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  • #31
    Re: E3 -> E4 Promotion Waiver Questions

    You can use a 4187, but you can also just use the pre-printed monthly promotion list for E-4 & below. Your readiness should be squaring that away & your 1SG should be telling you who does or does not need to move up. Your readiness & Bn S1 NCOIC can take care of the UMR issues on your guidance, but you do need to be paying attention. Those things get screwed up real fast in ways that take years to fix ways if you aren't careful.

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    • #32
      Re: E3 -> E4 Promotion Waiver Questions

      Yes your time in service starts the day you left for bootcamp, not when you swore in.

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      • #33
        Re: E3 -> E4 Promotion Waiver Questions

        Originally posted by Deborah Houston View Post
        Yes your time in service starts the day you left for bootcamp, not when you swore in.
        Just wondering where this comes from, as I read AR 600-8-19

        7–7. Computation of time in grade, time in service, and cumulative enlisted service
        a. TIMIG is computed from the Soldier’s DOR in the current grade.
        b. TIS is computed from the Soldier’s PEBD. Include all service for pay computed under DOD 7000.14–R, volume
        7A, chapter 1. TIS is computed for NPS personnel who entered the ARNGUS under the ACASP or who were
        promoted under section III from PEBD. The first advancement or promotion after completion of IET is computed from
        the Soldiers PEBD.

        It doesn't mention BASD, it speaks about PEBD. I like to think that I can read and understand regs, so I just wonder where the BASD enters the equation. Probably in some other Directive that I don't know about. Just wanted to know where/what it is.

        One other thought I just had, if TIS starts at BASD (time you left for BCT) than TIMIG can be greater than TIS if you had rank before you went to Basic (such as during RSP)?
        Last edited by PALINATHAS; April 15th, 2013, 11:28 PM. Reason: More thoughts, avoiding double posting

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        • #34
          Re: E3 -> E4 Promotion Waiver Questions

          Originally posted by Deborah Houston View Post
          Yes your time in service starts the day you left for bootcamp, not when you swore in.
          I find it strange that a person would open a account using their name to revive an old thread and provide an incorrect response.

          Originally posted by PALINATHAS View Post
          Just wondering where this comes from, as I read AR 600-8-19

          7–7. Computation of time in grade, time in service, and cumulative enlisted service
          a. TIMIG is computed from the Soldier’s DOR in the current grade.
          b. TIS is computed from the Soldier’s PEBD. Include all service for pay computed under DOD 7000.14–R, volume
          7A, chapter 1. TIS is computed for NPS personnel who entered the ARNGUS under the ACASP or who were
          promoted under section III from PEBD. The first advancement or promotion after completion of IET is computed from
          the Soldiers PEBD.

          It doesn't mention BASD, it speaks about PEBD. I like to think that I can read and understand regs, so I just wonder where the BASD enters the equation. Probably in some other Directive that I don't know about. Just wanted to know where/what it is.

          One other thought I just had, if TIS starts at BASD (time you left for BCT) than TIMIG can be greater than TIS if you had rank before you went to Basic (such as during RSP)?
          BASD only refers to Soldiers who are on active-duty, so PEBD depending on the Soldier's service is the proper "field" for determining time in service. For many Soldiers, PEBD equals BASD so that is why there may lie confusion. Also, a break-in service will re-adjust the PEBD.

          My PEBD goes back to Jan 1983 but now that is listed as my DIEMS. My BASD was re-adjusted so it will determine when I have 20 qualifying years of active service.

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          • #35
            Re: E3 -> E4 Promotion Waiver Questions

            Originally posted by Chief Kemosabe View Post
            I find it strange that a person would open a account using their name to revive an old thread and provide an incorrect response.

            I have been hearing the above - that TIS starts the day I shipped to BCT and not the day I swore in, or the first RSP I attended, ever since I went to BCT. I just wonder where it is written, since I interpret what seems to be a clear contradiction to that in the regs.

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            • #36
              Re: E3 -> E4 Promotion Waiver Questions

              I guess DEP is different from RSP and your cadre and ERB should clear it up.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: E3 -> E4 Promotion Waiver Questions

                AR 600-8-19
                2–2. General
                a. Soldiers must be in a promotable status on the effective date of promotion.
                b. The promotion authority or a higher headquarters may determine a Soldier’s eligibility to be promoted with a
                retroactive DOR when the Soldier’s promotion was delayed due to administrative error. Percentage limitations outlined
                in this chapter apply retroactively.
                c. CDRs may promote Soldiers with a waiver provided they have promotion capability within the percentage waiver
                restriction as outlined in paragraph 2–5, below.
                d. BASD will be used to determine TIS. Date of entry on initial entry training (IET) will be used for USAR. For
                Army National Guard of the United States (ARNGUS), use PEBD or date or original entry on IET to determine TIS
                for advancement to PV2 and higher grades for non-prior service (NPS) Soldiers. For personnel support Soldiers,
                compute from date of original enlistment into military service other than the Delayed Entry Program (DEP) of an
                active component (AC) of the U.S. Armed Forces provided there was no break in military service. This affects general
                eligibility for Soldiers advanced per paragraphs 7–21 and 7–22, of this regulation. Soldiers advanced after enlistment,
                but prior to IET, will use the BASD to compute the TIS requirements for the next advancement.
                b. Promotions to PV2, PFC, and SPC will be made automatically by the total Army personnel data base for posting
                to the automated personnel file and the master military pay file. ARNG and USAR Soldiers on IADT will not be
                promoted to SPC unless concurrence is obtained from the Soldier’s RC unit. DA Form 4187 will be used for all USAR
                Soldiers and all ARNGUS Soldiers awaiting IET (special advancements and split training option-phase II) and all
                advancements for Soldiers in a Title 10 status (including mobilization). DA Form 4187 will not be used for automatic
                advancements.
                c. Eligibility criteria for automatic promotion to PV2, PFC, and SPC will be as follows:
                (1) The promotion to PV2 requirement is 6 months TIS.
                (2) The promotion to PFC requirements are 12 months TIS and 4 months TIMIG.
                (3) The promotion to SPC requirements are 24 months TIS and 6 months TIMIG.
                (4) Soldiers must not be flagged or barred from reenlistment.
                (5) Any Soldier reduced must be fully qualified (without waiver) for promotion to the next higher grade.
                d. If a unit CDR elects not to recommend a Soldier for promotion on the automatic promotion date, then a DA Form
                4187 denying the promotion will be submitted not later than the 20th day of the month preceeding the month of
                automatic promotion.
                e. The DA Form 4187 denyi

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                • #38
                  Re: E3 -> E4 Promotion Waiver Questions

                  Ah, there's where BASD enters the equation. I had skipped straight to the paragraphs dealing with the Guard.

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