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  • Navy IRR to PA National Guard

    I am currently sitting in the Navy IRR and that is only because I did not like my career progression in the Navy SELRES, but miss the military in my life. I am currently an O-3 holding a bachelors degree in civil engineering from The Citadel and currently am employed as such. I have yet to speak to a recruiter about my possibilities but have seen from these forums that there is a wealth of knowledge on here. I am just wondering what my options would be if I transferred to the PA NG. Does my civilian job help me at all, possibly pointing me to the Corps of Engineers? Does my rank of being an O-3 hurt me, coming into the NG without the required Captain's course and other training (Having active duty friends I know they have been through alot of training as an O-3)? Any insight anyone could provide would be greatly appreciated.

    V/R,
    Brandon M. Laskey

  • #2
    Re: Navy IRR to PA National Guard

    I put in officers from all military services and components (even one Merchant Marine). I must be forthright with you .... Except for the Marines, I regretted most of them. There are significant cultural differences between the "green" services (USA, USMC) and the "blue" services (USN, USAF). Your Navy background doesn't make you a bad person, but it does give you a significant set of hurdles to overcome.

    The process is not hard, but it is time-consuming, filled with bursts of activity, and long periods of tedium. If everything fell into place in your favor, I can't imagine this taking less than 90 days.

    First, gather all documents related to your military and civilian education, training, and experience. Your OSM will package it with a summary cover letter, and send it to the Engineer branch proponent. The proponent will decide whether to let you into Engineer career field. Based on what you've written, I am confident you'll get Engineer branch. They like PE's. You should get a reply within 30 days. If all else fails, try Chemical or Air Defense branches. They'll take anyone.

    Then, request a Conditional Release (Form DD368) from your current chain of command. I'm sure the Navy IRR will grant it to you ... once you find the person authorized to grant it. Finding that person will be a nightmare of bureaucratic incompetence. Watch the movie Brazil first, to get in the mood. The DD368 is only good for 90 days, so move with a sense of urgency on your next step, which is the Federal Recognition packet.

    The Fed Rec Board meets monthly in your State to review and take actions that law and/or regulation require (e.g., initial appointment of officers). Your OSM will have a checklist of documents for you to provide or prepare. Once you submit the packet, the Board will schedule you for a personal appearance within 30-90 days. They'll review everything, ensure that you meet legal and regulatory standards for appointment, then execute the dual oaths of office (to the President and the Governor). Congratulations on becoming the newest member of the oldest military service in the nation, the Army National Guard.

    Your next step is to talk with your chain of command about completing the Engineer Captain's Career Course, and any other education specified by your branch proponent. Get on the education immediately, because it only gets harder as time passes.

    Oh, and immediately become a life member of NGAUS and your State Association.

    Best wishes, let us know how it all turns out.
    Last edited by matthew.ritchie; June 1st, 2010, 11:54 PM.

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    • #3
      Re: Navy IRR to PA National Guard

      The one thing that may be in my favor is the fact that I have been in mostly "green" Navy units throughout my short career (SeaBee's and Cargo Handling Battalions).

      What are the main things that you see as "failures" when bringing in a "blue" officer to a green world?

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      • #4
        Re: Navy IRR to PA National Guard

        Originally posted by citdrum2
        What are the main things that you see as "failures" when bringing in a "blue" officer to a green world?
        A fundamental misunderstanding of the Army culture, and expectations. Someone who has spent ten years in the Navy has likely never qualified with a weapon of any kind, spent a night in a tent, gone on a patrol, or driven a military vehicle. These are all basic, fundamental tasks and experiences that virtually everyone in the Army has. This lack of background may not sound relevant, but that's what I've seen.

        The Navy and Air Force man their equipment, but the Army and Marines equip their manpower. It's a core paradigm, and it shapes how we view the world differently.

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        • #5
          Re: Navy IRR to PA National Guard

          Well lucky for me in the SeaBees we basically move and live with the Marines. Yes we do not learn any offensive tatics but are trained in the basic company level weapons and defensive tatics, so I wouldn't say that I am totally blue. I have come from a Marine Corps family, but unfortunately when I was in school the Marines weren't offering and the Navy was so I had to do what was best for me at the time, but I think I may have missed my calling. That is another thign bring me to the Guard, other than missing the military its a chance to be able to truely lead men, and learn from them as well.

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          • #6
            Re: Navy IRR to PA National Guard

            Originally posted by matthew.ritchie
            A fundamental misunderstanding of the Army culture, and expectations. Someone who has spent ten years in the Navy has likely never qualified with a weapon of any kind, spent a night in a tent, gone on a patrol, or driven a military vehicle. These are all basic, fundamental tasks and experiences that virtually everyone in the Army has. This lack of background may not sound relevant, but that's what I've seen.

            The Navy and Air Force man their equipment, but the Army and Marines equip their manpower. It's a core paradigm, and it shapes how we view the world differently.
            Having come form the Navy, I would have to agree with the above. However, I do not think the challenges are insurmountable. Each of those skills can be learned if you put extra effort into it and realize you are starting with a disadvantage.

            If possible, taking a step back in rank when you transfer might not be a bad thing. It would ease the burden during your transition period. Your experience as an O-3 should make leadership at the O-2 level easy, allowing you to dedicate a little more of your efforts toward learning the Army way.

            I have seen some guys go from "What is this prior Navy guy doing here?" to "How did we do things before this guy got here?" in a short period of time. I have also seen guys that are the subject of questions like "Are all guys in the Navy like that? How come you're not like him?"

            There are challenges, but the individual makes the difference. Make us proud! Show them that Navy personnel are flexible and bring a lot to the table!
            Last edited by SFC_Wilson; April 22nd, 2011, 01:15 PM.

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            • #7
              Re: Navy IRR to PA National Guard

              Originally posted by RobLyman
              If possible, taking a step back in rank when you transfer might not be a bad thing. It would ease the burden during your transition period. Your experience as an O-3 should make leadership at the O-2 level easy, allowing you to dedicate a little more of your efforts toward learning the Army way.
              Sadly, there is no non-judicial way to reduce an officer in rank. Enlisted can take an administrative reduction, but officers can't. It's up-or-out.

              Note to nitpickers: A basic branch officer appointed at a lower grade in a special branch isn't a reduction in rank, since that action is a new appointment, under a different provision of law and regulation.

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              • #8
                Re: Navy IRR to PA National Guard

                Originally posted by matthew.ritchie
                Sadly, there is no non-judicial way to reduce an officer in rank. Enlisted can take an administrative reduction, but officers can't. It's up-or-out.
                It is odd that other services DO treat reversion to warrant as judicial while the Army doesn't.

                Would it be considered judicial...or even possible, for a prior Navy O-4, who reverted to CW2 when he joined the guard, to then be commissioned as an O-3?

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                • #9
                  Re: Navy IRR to PA National Guard

                  Originally posted by RobLyman
                  Would it be considered judicial...or even possible, for a prior Navy O-4, who reverted to CW2 when he joined the guard, to then be commissioned as an O-3?
                  No, because we must appoint the individual at the highest grade to which he is entitled. I'm sure that was meant to work in favor of the individual, as protection against discrimination, although it can have an unintended consequence.

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                  • #10
                    Length of training

                    So everyone has been very help answering my questions on the switch from "blue" to "green", but I have another question. I am going to try to get bracnched in the engineers, being I am a civil engineer in the civilian world, what would my training look like for BOLCII/III. I am not really concerned with material but more the length. I just want to know what I will be in for so that I can make things fit with my employer and the projects I am working on. I know Ill have 4-5 weeks of the Warrior Transition Course, but how long is everything else as far as training goes.

                    I know my OSM will be the best source of knowledge but I was just looking for some pre-emptive info from the forums.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Length of training

                      Originally posted by citdrum2
                      So everyone has been very help answering my questions on the switch from "blue" to "green", but I have another question. I am going to try to get bracnched in the engineers, being I am a civil engineer in the civilian world, what would my training look like for BOLCII/III. I am not really concerned with material but more the length. I just want to know what I will be in for so that I can make things fit with my employer and the projects I am working on. I know Ill have 4-5 weeks of the Warrior Transition Course, but how long is everything else as far as training goes.

                      I know my OSM will be the best source of knowledge but I was just looking for some pre-emptive info from the forums.

                      Sir plan for 3-4 months for BOLC

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                      • #12
                        Re: Length of training

                        Yup. About 4 months.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Length of training

                          that's pretty impressive, down to 3-4 months.

                          So, a hypothetical. A 22-23 year old could graduate with his gold bar in mid May. Let's say the graduate is a teacher. Officer could graduate, get on the plane the next day, complete his training and be back in mid-August, in time to do a week of teacher training and then start teaching.

                          That would be pretty impressive.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Length of training

                            Originally posted by 49thadband
                            that's pretty impressive, down to 3-4 months.

                            So, a hypothetical. A 22-23 year old could graduate with his gold bar in mid May. Let's say the graduate is a teacher. Officer could graduate, get on the plane the next day, complete his training and be back in mid-August, in time to do a week of teacher training and then start teaching.

                            That would be pretty impressive.

                            Ehhh no.

                            All new ROTC commisioned LTs do not leave untill June.

                            Most of my LTs do not have orders for BOLC until july or later.

                            One is next march. He commisioned in December.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Length of training

                              yeah I looked at ATRRS. Best thing a brand new teacher could do would be to wait a year, depending upon MOS, go to branch school in early May and be back before the new school year starts.

                              Nice problem for a new teacher to have, to unfortunately be required to miss the end of his/her first year teaching.

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