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  • OCS with no waiver

    Hopefully someone has experience with this...
    I started OCS Phase 0 last month and the second part is closely approaching. I have been in the process of trying to obtain a moral waiver for a 10 year old misdemeanor conviction. First the recruiters informed me that I needed 3 letters of recommendations, so I got her 5 good ones, then I was told I needed one from an O-5 or higher in my chain of command which I was denied. Either way, I am still on point to attend OCS and am told that I will be going through the whole program and I only need the waiver to commission. This seems a little off and would like someone to shed some light in this area.

  • #2
    Re: OCS with no waiver

    Sounds right. Same thing happens with security clearances.

    You need an O-5 recommendation as part of the packet even without a waiver. That shouldn't be a big deal. I would resolve all that sooner than later though. It would not be good to go through everything & then not be able to commission.
    Last edited by SFC_Wilson; April 22nd, 2011, 11:27 AM.

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    • #3
      Re: OCS with no waiver

      Your telling me! My recruiter never told me I needed an O-5 recommendation even without the waiver. In my state, all you need is your unit commander and battalion commander to sign off. Well duh, the battalion commander is an O-5, but wouldn't you know, he signed my application for OCS, but would not give me a letter for the waiver. I'm going to go to the acceleration in a couple weeks and pass everything and go through my new unit, too much B.S. in my current unit.

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      • #4
        Re: OCS with no waiver

        I'm VERY surprised they would send you to accelerated without a commission ready packet. That is pretty big risk they're taking. I don't know if they're saying it has to be signed by the first O-5 in your chain of command, or any O-5. If it's any, you should be able to get the recruiting commander or the BN commander in the RTI that's over OCS to sign. At least that's additional options.

        I assume you had a sit down meeting with your BC & he refused to sign. If that's the case, why? I don't tend to question the wisdom of many O-5s, especially regarding one of their own soldiers. Sounds to me like there's more to the story.

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        • #5
          Re: OCS with no waiver

          The story is this.. I was first told by my officer strength manager that I needed 3 letters of reference for my waiver. Everything else for my officer packet has been completed. My commanders letter of reference and signature and the battalion commanders signature are all included in the officer packet. As for the waiver, instead of the 3 references, I submitted 5. Including a Chief of Police, a college professor, a retired LTC, a retired COL and a former boss of 5 years. This was then submitted to NGB per my officer strength manager. It was kicked back because one of the recommendation letters needs to be from an o-5 or higher in my chain of command. I then submitted a letter through my chain to the first o-5, the battalion commander, the same one that signed my ocs packet. He denied it and denied even speaking to me personally about it. So therefore, I am left with the instructions not to worry about it because I do not need the waiver until I commission. You are right about there being more to the story, but I am sorry to say that the rest of the story is unknown to me, and is not on my end. I am fighting with my unit now to go to the next officer in line, which is the brigade commander, but am being told that it is career suicide. Either way, I am told by the the officer strength manager that I am good to go until commissioning which leaves me wonder where to go from here. I was debating contacting the IG because this has been nothing but an unnecessary hassle. I have no problem getting turned down from day one that I could not go to OCS, but to invest the time, energy and money after completing everything that has been asked of me and then some, I have a real problem with the disconnect. Any advice and/or direction would be greatly appreciated.

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          • #6
            Re: OCS with no waiver

            I'm having similar waiver problems. I was arrested for DUI 5 years ago, but fought it and was eventually found not guilty because its pretty clear on the video that I'm not drunk and not impaired in any way. For some reason, though, OCS has been telling me I need a conviction waiver, so I've gone through all the steps to get it done. First, I was told I need a request from my CO (O-3) along with my request and statement of circumstances. At the second Phase 0 drill in April, we were told that it needs to be a waiver request from an O-5, not O-3, so I work on getting ahold of my BN CDR and get the request. Now, at May Phase 0 drill, we're told that NGB just contacted them and said, no, its not a waiver request, but an actual letter of reccomendation, and it needs to be O-5, and my BN CDR is unavailable until July most likely. I'm still baffled as to why I need a conviction waiver for something I wasn't convicted of. They have all my court documents showing the not guily verdict, but they're still wanting the waiver. Its frustrating for sure.

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            • #7
              Re: OCS with no waiver

              @Nelson... You just said they no longer need a waiver on you. You need a letter of recommendation from an O-5 for your packet - everyone does.

              I interviewed with my BC & he signed off my commissioned flight packet, then when OCS suddenly at the last minute wanted a letter of recommendation from an O-5 rather than an O-4, I had to scramble. I sent through my XO, and my BC said he didn't want to sign for someone he didn't know - yeah, it's funny now. So, I ended up getting the recruiting BC to sign off & send it to RTI. They turned around real fast on that, and I saw CC msg of it going to RTI literally right before I got in the car to drive over to ship to accelerated.

              @armyguy... seeing your Bde CDR is not career suicide. Going over someone's head means you're saying they're wrong and you want their boss to make the right decision and make them look bad. It's not necessarily suicidal, but it's not a real good way to make friends.

              I don't know if you drill with your BN, but if so you need to go take advantage of that open door policy. Either way, you may consider talking to your CSM, your 1SG may be able to help you with that. When a BC is wrong about something, it's the CSM that talks reason to them. You need to meet face to face with your BC and talk about this.

              If he's saying no to you, he can explain why and tell you to your face, or you can convince him otherwise. He may very well say no to you for his own valid reasons, and that's his call. If he says no, you need to make a decision right there if you're going to try to go over his head or to another chain of command.

              If you're going over him... you say you understand and respect what he's saying, and you mean no disrespect, but you have no other choice than to request permission to speak to the bde CDR on the matter. That's a decisive action, there's potential downside to it, but you should be able to see your Bde CDR and have the issue fairly addressed.

              If you're going elsewhere... as in moving to another unit to get this signed, that's working the system, and that's part of the process unfortunately. I don't know if your state is formally attaching you to RTI at some point in the process, but if they do then that BC can sign for you. They obviously think you need to be there or they wouldn't be sending you to training. Your gaining unit doesn't work. You don't move to that unit till you accept your commission. The assignment is on the same order. You could transfer though, possibly to that gaining unit. There's options, but none of them are really perfect.

              Honestly, the best thing is to get in front of your current BC and see what the problem is. If he has issues with your situation, you should be able to make him feel more comfortable with signing, or you most likely should not be an officer.

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              • #8
                Re: OCS with no waiver

                I did forget to mention, when I asked to speak to my battalion commander through my chain to explain my situation in person, after he had said no to the recommendation letter, he denied my request to speak with him as well. Both the battalion commander and brigade commander do not drill in my building, but rather 3 hrs away. My chain does not want to send a request to the brigade commander for me. They tell me I have to write a letter and send it up the chain rather than use an open door policy. Is any of this accurate? Is this something I can file a complaint with the IG and/or my local congressman?
                I hate to be "that guy," but when I have my heart set on something, I go for it and dont quit until I see it through. Today I got word from my OCS recruiter that I will need the letter of recommendation from an O-5 or higher in my chain in order to continue to ocs. Funny how a letter from a full bird colonel from another unit in the state doesn't suffice, and he actually knows me.

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                • #9
                  Re: OCS with no waiver

                  I don't know who you're going through in terms of your chain of command. When I want to talk to my BC, I knock on his door and ask if he has a second. The NCO side of the house in particular tend to be real sticklers for going through umpteen zillion people to get five minutes in front of the boss. That's good to a degree. It settles BS at the lowest level possible. This isn't something that goes away if they ignore it though. You really do need to see your BC.

                  There is no IG complaint. No one has wronged you. You asked your BC to do something, he reviewed it & said no. You asked to see him to talk about it and he said no. That's fully within his rights to do. You now have the right to ask to see your Bde CDR, and your chain of command has the right to say no.

                  Don't start a congressional to fix this. You don't know how much trouble those are to deal with. Everyone has to drop everything to deal with those. It doesn't make people happy. It won't change his decision, and will start you off in a bad place.

                  Talk to your RTI instead. Be honest with them. Explain you are not being allowed to meet with your BC to sign off. Ask if they can help.

                  They can talk to your BC a lot easier than you can. They can find out why he's not signing off on you. Maybe they can ask him to meet with you in person. They can also transfer you to RTI and have their BC review your request.

                  Work with the system to achieve your goals. Don't try to bash it into what you want to happen, cause it never works.

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                  • #10
                    Re: OCS with no waiver

                    Armyguy626-

                    I think there is more to the story then your posting. Ie, your performance in the unit or what youíre asking to be waived.

                    Go have a heart to heart talk with your company commander about your packet or at least find an officer in your unit who will give you an un-varnished look. Iím betting your company commander and battalion commander have already had a conversation about you and your commander isnít strongly endorsing your packet. Keep in mind your company commander is your best ally in this.

                    While going to the IG is your right, keep in mind, the IG probably wonít be much help as thereís no AR/NGR reg that the commander is violating.

                    I would not recommend talking to the brigade commander. Not that its career suicide, itís just that I seriously doubt a brigade commander is going overrule one his battalion commanders. Also, Iíd refrain from dragging the CSM into it. This is not in his lane and I can tell you from personal experience, it can annoy the battalion commander.

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