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  • #16
    I am in HR as well. I work for a .com company that only take in Ex-military,National Guard,Reserves, and thier families help them find a job.
    Is that discrimination?? You and I think it is not but others would think so.

    I guess every recruiter in the US Military broke the law by these web-sites views.

    I put down on my resume what is relevant for the job.Yes I have my active duty time and my guard time on my resume.That would not matter.

    What we are talking about is how you would lie on a app.So, If you were hired for a job that sometimes work weekends.This weekend fell on drill weekend.Are you going to tell your employer I got drill??? Or AT how are you going to get 2-3 weeks off if you just started at this job you aren't going to have vactation time or one week. Would you just not show up to work???

    You lied the employer.That could be termination of employment.
    You can say no about this.If some one did that to me (which it has anothter story) you have told me you can not be trusted. I would more and less fire you. I would be covered.You can call USERRA but my bases of temination would be on the app.

    Do you think that fair that USERRA has no control over Embassies or Native American reservations?

    I understand that some companies do not like the fact that we as a group are in the military.Yes they will hire us thinking that they can handle us being away for that weekend or AT.

    Then it's hard for them.

    tgpii Im me and I'll get you started with a packet. Our employer pool understand our continuing service.
    Last edited by Recruiter yosis; January 9th, 2009, 10:51 AM.

    Comment


    • #17
      [QUOTE=Recruiter yosis]I am in HR as well. I work for a .com company that only take in Ex-military,National Guard,Reserves, and thier families help them find a job.
      Is that discrimination?? You and I think it is not but others would think so.

      I guess every recruiter in the US Military broke the law by these web-sites views.

      I put down on my resume what is relevant for the job.Yes I have my active duty time and my guard time on my resume.That would not matter.

      What we are talking about is how you would lie on a app.So, If you were hired for a job that sometimes work weekends.This weekend fell on drill weekend.Are you going to tell your employer I got drill??? Or AT how are you going to get 2-3 weeks off if you just started at this job you aren't going to have vactation time or one week. Would you just not show up to work???

      You lied the employer.That could be termination of employment.
      You can say no about this.If some one did that to me (which it has anothter story) you have told me you can not be trusted. I would more and less fire you. I would be covered.You can call USERRA but my bases of temination would be on the app.

      Do you think that fair that USERRA has no control over Embassies or Native American reservations?

      I understand that some companies do not like the fact that we as a group are in the military.Yes they will hire us thinking that they can handle us being away for that weekend or AT.

      Then it's hard for them.

      tgpii Im me and I'll get you started with a packet. Our employer pool understand our continuing service.[/QUOTE]


      In your first question, if you are sending away qualified non-military applicants, it's technically discrimination. Of course (and here's where philosophy gets involved), I think that those laws hinder the liberty of employers - in this case, your company's desire to assist military job seekers. At the same time, if you choose to exclusively hire military job seekers, you do so with the understanding that a qualified non-military job seeker could work for your competitor. But, that's not what the issue is...

      Assuming that we're putting philosophy on the back burner (the notion of whether or not discrimination laws should even be in place)...

      If someone feels that they are being discriminated against based on their service and it's illegal for an employer to ask directly about said service, there is nothing wrong with not disclosing the information... both in my personal opinion and legally.

      If an employer wouldn't hire a Jew, you don't disclose it and then show up to work wearing a yarmulke, he might be angry in his office, but he can't do anything about it. You skirted his discrimination and, as long as you fulfill your job properly and operate with the understanding that you're under a microscope, at least you're employed... which seems to remedy the issue (unemployment) of the original poster.

      Disclaimer: I would disclose my service when I begin looking for a job again, but if I noticed that it was resulting in a bunch of "no" replies, I'd modify my approach.

      Comment


      • #18
        [QUOTE=Recruiter yosis]So, If you were hired for a job that sometimes work weekends.This weekend fell on drill weekend.Are you going to tell your employer I got drill??? Or AT how are you going to get 2-3 weeks off if you just started at this job you aren't going to have vactation time or one week. Would you just not show up to work???[/QUOTE]

        When your first Guard/employer conflict arose, you would disclose it - "I have drill this weekend" or "I have training these two weeks."

        If they are angry, you simply say, "I didn't think that it was an important detail" or "military service is protected by law and can't be used in a decision for a hiring process, so I didn't want to put you in a difficult situation by disclosing it."

        If they then fire you, well, you have options.

        Comment


        • #19
          [QUOTE=chd]When your first Guard/employer conflict arose, you would disclose it - "I have drill this weekend" or "I have training these two weeks."

          If they are angry, you simply say, "I didn't think that it was an important detail" or "military service is protected by law and can't be used in a decision for a hiring process, so I didn't want to put you in a difficult situation by disclosing it."

          If they then fire you, well, you have options.[/QUOTE]

          So you don't disclose your military service to your employer. Where are your army values?

          Loyalty
          Duty
          Respect
          Self-less service
          Honor
          Integrity
          Personal courage

          You should RESPECT your future employer enough to let them know that you will be gone for drill weekends, active training for 2 weeks, and there is always a chance of deployment.

          You should have enough HONOR to be willing to tell the truth.

          You should have enough INTEGRITY to be willing to disclose it to your employer, whether you are legally obligated to or not, because it is the right thing to do.

          And you should make this decision with PERSONAL COURAGE even if it means facing discrimination in the workplace.

          Comment


          • #20
            [QUOTE=plano2001]So you don't disclose your military service to your employer. Where are your army values?

            Loyalty
            Duty
            Respect
            Self-less service
            Honor
            Integrity
            Personal courage

            You should RESPECT your future employer enough to let them know that you will be gone for drill weekends, active training for 2 weeks, and there is always a chance of deployment.

            You should have enough HONOR to be willing to tell the truth.

            You should have enough INTEGRITY to be willing to disclose it to your employer, whether you are legally obligated to or not, because it is the right thing to do.

            And you should make this decision with PERSONAL COURAGE even if it means facing discrimination in the workplace.[/QUOTE]


            That's very comforting to someone who can't shelter, feed or clothe their children because they are unemployed due to their service as a Guard member and employers' unwillingness to hire them.

            There's two parts to the phrase "citizen soldier" and even Uncle Sam himself wouldn't want one to suffer at the expense of the other.

            Comment


            • #21
              Let me add (again) that I suggest this alternative as a last resort. That is, after getting rejected time and time again based solely on your mention of Guard status.

              Comment


              • #22
                [QUOTE=chd]That's very comforting to someone who can't shelter, feed or clothe their children because they are unemployed due to their service as a Guard member and employers' unwillingness to hire them.

                There's two parts to the phrase "citizen soldier" and even Uncle Sam himself wouldn't want one to suffer at the expense of the other.[/QUOTE]

                I've been unemployed before, for months. I know what that is like, from very personal experience. Not able to get an interview, going through my savings to pay for rent, gas, food. Turning off the phone, internet, TV to save money and extend my savings.

                My oldest brother has been unemployed for about 8 months. His last 2 jobs both laid him off after a couple of weeks. He is married and has 2 kids.

                This is without being a National Guard member.

                People get laid off/fired/not hired for many reasons. But have enough integrity to be upfront with the person who will be signing your paychecks. If they won't hire you for serving your country, do you think they will think twice about finding a reason to fire you (especially if you work in a right-to-work state where no reason is needed)?

                Comment


                • #23
                  [QUOTE=plano2001]I've been unemployed before, for months. I know what that is like, from very personal experience. Not able to get an interview, going through my savings to pay for rent, gas, food. Turning off the phone, internet, TV to save money and extend my savings.

                  My oldest brother has been unemployed for about 8 months. His last 2 jobs both laid him off after a couple of weeks. He is married and has 2 kids.

                  This is without being a National Guard member.

                  People get laid off/fired/not hired for many reasons. But have enough integrity to be upfront with the person who will be signing your paychecks. If they won't hire you for serving your country, do you think they will think twice about finding a reason to fire you (especially if you work in a right-to-work state where no reason is needed)?[/QUOTE]

                  I don't disagree with any of that.

                  I'm just presenting an alternative viewpoint/option.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    [QUOTE=chd]I don't disagree with any of that.

                    I'm just presenting an alternative viewpoint/option.[/QUOTE]

                    And I'm presenting mine. :)

                    Sure would be nice though if we lived in a world where this was completely a non-issue.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      [QUOTE=chd]When your first Guard/employer conflict arose, you would disclose it - "I have drill this weekend" or "I have training these two weeks."

                      If they are angry, you simply say, "I didn't think that it was an important detail" or "military service is protected by law and can't be used in a decision for a hiring process, so I didn't want to put you in a difficult situation by disclosing it."

                      If they then fire you, well, you have options.[/QUOTE]


                      So me where In the USERRA guidelines that I can not fire you because you lied on your app??? You won't.

                      Basically what you are trying to say If a felon lied on a app he wouldnt be let go or fired?(Extreme Case)

                      You should never modify just to get a job. For example maybe your resume wasn't written right or have been someone was more qualified than you.
                      You can't blame the Army for your downfall or mistake.

                      [QUOTE=chd] If an employer wouldn't hire a Jew, you don't disclose it and then show up to work wearing a yarmulke, he might be angry in his office, but he can't do anything about it. You skirted his discrimination and, as long as you fulfill your job properly and operate with the understanding that you're under a microscope, at least you're employed... which seems to remedy the issue (unemployment) of the original poster.[/QUOTE]

                      One, I hire off of two things talent and qualifications.If that person was wearing a Yarmulke so be it.

                      Myself I have left arm sleeved out , a back piece, and 1/4 sleeve on my right arm. All from my faith.

                      Also, I am proud of my Kazakh/Cossack heritage .My hair cut is a traditional Kazakh (hair is shaved except for the bangs).

                      My wife is Russian. I know about discrimination too.

                      For my wife, she lives in the world of discrimination every day.
                      She can't go to some military posts even that she is a citizen of the US also has Dep. ID card .

                      Because of a reg. from 1970's will not allow her there.
                      People think of her as a communist because of where she is born if she goes to an interview.

                      One time we had the police over here for a party out of hand that was next door.After the police was here Immigration units came out to give her the treatment.

                      I know I went off topic there but discrimination is something that really pulls me.

                      I told ol boy to IM me to get it started.
                      Haven't got anything from him yet
                      Sorry I can not help someone if they don't reply.
                      Last edited by Recruiter yosis; January 9th, 2009, 03:55 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        [QUOTE=Recruiter yosis]So me where In the USERRA guidelines that I can not fire you because you lied on your app??? You won't.

                        Basically what you are trying to say If a felon lied on a app he wouldnt be let go or fired?(Extreme Case)

                        You should never modify just to get a job. For example maybe your resume wasn't written right or have been someone was more qualified than you.
                        You can't blame the Army for your downfall or mistake.
                        [/QUOTE]


                        Who is lying?

                        Heck, I have ten different versions of my resume that highlight different courses that I have taken, accomplishments at work, etc. I used one for Graduate School and another for an engineering position.

                        BY LAW, an employer CANNOT EVEN ASK YOU if you are in the Guard or a Reservist. Same rules apply to age, gender, marital status, religion, race, etc.

                        Of course, it's your CHOICE to volunteer that information, but I see no reason why if you feel that it would negatively hurt your chances for employment.

                        If they ask if you would have any problems working weekends, you can say "no, I don't foresee any problems." And you'd be telling the truth - why would a drill be a "problem?"

                        Of course, living the Army Values, showing your service with pride, etc. is completely different, but legally and I'd say ethically, you do not have to disclose it.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          [QUOTE=Recruiter yosis]
                          One, I hire off of two things talent and qualifications.[/QUOTE]

                          Right, so if someone has both, why risk their chance with superfluous information, irrelevant to the hiring process?

                          Criminal record = relevant. Age, ***, race, religion, military service, marital status = irrelevant.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I am m day national guard but trying to get an AGR slot, I wanted to go active but my

                            I am m day national guard but trying to get an AGR slot, I wanted to go active but my unit refused to release me. Any advice?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              yeah I have got some advice.

                              STOP WHINING ON HERE.

                              Seriously, you've posted to same crap on the message boards over and over. GO GET A JOB. or... GO TO COLLEGE? You should come out with an extra amount of money each month if youre going to college, I know every m day soldier in my area that goes full time to college ends up with money.

                              Youre not going to get very far in life, let alone in the army without being able to go out and get what you need.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                He already has a degree. Maybe it's time for a master's.

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