GI Bill (E-5 with dependants), and will likely take out a student loan for 20-30,000 dollars and let it sit in the bank, just in case its needed.

              I am encouraged by most of the responses in this thread, it does seem feasible if you look at the possibility for deferment, or even more so, if I were to be accepted to AOCS and sent to BOLC shortly thereafter, I will keep trying to contact my OSM to see if such may be possible.

              Thank you all again for the on-going input.

              V/R
              Chris Bryant, SPC, FLARNG.
              My take is that if someone is capable of preparing himself/herself for admissions to a T14 law school, they anre not the garden variety retard. There's the potential to take on and excel in challenging circumstances.

              Will your obligation to the ARNG as an officer make law school more difficult? Yes. But it's certainly manageable.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Attending Law School while an ARNG CO.

                Originally posted by Polo08816 View Post
                Will your obligation to the ARNG as an officer make law school more difficult? Yes. But it's certainly manageable.
                Drill weekends and AT aren't his biggest challenges. Taking six months for BOLC in the middle of law school will present a significant hardship to managing his education. Once law school starts, particularly at a top-tier school, it doesn't stop and restart easily. A law school will more easily grant a deferment to start (as evidenced by the OP's experience) than to re-admit someone who left in the middle. Additionally, the way that the courses are structured usually means that missing a semester effectively means missing a year.

                Finishing OCS/BOLC first and then attending will reduce his risk, and give him a more graceful completion.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Attending Law School while an ARNG CO.

                  Originally posted by Polo08816 View Post
                  My take is that if someone is capable of preparing himself/herself for admissions to a T14 law school, they anre not the garden variety retard. There's the potential to take on and excel in challenging circumstances.

                  Will your obligation to the ARNG as an officer make law school more difficult? Yes. But it's certainly manageable.

                  Sir,

                  I had a chuckle over this, amusing alluditation to Sarason.


                  Colonel Ritchie,

                  Thank you again for the contribution.

                  I am certainly in agreement with you in that it would be of far greater advantage for me to attend Law School after the completion of my OCS and BOLC. If a deferment is required to accomplish this, and if it is entirely unfeasible to attend BOLC during the summer break, then I will gladly defer.

                  However, my best case scenario still lies with completing OCS and BOLC between Mar. 2013, and Sep. 2014, which seems entirely feasible if I am sent to AOCS and retroactively, to BOLC fairly soon afterward. I continue to hope that upon reaching my State OSM, something may be worked out.

                  V/R
                  Chris Bryant, SPC, FLARNG.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Attending Law School while an ARNG CO.

                    Originally posted by CSBryant View Post
                    Sir,

                    When I was enlisted in the USAF, I was taking 15 credit hours per semester while deployed, working 6 days a week 12 hours per day, and maintained A's.

                    Since leaving AD I have been attending university full time since spring, working 53+ hours per week in an investigative management position, went through the enlistment process with the FLARNG and have been drilling at RSP (and have been placed in various leadership positions) successfully all while maintaining straight A's.

                    I am hopeful that I will be able to continue this trend through Law School. Now I am aware that Law School 1L year tends to be more stressfull than undergraduate studies, but I have accounted for this and will not be working while attending Law School. The schools I am looking at would offer me a full ride because of my GI Bill and their Yellow Ribbon Programs, retroactively. In addition, I will be paid as a 2LT (Drill Pay), collecting BAH from the full AD GI Bill (E-5 with dependants), and will likely take out a student loan for 20-30,000 dollars and let it sit in the bank, just in case its needed.

                    I am encouraged by most of the responses in this thread, it does seem feasible if you look at the possibility for deferment, or even more so, if I were to be accepted to AOCS and sent to BOLC shortly thereafter, I will keep trying to contact my OSM to see if such may be possible.

                    Thank you all again for the on-going input.

                    V/R
                    Chris Bryant, SPC, FLARNG.
                    This seems like a terrible idea.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Attending Law School while an ARNG CO.

                      Originally posted by matthew.ritchie View Post
                      Drill weekends and AT aren't his biggest challenges. Taking six months for BOLC in the middle of law school will present a significant hardship to managing his education. Once law school starts, particularly at a top-tier school, it doesn't stop and restart easily. A law school will more easily grant a deferment to start (as evidenced by the OP's experience) than to re-admit someone who left in the middle. Additionally, the way that the courses are structured usually means that missing a semester effectively means missing a year.

                      Finishing OCS/BOLC first and then attending will reduce his risk, and give him a more graceful completion.
                      Obviously finishing OCS/BOLC first is the best course of action, but there's no guarantee that he will be sent to AOCS/FOCS in order to make this happen. I'm dealing with the most realistic outcome in which is that he goes through Traditional OCS and BOLC.

                      In any event, it is in his best interest to commission as early as possible.

                      He has two options that will not offset his project law school graduation date in the scenario above:
                      1. Accept his commission in August/September and attend law school starting Fall 2014. Get himself an ATTRS reservation for a May to August IBOLC date. This arrangement requires more research into available slots for his state and playing it safe at IBOLC so that he is not injured. There is less room for error.
                      2. He *may* also be able to defer his commission for up to 2 years. When he accepts it at that time (Fall of his last year in law school), he has 18 months to complete BOLC.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Attending Law School while an ARNG CO.

                        Originally posted by collk22 View Post
                        This seems like a terrible idea.
                        Not unless it is a subsidized loan in which he does not pay the interest.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Attending Law School while an ARNG CO.

                          Originally posted by Polo08816 View Post
                          Not unless it is a subsidized loan in which he does not pay the interest.
                          We'll just agree to disagree, LT. If his information is accurate and he goes to school with all expenses covered, I don't think there's a good reason to take out 20-30K "just because" even if it is interest free. As you pointed out, a guy that gets into a T-14 law school is no idiot. My assumption is that an individual of that caliber should have enough sense to manage his money without taking on unnecessary debt for personal use.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Attending Law School while an ARNG CO.

                            Originally posted by collk22 View Post
                            We'll just agree to disagree, LT. If his information is accurate and he goes to school with all expenses covered, I don't think there's a good reason to take out 20-30K "just because" even if it is interest free. As you pointed out, a guy that gets into a T-14 law school is no idiot. My assumption is that an individual of that caliber should have enough sense to manage his money without taking on unnecessary debt forpersonal use.
                            Collk,

                            All expenses covered will leave me 700 dollars per month for food, gas, and any incedental costs. Also, books will cost more than the yearly allotment for such. 20 to 30k should make up for any discrepancies for the full 3 years. It would be horrible to run out of cash and not have work, etc. In even the worst scenario, I would have an Ivy League education with a price tag of 30k at most. ( I only plan on taking an interest free loan.) Compiled with a significant chance of obtaining a 150k+ per year starting salary, this amount of debt is more than manageable.

                            V/R
                            CSB.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Attending Law School while an ARNG CO.

                              Originally posted by collk22 View Post
                              We'll just agree to disagree, LT. If his information is accurate and he goes to school with all expenses covered, I don't think there's a good reason to take out 20-30K "just because" even if it is interest free. As you pointed out, a guy that gets into a T-14 law school is no idiot. My assumption is that an individual of that caliber should have enough sense to manage his money without taking on unnecessary debt for personal use.
                              The situation is akin to buying a car. If a manufacturer is offering a 0% APR deal (all else equal), you're seriously not going to take it? Let me get this straight. You're going to pay cash up front instead of taking out an interest-free loan and putting that cash into something super safe like a CD?

                              Originally posted by CSBryant View Post
                              Collk,

                              All expenses covered will leave me 700 dollars per month for food, gas, and any incedental costs. Also, books will cost more than the yearly allotment for such. 20 to 30k should make up for any discrepancies for the full 3 years. It would be horrible to run out of cash and not have work, etc. In even the worst scenario, I would have an Ivy League education with a price tag of 30k at most. ( I only plan on taking an interest free loan.) Compiled with a significant chance of obtaining a 150k+ per year starting salary, this amount of debt is more than manageable.

                              V/R
                              CSB.
                              The legal field - all around - is not as easy money as it once was. Firms all over the place, even prestigious firms, in NYC are not hiring or offering what they once were in the past. I would not bank on $150+k/year starting salary (in a extremely high cost area of living) even with a T14 education.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Attending Law School while an ARNG CO.

                                OP, again nothing to gain by commissioning. Here's a from a lawyer over at armyocs.com, while it talks about ROTC, it can be applied to you as well. Espeically when you're trying to Phase I/III or trying to schedule BOLC.

                                Also keep in mind, you don't get the GI Bill or Kicker until done with BOLC. The most you'd get is tuition assistance and whatever state benefits. Commissioning will lock you into a career path you may not want.

                                Doing ROTC while in Law School is probably not the best recipe for a solid legal education. ROTC will force you to half-step or compromise many of the important things associated with law school such as time, critical internships between 2nd and 3rd year, law review etc. I do not understand the wisdom of participating in a program designed for bored 18 year old undergrads w'/ too much time on their hands. Unless your are a clone of John Roberts or Samuel Alito, you need to spend your energies on school. If you don't keep your eyes on the 1L ball, your peers will and they'll clean your academic clock. FYI, grades, class rank and Law Review membership DO follow you when you go to a 2nd tier school. St. Johns and Buffalo ain't Harvard - you have to fight for everything you can get in the job market.
                                Last edited by RedLeg; December 6th, 2012, 07:49 PM.

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