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Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

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  • #16
    Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

    Sir, I have to get back to class right now, but I took an 09R to MEPS and he chose to attend BCT. It was offered by the GC.

    I will find the reg. in 601-210 and get back to you this afternoon.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

      Originally posted by 11BSoldier View Post
      SMP Cadets have the option to attend BCT during the summer if they wish. They are not required to.
      http://www.utsa.edu/armyrotc/docs/si...rship_prog.pdf

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

        Originally posted by 11BSoldier View Post
        Sir, I have to get back to class right now, but I took an 09R to MEPS and he chose to attend BCT. It was offered by the GC.

        I will find the reg. in 601-210 and get back to you this afternoon.
        There have been so many new changes (e.g. NCOs attending BCT) so probably this is another exception to the rule.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

          No problem SGT.

          If that is the case, that is going to really muck up some schools and cadets. For example, what happens when a cadet (contracted SMP type, 09R) goes to BCT and gets injured? Who foots that bill? Shoot, what happens if they kid dies?? Army isn't bound to provide SGLI coverage because they are not a soldier and CC doesn't have SGLI for cadets. What if they get recycled past the report date back to school/ROTC?

          See, BCT is a lot longer than 30 days, which is the time limit Cadet Command puts on its cadets for pay/insurance purposes, for any sort of Army training. We'll send cadets to hooah schools all day long (AB, AAS, etc) but Cadet Command still owns them. And cadets are not bound by UCMJ. Which is also why all of the primary Instructors are graders at LTC and LDAC are CC Cadre. They are the only valid command authority that cadets are technically obligated to recognize.

          Now, take that same kid and say he just loses his dang mind at BCT. He tells his DS or 1SG to go take a flying leap into a grenade pit. Nothing can be done to them, really, because they are not in the Army and not bound by UCMJ (we had an MSIV at LDAC who tested that with some FT Lewis staff who were acting like idoits... it was fun to watch). All the staff could so is send him home with a crappy 1059... which really would have no bearing on anything unless his cadre decided it needed to.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

            Originally posted by 11BSoldier View Post
            SMP Cadets have the option to attend BCT during the summer if they wish. They are not required to.
            Post-contract Cadets?

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            • #21
              Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

              Good discussion on the topic.

              http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...0193208AAXI32S

              If you really crave the drill sergeant experience ask your ROTC unit about sending you to Leadership Training Course between your sophmore and junior year. It's about a month long course at Ft. Knox, KY taught by drill sergeants. By their own admission they're only giving you about 10% of the yelling they give recruits, but I suppose it's something. Source(s):

              ROTC grad
              Former ROTC cadre
              http://cosm.georgiasouthern.edu/rotc/faqs.html

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

                But this site states....

                http://www.nc.ngb.army.mil/Recruiting/Pages/ROTC.aspx

                What are the benefits of becoming a SMP Cadet in the National Guard?:
                • Basic Training and/or AIT is not required but will allow you to maximize your benefits. Many Cadets attend one or both schools before becoming an SMP.
                • Monthly drill pay = roughly $255 per weekend drill/Annual Training = $4,756 per yr
                • ROTC Stipend = $350 a month during school for MS II’s, $450 – MS III, and $500 – MS IV
                • $4,500 a yr Federal Tuition Assistance (TA) to pay for college plus the NC National Guard (NG) allows you to submit your request on-line the day you swear in to the NG. NC provides In-state tuition rates the day you sign up (waiver must be given to school before classes begin). Must apply for Fed TA

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

                  Originally posted by Chief Kemosabe View Post
                  before becoming an SMP
                  The before is the key part, though. You can go SMP if you're already enlisted or you can enlist as a 09R and go to BCT, come right back to ROTC and contract. What doesn't happen, though, is contracted Cadets attending BCT.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

                    Oh yeah, we had a rather large amount of SMP cadets at my school. Most of them were troops who came over after AIT or a few years in the Guard...

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

                      Originally posted by Lance13A View Post
                      The before is the key part, though. You can go SMP if you're already enlisted or you can enlist as a 09R and go to BCT, come right back to ROTC and contract. What doesn't happen, though, is contracted Cadets attending BCT.
                      Roger that Sir. My circumstance was the individual was enrolled in MS1, non-contact, knowing he was going to contract his Sophomore year; volunteered to attend BCT. I can't find anything in 601-210 regarding SPM cadets, contract or not-contract eligibility to attend BCT. He did not contract any MOS, which if he did, would have required him to attend AIT. He contracted 09R, but has a ship date to voluntary attend BCT.

                      Luckily, I'm currently at the schoolhouse so I'll ask the question and get clarification.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

                        Ok, looks like it got nailed.

                        A new soldier can enlist as a 09S, which means they are coming in as an officer candidate and are required to attend BCT (that voluntary thing still puzzles me... it's not supposed to be. MEPS may be steering you wrong). At this point, ROTC doesn't mean squat, because 09S is a path to attend OCS.

                        Now, once he swears in as an 09S, he very well could go up to the school, swear in with ROTC and become a 09R... which at point, negates the 09S. That is what I did. Came in under 09S, did BCT (again..) and switched to ROTC after Phase 1.

                        Lance is right. Contracted, swore in cadets do not go to BCT.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

                          The original question was what rank should the OP wear at BCT. When the OP gets there and is issued gear, they will give him/her rank to wear. Just wear what ever they give you.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

                            I asked around and finally got a few responses back. I was told to reference AR 601-210, section 9-14, which addresses my particular situation. As a special caveat of my SMP contract I am required to go to BCT to fill in for year MSII (which I am recorded as not actually being part of yet, I am an official MSI and unofficial MSII). I was told I will receive E-5 pay at BCT and to wear cadet rank (I will be bringing PFC rank just in case however).

                            Thanks for all the responses, I greatly appreciated them.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

                              Yes, I am familiar with the AR on this issue. The actual section that would apply to you goes over TPU enrollment is 9-14.A.5(g) for your level. Yadda, yadda, yadda....

                              However, to join the SMP program and be a cadet in the Advanced Course (which is MSIII/IV), cadets have to -

                              (16) If the member has no prior military Service they must enter on IADT within 270 days after enlistment to
                              successfully complete 8 weeks BT. Basically, BT negates the MSI/II requirement

                              (17) If member has prior military Service and has accomplished a BT course on AD or ADT conducted by a U.S.
                              Armed Force, entry on IADT to complete 8 week BT is not required. Same

                              (18) Enroll into ROTC Basic Course/Advanced Course (MS II/MS III/MS IV) within 1 year. Yes, so. You have to actually enroll as a MSIII/IV!

                              (19) BT requirement: This option does not apply to persons already enrolled in ROTC (MS II/MS III/MS IV); these
                              individuals are transferred from ROTC (Control Group) to the TPU. They have already executed the DD Form 4 series
                              when enlisting for ROTC, under 10 USC 511a. Applicants eligible under this option enlist under 10 USC 511d, and if
                              they previously have not completed BT they must be scheduled within 270 days Here it is. If you have already enrolled in MSII/III/IV, you do not have to complete BT

                              So, basically, like I stated before, you will be contracting as "whatever" MOS (like primary MOS 09S and secondary MOS "band member" or something like that) as easy enlistment. You will be paid based on your college (E-2, E-3 if you have 60 hours). You go do that, come home and then do another contract as an SMP (if you can enroll as a MSIII at that time). At that time, you'll get E-5 pay.

                              Sorry guy, not saying the Recruiter it lying to you or anything, but it's pretty cut and dry. You are an easy enlistment, easy number. The only reason to attend BCT is in lieu of MSI & MSII year. And you can't attend BCT as an SMP or contracted cadet.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Contracted SMP Cadet Attending BCT Rank Questions

                                Hmm, aye, after a more careful reading of the documents it does seem to be the case that contracted cadets shouldn't be attending basic. At least, insofar as they aren't mentioned as attending it. Anyhow an SFC from an RSP unit gave me this section of the AR to answer my questions regarding pay at basic.

                                i. Policy applicable to a potential participant (09R10). The following policy and procedures are applicable to a Soldier not enrolled in the ROTC Advanced Course, but has enlisted, or been reassigned, as a potential participant in the ROTC/SMP.

                                (1) Potential participant. A “potential participant” is a Soldier who is not enrolled in the ROTC Basic/Advanced Course (MS III/MS IV), has been enlisted under Option 9–H, or is assigned to a TPU, and executes a DA Form 4824 in conjunction with a DA Form 3540 (Certificate and Acknowledgement of U.S. Army Reserve Service Requirements and Methods of Fulfillment).

                                (12) Pay. A CDT is paid in the pay grade and years of Service (YOS) attained, but not less than pay grade E5 (para 10–6d), by JUMPS–RC under TRC “T.” While participating as a CDT in the ROTC/SMP until the date of commissioning, adjustments to pay will include basic pay table increases, basic allowance for subsistence (BAS), basic allowance for quarters (BAQ), and drill pay based on YOS and longevity for creditable Service in the computation of base pay. The subsistence allowance entitled a CDT enrolled in the ROTC Basic/Advanced Course (MS III/MS IV) is not affected by the CDT’s participation in the ROTC/SMP.

                                The situation here is that I received a three year GRFD scholarship (which required I contract) and completed an SMP agreement under the premise that I would attend BCT to make up for MSI/MSII year, as in (16). I was afterwards enrolled in the MSI/MSII class for good measure. Meaning I had one semester in the MSI class and the second I was put in the MSII class. I believe this would mean I was still an MSI? Regardless, I have been attending monthly drills with my unit as a cadet and my pay grade has been officially set to E-5. Curiously, I noted this because in Human Resources Command and AKO my rank is now listed as SGT. I'm not sure whether this is again because there is no CDT rank and rank is firmly correlated with pay grade in the system but I am indeed being paid as a SGT for my drills.

                                I still haven't heard back from an SSG who handles officer recruiting and CDT's at the reception following basic (which I also attended) but I'll keep at it. I'll also ask the ROTC cadre in charge of contracting for more clarification regarding these matters, because the admin in charge of contracting seemed utterly unconcerned with my situation and seemed to believe everything was proceeding precisely as it should. Perhaps it is? Still, seems the rabbit hole is getting deeper, I'll keep trying to get all this sorted out before something dull happens.

                                Comment

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