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  • Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

    Howdy,

    I am a contracted 09R/SMP cadet (pay grade E-5) attending BCT at Fort Benning this summer (as I believe it is silly that ROTC officers are not required to attend BCT) and I wanted to know if anyone was aware of the rank I should be wearing while at BCT. I was talking to an RSP SGT the other day and he mentioned that I should probably just bring both specialist rank and the circle cadet rank and then wear whichever the Drill SGT wanted. I always double check my information though but I was curiously unable to locate any info on contracted cadets attending BCT.

    If anyone has any information on this, it would be much appreciated.

  • #2
    Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

    Your question is a bit confusing.

    A) If you "contracted" 09R through your school, then you shouldn't be doing BCT at all since you are doing ROTC in lieu of.

    B) However, if you enlisted with the intent of going 09R, then you are an enlisted soldier and would be wearing whatever is on your MEPS contract.... E2 or maybe E3, unless you have a degree, then its E4.

    C) Finally, if you enlisted originally and then contracted with ROTC before your BCT date, then again, you shouldnt be going to BCT as ... you are a cadet and that SMP/cadet contract nulls your NG contract.

    MEPS doesn't "contract" cadets and then send them to BCT. That's not how it works because cadets, even though they hold the paygrade of E5) are not technically in the Army and are not subject to UCMJ, which you would be at BCT. If you somehow get sent to BCT as either (A) or (C), you are going to have some admin problems once there. Like, get sent home kinda problems becuase the Army can not process you through BCT without a valid Army contract.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

      Originally posted by Grey347 View Post
      Howdy,

      I am a contracted 09R/SMP cadet (pay grade E-5) attending BCT at Fort Benning this summer (as I believe it is silly that ROTC officers are not required to attend BCT) and I wanted to know if anyone was aware of the rank I should be wearing while at BCT. I was talking to an RSP SGT the other day and he mentioned that I should probably just bring both specialist rank and the circle cadet rank and then wear whichever the Drill SGT wanted. I always double check my information though but I was curiously unable to locate any info on contracted cadets attending BCT.

      If anyone has any information on this, it would be much appreciated.
      Depending on how much college you have you'll be an E-1 through E-3. As silly as it is for an Officer to not attend BCT, it's even sillier to think that because you're an ROTC Cadet, you should be afforded a Specialist rank without meeting the requirements for a Specialist Rank (i.e. a 4-year degree). What rank is shown on your enlistment contract? That's the rank you need to wear.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

        If you are an incoming freshman, you are probably not already contracted to the ROTC program. That usually occurs in the fall after a PT test has been conducted and passed. Your state may consider you SMP and give you E-5 pay for drill but until you contract on campus with the ROTC department, you are not consider a contracted ROTC member (unless this has changed in the past 12 months).
        On a side note, ROTC cadets attend LDAC in place of their basic training. Besides Army National Guard, Officers never attend basic. They attend ocs/ots/occ and graduate with a commission. It is strange that the guard ever requires basic for 09S instead of sending people straight to OCS. I've heard different reasons why they require it, but in the end I'll be glad to have finished basic.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

          But he has corporal rank as his avatar lol. I never heard of ROTC cadets attending BCT or someone wearing the cadet rank in Basic. That will garner a nice smoke session with your DS and a nice blood rank in your skin. Obviously, those were the days when hazing was ignored and tolerated. The only cadets I saw in basic were the senior West Point Cadets on their summer training.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

            I wouldn't wear any rank unless you're told to. Don't want to make yourself stand out anymore than you have to.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

              Originally posted by jmclaughlin1701 View Post
              Your question is a bit confusing.

              A) If you "contracted" 09R through your school, then you shouldn't be doing BCT at all since you are doing ROTC in lieu of.

              B) However, if you enlisted with the intent of going 09R, then you are an enlisted soldier and would be wearing whatever is on your MEPS contract.... E2 or maybe E3, unless you have a degree, then its E4.

              C) Finally, if you enlisted originally and then contracted with ROTC before your BCT date, then again, you shouldnt be going to BCT as ... you are a cadet and that SMP/cadet contract nulls your NG contract.

              MEPS doesn't "contract" cadets and then send them to BCT. That's not how it works because cadets, even though they hold the paygrade of E5) are not technically in the Army and are not subject to UCMJ, which you would be at BCT. If you somehow get sent to BCT as either (A) or (C), you are going to have some admin problems once there. Like, get sent home kinda problems becuase the Army can not process you through BCT without a valid Army contract.
              Yes, it seems section (C) applies to me and I was looking into this as I feared there might be some admin problems. Yet I was contracted with the programs express knowledge that I was going to BCT. I'll be asking the higher ups tomorrow to verify all is well here.

              Originally posted by Lance13A View Post
              Depending on how much college you have you'll be an E-1 through E-3. As silly as it is for an Officer to not attend BCT, it's even sillier to think that because you're an ROTC Cadet, you should be afforded a Specialist rank without meeting the requirements for a Specialist Rank (i.e. a 4-year degree). What rank is shown on your enlistment contract? That's the rank you need to wear.
              Thinking upon it you're quite right that it would seem silly for me to wear rank I hadn't earned. This was actually the recommendation of the RSP SGT though, I'm thinking it may be because OCS cadets are typically specialists who are bumped to the pay grade of E-5 and he may have been incorrectly assuming all cadets are thereby specialists when they undergo training akin to basic.

              Originally posted by Rmm2723 View Post
              If you are an incoming freshman, you are probably not already contracted to the ROTC program. That usually occurs in the fall after a PT test has been conducted and passed. Your state may consider you SMP and give you E-5 pay for drill but until you contract on campus with the ROTC department, you are not consider a contracted ROTC member (unless this has changed in the past 12 months).
              On a side note, ROTC cadets attend LDAC in place of their basic training. Besides Army National Guard, Officers never attend basic. They attend ocs/ots/occ and graduate with a commission. It is strange that the guard ever requires basic for 09S instead of sending people straight to OCS. I've heard different reasons why they require it, but in the end I'll be glad to have finished basic.
              To my knowledge I have been officially contracted by means of an ROTC Scholarship Cadet Contract. Reading over this contract there does indeed appear to be a section (section 5 paragraph d) where it states, "I may not enlist in the active army, another military service, or in a military service academy while I am a contracted ROTC cadet unless I am properly released from my ROTC cadet status." I think perhaps this may be a special case where I am attending basic partially to fill in for my not attending MSI course except as a "compression student" wherein I took MSI course and MSII course the same year. Then again I would be very surprised if "special cases" such as myself were not simply instead administratively incorrect in some way.

              Originally posted by Chief Kemosabe View Post
              But he has corporal rank as his avatar lol. I never heard of ROTC cadets attending BCT or someone wearing the cadet rank in Basic. That will garner a nice smoke session with your DS and a nice blood rank in your skin. Obviously, those were the days when hazing was ignored and tolerated. The only cadets I saw in basic were the senior West Point Cadets on their summer training.
              I am a cadet corporal in the ROTC program. There was no cadet rank so I picked the rank I wear whenever I'm in uniform during ROTC events. I'll change it to something inoffensive like PFC so as not to ruffle any feathers I suppose. Haha, half the reason I was asking these questions is because I thought it would be unnecessarily troublesome to inappropriately wear a cadet rank or other rank only to have the Drill SGT's single me out for "funzies."

              Originally posted by ack202 View Post
              I wouldn't wear any rank unless you're told to. Don't want to make yourself stand out anymore than you have to.
              Aye, I'll probably just wear PFC rank I had back in RSP if I can't get this good stuff sorted out before I go.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

                Originally posted by Grey347 View Post
                To my knowledge I have been officially contracted by means of an ROTC Scholarship Cadet Contract. Reading over this contract there does indeed appear to be a section (section 5 paragraph d) where it states, "I may not enlist in the active army, another military service, or in a military service academy while I am a contracted ROTC cadet unless I am properly released from my ROTC cadet status." I think perhaps this may be a special case where I am attending basic partially to fill in for my not attending MSI course except as a "compression student" wherein I took MSI course and MSII course the same year. Then again I would be very surprised if "special cases" such as myself were not simply instead administratively incorrect in some way.
                Then you should be attending LTC, not BCT...

                What does the rank on your enlistment contract say?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

                  Yep, if you are a (C) then you will not be going to BCT. It is going to cause some issues and your RSP NCO or Recruiter are going to get reemed if they try to send you. I doubt if you even make it past MEPS on your old ship date, because of your ROTC contract. Basically, all you need to do is take your new ROTC contract to RSP and have them put you into a unit as a cadet somewhere. If they *still* try to make you go, then you need to get your school cadre (preferably the NG liason) involved becuase they are seriously wrong.

                  As for contracting in ROTC, you'll know if you have. You swear in, usually by your PMS. They tend to make it a big deal. You get paid for your scholarship monthly and the like. You'll have a signed DA 597-3 from your school.

                  If you don't have the DA 597 and were simply promised a contract in the future, then you are still obligated to your NG enlistment contract.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

                    I had a (C) ROTC cadet at BCT with me just back about a year and a half ago. He chose to go to BCT over LDAC and his ROTC cadre let him. Don't know why, that's just what the guy wanted to do.

                    So for the "it can't be done" crowd, I've seen it done.

                    However, you're not done with college so like him you'd likely wear E-3 while you are there.
                    Last edited by eqmcclure; February 21st, 2013, 09:53 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

                      Originally posted by eqmcclure View Post
                      He chose to go to BCT over LDAC and his ROTC cadre let him.
                      The kid was lying to you. LDAC is a commissioning requirement for ROTC. There is no substitution. You simply can't commission through ROTC without completing LDAC. It's a leadership evaluation. You don't get that at BCT. They aren't the same thing at all...

                      If LDAC could be substituted with BCT, then I wouldn't have gone to LDAC. Neither would the other 4 prior-service guys in my LDAC squad. Or the prior E-6 and E-7 in my ROTC Battalion.

                      BCT can subsitute for the MSI and MSII years (as can LTC), but you can't contract until you've completed one of those 3 options.
                      Last edited by Lance13A; February 21st, 2013, 01:21 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

                        I agree with Lance. Unless you are 09S, BCT trainees are individuals who will be going to AIT afterwards. They only way I can say that was the case EQMcClure, was that he decided to go enlisted and get an MOS. Then he probably went SMP later on.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

                          SMP Cadets have the option to attend BCT during the summer if they wish. They are not required to.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

                            Originally posted by Lance13A View Post
                            The kid was lying to you. LDAC is a commissioning requirement for ROTC. There is no substitution. You simply can't commission through ROTC without completing LDAC. It's a leadership evaluation. You don't get that at BCT. They aren't the same thing at all...

                            If LDAC could be substituted with BCT, then I wouldn't have gone to LDAC. Neither would the other 4 prior-service guys in my LDAC squad. Or the prior E-6 and E-7 in my ROTC Battalion.

                            BCT can subsitute for the MSI and MSII years (as can LTC), but you can't contract until you've completed one of those 3 options.
                            Exactly right. You can't bypass LDAC for nothing. LDAC is basically the ROTC Final. They evaluate you on everything you were supposed to learn as a cadet.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

                              Originally posted by 11BSoldier View Post
                              SMP Cadets have the option to attend BCT during the summer if they wish. They are not required to.
                              Can you provide the regulation that supports this? Reason being, I can think of half-a-dozen reasons why this wouldn't fly (contractual obligations, insurance, accountability, etc) and would generally be a bad idea.

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