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  • #61
    Re: Acceptable Religious Materials?

    Originally posted by iambrian90 View Post
    So? It is a Christians job to witness to others and try to convert them to christianity, you dont see me trying to convert the OP do you? I respect her beliefs and am trying to help. I have served with muslims, atheists, mormons, and everything in between. When it comes to training, religion makes no difference, they are your brothers, and are just as capable at protecting you as you are of them, and would be willing to die for you as I would be for them, no matter the religion. Stop making this a debate over religion.
    Not a debate over religion at all, now you're changing the subject.

    1300.17 used to have paragraph and line which restricted wear of certain religious items and practices.

    Now it allows it, but only at the Unit Commanders discretion. Meaning it is not required to be accommodated for your religious practices. Which in turn, is what you were wanting me to provide.

    Many Pagans aren't permitted to wear religious items, symbols, charms, or religious texts when in uniform. Which 1300.17 permits commanders to disallow or allow religious items based on a unit to unit basis, and military mission.

    I wasn't aware they made changes to permit Pagans to wear religious items in uniform if given unit approval. However, I can see now why they aren't allowed in units.

    Per 1300.17, if it impairs the military mission of a unit, you will not be accommodated. (Such as Pagans in the Middle East, because they are taught to specifically hate Pagans beyond others) Or if it effects unit cohesion.

    Meaning Army units are not required to accommodate, and it is at a units choice.

    EDIT:
    The Army as a whole is not required to accommodate religious practices. It's purely commanders discretion per Department of Defense Policy.

    Meaning if her BCT Company decides her religious items will effect unit performance or cohesion, or whatever excuse, she will not be able to have them. Which will be at a Commanders discretion if she can, or cannot have them. (Unit SOPs)

    My mistake, was assuming because it happened to over 40 different people in a webpages group, was that it was all of TRADOC. And not because specific unit commanders determined they wont be allowed for XXX reasons.
    Last edited by FutureEngineer; May 8th, 2012, 01:21 AM.

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    • #62
      Re: Acceptable Religious Materials?

      oh, well.. good luck finding a unit that is not accommodating to religious freedom, its not like its in the Constitution or anything...
      Last edited by iambrian90; May 8th, 2012, 01:24 AM. Reason: because futureengineer makes me want to hit things

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      • #63
        Re: Acceptable Religious Materials?

        Originally posted by iambrian90 View Post
        oh, well.. good luck finding a unit that is not accommodating to religious freedom, its not like its in the Constitution or anything...
        Not like Soldiers can speak freely on their beliefs of politics and anything else they choose while in uniform. It's not like freedom of speech is in the constitution or anything. Being in the military doesn't impact any of the ammendments in the constitution or bill of rights, nope... Not at all.............

        That said, you failed to scroll up in my link.

        The link is the bottom of the page because I was reading through it to double check the date and content. Scroll up.

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        • #64
          Re: Acceptable Religious Materials?

          sorry i don't have the desire to scroll through all of your garbage to find one thing. maybe if you kept your posts to text message length people would respect you more. Also, not being wrong 99.99% of the time would help.

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          • #65
            Re: Acceptable Religious Materials?

            Originally posted by iambrian90 View Post
            sorry i don't have the desire to scroll through all of your garbage to find one thing. maybe if you kept your posts to text message length people would respect you more. Also, not being wrong 99.99% of the time would help.
            In other words, you can't click on a link with Department of Defense Policy (which you were the one who asked me to provide), which throughout the entire policy confirms what I said above?

            Got it.

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            • #66
              Re: Acceptable Religious Materials?

              Originally posted by FutureEngineer View Post
              Recruiter stated the exact opposite.

              He told me from RSP through EIT myself and both of my friends would not be permitted to practice, or wear any religious items, or have any related religious texts on us while in uniform.

              EDIT

              Unless they were: Christian, Budhist, Jewish, Islam, or Hindu in nature.
              Then your recruiter may be misinformed.

              When I was at BCT, it was discouraged to have ANYONE wear symbols (usually necklaces) as your training is pretty aggressive and the item could be pulled, caught on a rope bridge, etc...or even just lost. So even Christians I knew just chose to forego wearing their crosses as a matter of it being a wiser choice in the training environment, not because they were being discriminated against.

              On that note, I was just in a PX yesterday and they had a FULL rang of religious symbols on dog chain tags including a pentogram (excuse me for not knowing what your symbol is).

              On practicing your religion at BCT; it depends on what you mean by practice. If you are planning on trying to perform this bloodlust thing or preach your rhetoric in the bay, that will not be permitted. You are there to train, not recruit for your cause. Frankly you'll probably just tick people off. If you mean by practice go to services, again YOU ARE WRONG. On the listing of religious services offered, we had Wicca (for pagan witches??) So don't tell people who have been there what one can and can't have when at BCT.

              As for this..."Even though remedies are clinical, if it's gone through and discovered plants and herb recipes match off the shelf medication recipes (such as "Resto" which is essentially tylenol peanut butter) even though it's natural medicine, you may run into some problems...""

              Of COURSE you'll run into problems, not because no one wants you to be a witch or whatever, but because it is CONTRABAND!!!! I could have received a bag of oregano, a bottle of Tylenol and jar of regular peanut butter and I wouldn't be allowed to have it either! As for having a religious book "on you"? Stick to the Warrior Guide, its all you should have your nose in when in the training field.

              You are there to TRAIN, like eveyone else; you are not their to shove your religious beliefs down anyones throat.

              Why don't you just focus on GETTING ENLISTED before you worry about whether you can perform a bloodlust ceremony, etc.
              Last edited by Chris36; May 8th, 2012, 09:11 AM.

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              • #67
                Re: Acceptable Religious Materials?

                Originally posted by paradigmscout View Post
                I'm having difficulty finding information on religious materials. I practice parts of several religions and I was wondering what was allowed in BCT. For instance, would I have to have my religion officially down as Daoist if I wanted to bring a copy of the Tao Te Ching, or is it less strict than that?
                To bring the conversation back on track, by regulation, you have the right to have religious materials with you in your locker and on your person during training. AR 600-20 makes several references to the Army's policy of no discrimination based on religion. AR 670-1, 1-7 (pg 25) also describes in detail what religious items you can wear on your person. However, for an easier reference to read, check out the the Army Study Guide. Here's a direct link to the article that pertains to your question: http://www.armystudyguide.com/conten...us-items.shtml.

                Good luck with your training! Let me know if you have any questions along the way.

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                • #68
                  Re: Acceptable Religious Materials?

                  Personally, I even took my wedding ring off a few times.

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                  • #69
                    Re: Acceptable Religious Materials?

                    You know, if I were to delete all the spam on this thread.. Steve...your comment would make you look like a big a-hole.

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                    • #70
                      Re: Acceptable Religious Materials?

                      Originally posted by FutureEngineer View Post
                      But that said, the Army doesn't authorize wear of Mjolnir, Odin's Horn, or a symbol of the nine worlds. And will not permit anything outside of "Pagan" to be written on your Dog Tags. I was told this when I asked members of my covenant currently in service.

                      .
                      I realize there are already WAY too many responses to this, but I know for FACT when I was in BCT more than one person had Jedi as their religion on their dog tags, the ones issued by the Army, NOT ones bought on their own.

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                      • #71
                        Re: Acceptable Religious Materials?

                        FutureEngineer,You are not a soldier. No regulations apply to you and no one cares about your opinions on the policies because you are not a soldier.

                        YOU ARE NOT A SOLDIER

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                        • #72
                          Re: Acceptable Religious Materials?

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                          Originally posted by PALINATHAS View Post
                          I realize there are already WAY too many responses to this, but I know for FACT when I was in BCT more than one person had Jedi as their religion on their dog tags, the ones issued by the Army, NOT ones bought on their own.
                          This is true. I pick a new religion every time they issue me a set, and always try to go for the most out there ones I can think of.

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                          • #73
                            Re: Acceptable Religious Materials?

                            Originally posted by PALINATHAS View Post
                            I realize there are already WAY too many responses to this, but I know for FACT when I was in BCT more than one person had Jedi as their religion on their dog tags, the ones issued by the Army, NOT ones bought on their own.


                            What? Is that true? I know in Europe there is some sort of official religious recognition for the Force, etc. If this is an option I'm totally going for it...I'm not religious at all but a huge Star Wars fan, so why not! LOL

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                            • #74
                              Re: Acceptable Religious Materials?

                              1. I found this thread amazing, hilarious, and fascinating.

                              2. You can take a small religious text with you to basic. (I took a large bible with me to Navy BT, but it was too big for the locker).

                              3. You are allowed a little religious medallion for your ID Tags.

                              4. Religious accommodations are made only for DOD recognized religions and creeds.

                              5. All requests for accommodations are made granted or denied by the BAT Commander.

                              6. You are allowed one hour of worship or meditation a week but this is conditional.

                              7. You should declare your religion before or during basic and tell your S-1 if it changes, which will help your chaplain provide services for you.

                              8. If you die and your ID Tags say something your not, then you are going to look pretty stupid when they do memorial ceremonies or services. I can envision me asking someone's significant other about their jedi faith, or talking about their jedi faith in the ceremony. I can even see myself trying to find a jedi knight "priest" to do the graveside service. Don't be a knuckle head and declare your religion as something it's not!
                              Last edited by Chaplain4me; May 8th, 2012, 07:04 PM.

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                              • #75
                                Re: Acceptable Religious Materials?

                                Originally posted by Chaplain4me View Post
                                1. I found this thread amazing, hilarious, and fascinating.

                                2. You can take a small religious text with you to basic. (I took a large bible with me to Navy BT, but it was too big for the locker).

                                3. You are allowed a little religious medallion for your ID Tags.

                                4. Religious accommodations are made only for DOD recognized religions and creeds.

                                5. All requests for accommodations are made granted or denied by the BAT Commander.


                                6. You are allowed one hour of worship or meditation a week but this is conditional.

                                7. You should declare your religion before or during basic and tell your S-1 if it changes, which will help your chaplain provide services for you.

                                8. If you die and your ID Tags say something your not, then you are going to look pretty stupid when they do memorial ceremonies or services. I can envision me asking someone's significant other about their jedi faith, or talking about their jedi faith in the ceremony. I can even see myself trying to find a jedi knight "priest" to do the graveside service. Don't be a knuckle head and declare your religion as something it's not!
                                4. Where can one find the list? =)

                                8. I'm dying! lol!!!!!!

                                OMG LOL!!!! Have you ever had to actually do that? LOL!!! What if they are of the Dark Side? Do they have the Sith for DoD Recognized?
                                Last edited by FutureEngineer; May 8th, 2012, 07:09 PM.

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