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Straight 09s or Enlisted to Officer?

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  • #16
    Re: Straight 09s or Enlisted to Officer?

    Yeah I would agree, that when you go from NCO to Officer you need to understand your playing a different role. I remember when I was a E5 I hated when a LT butted in my business, when I become a LT Ill know not to do that cause its NCO business. I use to think, "sir you chose to be an officer now go in your office and hush." Your totally right as to backing off and not micromanaging, and yes I understand trying to make the unit stronger and all its just really rough spending so much time on a private to walk, talk, and act a certain way, then you as their leader go on leave and come back and 2 of your best soldiers are in another squad, because the Platoon sgt wants to spread it out. I see his reasoning but in the meantime he was burning me out. Instead of griping about it , i said to myself, ill just get promoted, so I can run my platoon how I like, and make everyone accountable. I dont think you should expect good NCO's to do everything while you have other NCO's that are just trying to buy time till their next assignment. As far as going officer before enlisted, theres nothing in the world wrong with it and it want make you a better leader if you go enlisted first. I think had I know then what I know now, heck I would have gone officer first. However I would not change a thang in the world, because I had alot of challenging and very tough times as an NCO. Hopefully it will help me out, when I get commissioned. Im really behind the curb, by going enlisted first, but thats just the way it went for me, I didnt know how the army worked till about 3 years after enlisting lol.
    Last edited by SFC_Wilson; April 28th, 2011, 12:26 PM.

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    • #17
      Re: Straight 09s or Enlisted to Officer?

      There's no such thing as NCO business!

      That officer is responsible to his boss for everything you do or fail to do. It's very much his business to check up on what you're doing and make corrections so it comes in line with the command's intent (to include his own intent).

      The PSG is supposed to be there as the right hand man to make sure that's happening, but if the PL isn't at minimum out there spot checking to ensure it's being executed the way he called for, then he failed. If he actually does go back in that office & stay out of your way, then he really failed. He needs to give that NCO space to do his job, but it's his purpose in life to make sure not only the end result but the process too are the way it's being handed down.

      Don't micromanage, but do be involved.
      Last edited by SFC_Wilson; April 28th, 2011, 12:26 PM.

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      • #18
        Re: Straight 09s or Enlisted to Officer?

        Have you ever been a NCO, or did you come strait out of school?
        I tell you what, you go ask your Command Sergeant Major if there is such a thing called NCO Business!!! Go ask him that. I guarantee he'll correct you. It sounds like you have never been in those NCO meetings with the First Sergeant, Cause I sure have and everyone Ive ever been in the First Sergeant or CSM lets you know to hold your own and let the LT know, Hey sir I got this. Just answer that first question I asked, Have you ever been an NCO and that will answer my question. If you have never walked in those boots, then you dont know anything about anything that is said in those NCO meetings. I know exactly what is put out cause Ive been there, so dont tell me there is no such thing as NCO Business, maybe there is no regs or policies on it but within the NCO support channel it does exist. Just ask your CSM. You know and I know that what your saying is true, the Lt is responsible for what goes on, however we both know that Lt's dont do anything. They sit in there little cubicle and play on there computer, every Lt Ive ever had was lost in the sauce and had no business going threw the ranks correcting soldiers. Its ok if he lets the Platoon Sergeant know what he sees but has no business walking around playing the Buck Sergeant. That platoon sergeant is the one who gets it done at the end of the day. You know that.
        Last edited by SFC_Wilson; April 28th, 2011, 12:27 PM.

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        • #19
          Re: Straight 09s or Enlisted to Officer?

          Originally posted by dnall
          There's no such thing as NCO business!

          That officer is responsible to his boss for everything you do or fail to do. It's very much his business to check up on what you're doing and make corrections so it comes in line with the command's intent (to include his own intent).

          The PSG is supposed to be there as the right hand man to make sure that's happening, but if the PL isn't at minimum out there spot checking to ensure it's being executed the way he called for, then he failed. If he actually does go back in that office & stay out of your way, then he really failed. He needs to give that NCO space to do his job, but it's his purpose in life to make sure not only the end result but the process too are the way it's being handed down.

          Don't micromanage, but do be involved.
          I disagree, there is a thing as NCO business, it's their job to train soldiers. It is the officers job to tell them how and what training is needed, then to supervise. If you don't allow them to do their job (business) then by definition you are micromanaging.
          Last edited by SFC_Wilson; April 28th, 2011, 12:28 PM.

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          • #20
            Re: Straight 09s or Enlisted to Officer?

            Originally posted by batman
            Have you ever been a NCO, or did you come strait out of school?
            I tell you what, you go ask your Command Sergeant Major if there is such a thing called NCO Business!!! Go ask him that. I guarantee he'll correct you. It sounds like you have never been in those NCO meetings with the First Sergeant, Cause I sure have and everyone Ive ever been in the First Sergeant or CSM lets you know to hold your own and let the LT know, Hey sir I got this. Just answer that first question I asked, Have you ever been an NCO and that will answer my question. If you have never walked in those boots, then you dont know anything about anything that is said in those NCO meetings. I know exactly what is put out cause Ive been there, so dont tell me there is no such thing as NCO Business, maybe there is no regs or policies on it but within the NCO support channel it does exist. Just ask your CSM. You know and I know that what your saying is true, the Lt is responsible for what goes on, however we both know that Lt's dont do anything. They sit in there little cubicle and play on there computer, every Lt Ive ever had was lost in the sauce and had no business going threw the ranks correcting soldiers. Its ok if he lets the Platoon Sergeant know what he sees but has no business walking around playing the Buck Sergeant. That platoon sergeant is the one who gets it done at the end of the day. You know that.
            Seriously?? LT's don't do anything? Using your own thought process, have you been in an officers meetings? Do you know how much work we do after hours? I have been an active duty NCO and an officer and that has got to be one of the most disrespectful statements I have ever read.
            Last edited by SFC_Wilson; April 28th, 2011, 12:29 PM.

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            • #21
              Re: Straight 09s or Enlisted to Officer?

              Are you ready to be an officer at this point? Cause, someone that thinks LTs sit in an office playing games sounds real dang lost to me. Maybe you've had incompetent officers around you, I don't know. More likely you've never seen what goes on behind the scenes & don't understand how to be a manager.

              NCOs do have a job to do. We all understand that. They are the primary trainers & they focus on the individual tasks/training. That LT focuses on collective/battle tasks (from the Co METL) and on commander's intent (including the PL's intent).

              You can't accomplish collective tasks to standard if the individual building blocks don't provide a foundation. The PL absolutely must be out there spot checking his NCOs to ensure they are doing what they've been instructed to do the way they've been instructed to do it. When they aren't, it isn't the LTs place to step in & do it for them, it's his job to fix the jacked up NCO, hopefully with the PSG's help.

              I get that SLs & TLs need to defend their lane, but the left & right limits of that lane are not defined by them. The commander defines and enforces that as a team with the PSG. They then follow up to make sure it's happening like that.

              If an NCO is in their defined lane & doing what they've been instructed to do to standard, and an officer is micromanaging, then yeah, you push back & say "I got this sir." The NCO support channel is then there to back you & the 1SG can have that conversation with the CO, who can then in turn fix/mentor his PLs to follow his intent.

              However, when that NCO is doing their own thing, that's not acceptable. That's where the officer is supposed to tell them "that's the wrong answer" and make corrections. If that officer is hanging out in an office drinking coffee & playing games, rather than leading the platoon, then they are very wrong.
              Last edited by SFC_Wilson; April 28th, 2011, 12:33 PM.

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              • #22
                Re: Straight 09s or Enlisted to Officer?

                I could not agree with you more. Your totally right. I think I just got off to the wrong start with you. That is a good thread and I completely agree. The officers I was around were just lazy I guess. I feel I am ready to be an officer, trust me I can lead al ot better than the ones that have led me.
                Last edited by SFC_Wilson; April 28th, 2011, 12:34 PM.

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                • #23
                  Re: Straight 09s or Enlisted to Officer?

                  Sir,

                  I obtained my commission after 12 years of NCO service, and this diatribe, albiet long winded, couldn't be better said! Excellent insight and advise.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Straight 09s or Enlisted to Officer?

                    Originally posted by mheathershaw View Post
                    In your experience, have you noticed a distinct difference between officers that are straight out of college/OCS (who enlisted 09s) and officers that have spent some time on the enlisted side? I'm specifically talking about: ability to lead effectively, decision making, professionalism, etc...

                    Your thoughts?
                    I'm a 09S too and from my experience being prior service I wouldn't waste my time going enlisted at all. The only reason why I went enlisted is because I wasn't close to being finished with college yet, but I went to school and finish my degree during my enlistment. Don't waste time going enlisted if you can help it. Your throwing away money for experience your going to get anyway plus you won't have to unlearn how to be enlisted like i'm going to have to.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Straight 09s or Enlisted to Officer?

                      You should consider the effect of enlisted to officer would have on your life outside the guard. Remember your part time, basic then ocs and bolc is a long time away from your job and family. If you can minimize that it's in your best interest to be just an officer. Regarding the there is no such thing as Nco business that's kind of laughable.

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