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  • Chapter 16-2 Experience

    I am seeking some information regarding anyone's experience with an enlisted separation under Chapter 16-2, Discharge for acceptance into a program leading to a commission or warrant officer appointment.

    I am currently on Active Duty, and interviewed with the TX OSM regarding OCS attendance and was accepted, contingent upon my discharge from Active Duty and Enlistment into the TXNG. The issue that I am running into is that no one is familiar with what the packet needs to consist of. I know that the normal resource would be the S1/MPD, however in this case I am working in an HQDA level staff MPD, and no one in my section is familiar with this action. We have limited legal support, and retention is not familiar with this process either. Further, I emailed HRC and was told that this was a locally approved packet. Unfortunately I have exhausted my known resources.

    More or less, I am simply looking for an example or some type of guideline to present to my leadership. Thank you for your assistance.

    SPC Lawlis.

  • #2
    When are you supposed to ETS from the Army?
    Last edited by Chief Kemosabe; March 5th, 2014, 08:07 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Chief,


      My ETS is not until November 2017, that is why I am seeking information on Chapter 16-2. After some legal and Chain of Command review, it appears that the separation would apply to this situation. My CoC supports it, however we do not have a real guideline on the packet.

      Comment


      • #4
        You're really trying to stretch that reg. Your S1 should have a check list for all supporting documentation to be submitted to the separation authority.

        Comment


        • #5
          Sir,


          That's just the issue, I work in the S1, and none of us have processed any 16-2 packets, even for an active to active 16-2 (Army to Air Force, for example). I understand that it is a bit "out there"; however I am fortunate enough to work for people who not only support the decision, but could very well be the signing authority. I have CoC support, just no proper documentation to provide, minus an edited 4187 for ROTC.

          Comment


          • #6
            So, let me get this straight, you are trying to leave the active component (3+ years earlier from your ETS), in order to join the NG OCS program to ultimately serve part-time??? I highly doubt that will happen. I believe you will have to remain on active duty until your ETS.

            My enlisted discharge shows in block 25 on my DD 214 as AR 635-200, PARA 16-1A and my narrative reason is ACCEPT COMMISSION OR WARRANT IN THE ARMY.

            http://www.apd.army.mil/jw2/xmldemo/r635_200/head.asp

            This was because I went from active enlisted to active officer. I personally know a few fellow warrant officers who were accepted from the Marine Corps and Air Force to become Army Warrant Officers. They had to still submit a conditional release to switch services; even when they were already selected. Because you want to go part-time, that is a whole different situation.

            My suggestion is to go to your local JAG office or IG for clarification. Even with the impending draw-down; separations in your case will probably not be granted. If you work at your BN S1, this will need to go up to Brigade level S1 for action. Perhaps, even higher.

            And the correct acronym is TXARNG not TXNG.

            Here is a similar thread http://www.nationalguard.com/forums/...n-to-the-guard

            Also, I am not calling this link as gospel http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...3133210AALXXS4 but ironically, the posters have stated the same as I. Why not apply to Federal OCS or the Army's Green to Gold program?
            Last edited by Chief Kemosabe; March 5th, 2014, 09:12 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Chief,

              Thank you for the correction on the abbreviation.

              I understand that this is kind of a long shot, and the only things I have in my favor right now are Chain of Command support and the draw-down. More or less, I was looking to see if anyone had done anything regarding a 16-2 and find a place to start. Also, I know that the correct place to start would be through a local JAG or higher HQ S1, but HQDA is not set up in a tradition sense: we do not do anything through our Battalion, and our administrative actions go either to us or to the Military District of Washington.

              My next option will be Federal OCS, but to be completely honest with you all (and myself, for that matter), returning to Texas and serving in the TXARNG (Got it right this time!) would enable me to provide a better quality of life for my family.

              I appreciate the feedback, and if I do have any luck assembling a packet, regardless of its success, will continue to share my knowledge.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Chief Kemosabe View Post
                So, let me get this straight, you are trying to leave the active component (3+ years earlier from your ETS), in order to join the NG OCS program to ultimately serve part-time??? I highly doubt that will happen. I believe you will have to remain on active duty until your ETS.

                My enlisted discharge shows in block 25 on my DD 214 as AR 635-200, PARA 16-1A and my narrative reason is ACCEPT COMMISSION OR WARRANT IN THE ARMY.

                http://www.apd.army.mil/jw2/xmldemo/r635_200/head.asp

                This was because I went from active enlisted to active officer. I personally know a few fellow warrant officers who were accepted from the Marine Corps and Air Force to become Army Warrant Officers. They had to still submit a conditional release to switch services; even when they were already selected. Because you want to go part-time, that is a whole different situation.

                My suggestion is to go to your local JAG office or IG for clarification. Even with the impending draw-down; separations in your case will probably not be granted. If you work at your BN S1, this will need to go up to Brigade level S1 for action. Perhaps, even higher.

                And the correct acronym is TXARNG not TXNG.

                Here is a similar thread http://www.nationalguard.com/forums/...n-to-the-guard

                Also, I am not calling this link as gospel http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...3133210AALXXS4 but ironically, the posters have stated the same as I. Why not apply to Federal OCS or the Army's Green to Gold program?
                ​You are way off the mark. For one, there is no need to go to the IG, thats just silly.

                To the OP.....This chapter applies, and the separation authority in the command is the first O-5 or higher commander with a legal advisor (so basically the first O-6), unless authority has been withheld by a higher commander (highly unlikely). Whether or not they grant it is another story. Its a voluntary requested chapter, so JAG isn't involved either. Use google (I said google, not yahoo or msn) and run a search for this exact phrase.."sample chapter 16-2 discharge", the second or third result should be a sample packet with checklists for various voluntary separations from garrison command in hawaii. Build a similar packet, good luck.
                Last edited by realitycheck; March 5th, 2014, 09:58 PM.

                Comment


                • Chief Kemosabe
                  Chief Kemosabe commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Welcome back and glad I could bring out of from the shadows. But I am going to tell you this and everyone else on here; there is nothing wrong going to IG to get clarification on regulations. A big misconception is that they only handle complaints. Talk to any IG rep and they will gladly assist with helping out the OP. The IG helps Commands to understand and better interpret the regulations. I have seen IG handle issues that I thought they normally would not.

                  But I will gladly have a wager with you; that with all your advice that you provided; that this request will be denied. With all your infinite wisdom (which I am sarcastically using loosely); have you ever see this happen? I have not.
                  Last edited by Chief Kemosabe; March 5th, 2014, 11:27 PM.

                • realitycheck
                  realitycheck commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Neither you nor I can say what will be in the mind of one particular commander on a particular day. I already stated it applies but whether it is approved is a story for another day. I have personally seen it happen twice, but from RA to USAR and it happens all the time for green to gold. The IG is not the zin master for all regulations. In situations like this it is a complete utter waste of time.
                  Last edited by realitycheck; March 6th, 2014, 12:18 AM.

              • #9
                RealityCheck,

                I saw that, I showed it to my first line earlier today, and we are having a sit-down with our Division Chief tomorrow regarding it. More or less, I am hoping to get this packet ready to sign on the 12th if my Chief Approves.

                By chance, do you know if the civilian equivalent or higher (My director is a GS-15, so COL/O6 equivalent, and above that is an SES, LTG equivalent) would be alright for approval? I've received mixed feedback from my legal buddies.
                Last edited by EthanLawlis; March 6th, 2014, 09:42 AM.

                Comment


                • realitycheck
                  realitycheck commented
                  Editing a comment
                  No. When it comes to separations that is a Command function. Civilians can supervise us but they never take place of our commander. Also, there is no such thing as a GS-16.

                • EthanLawlis
                  EthanLawlis commented
                  Editing a comment
                  RealityCheck,

                  Thanks for pointing that out, unfortunately my mind is wearing thin from screaming babies. Not sure how I let that mistake slip.

              • #10
                Chief,


                I understand your pessimism regarding my attempts; but that is all that it is, an attempt. I understand THROUGHLY that the chance of this being approved, despite support from my local CoC and the downsize, are about as likely as being struck by lightning, but what good is living in fear of being told "no"? Yes, in the end, it depends on the opinion of the approval authority: either they will see this as a great opportunity and approve it, or will see me as a turd trying to get out of his contract.


                No desrepect, and assuming that you are in a leadership position, but would you blatantly discourage one of your troops for trying to better their life? even if the possibility of achieving that goal was slim?

                Comment


                • Chief Kemosabe
                  Chief Kemosabe commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I have never hindered someone under my charge to seek opportunities that will enhance their military career. I am for one have attempted different routes to achieve certain statuses and ambitions in life and some of those attempts were considered inopportune or not feasible at that point in time.

                  There may be circumstances that may present itself to allow someone to terminate their contract prematurely but the overall piety in this decision is how this will benefit the active US Army; not the Guard nor yourself since you are bound by contract to the US Army. That is why I presented my views. Contracts do hinder people's expectations on where they want to be in the future. Take it from me. Good luck.
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