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Why Punish Overweight Troops?

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  • #16
    Re: Why Punish Overweight Troops?

    Viceroy you sound like you have a serious complex about this... so my advice to you - stop whining and sniveling.

    You use the word "obviously" a lot... and well obviously no one here has seen a photo of you, or perhaps met you, so obviously noone knows if you are indeed more muscle than fat. You say that you are shedding "more" fat and gaining muscle - so that means you have room for, and areas that need, improvement. I am assuming that the guy who smoked the APFT did so in all events... so perhaps you and he have some training tips you could share (for him gaining muscle mass, and for you improving where you need it (you did not state you smoke an APFT, so again I think I can safely assume you have need for some improvement here as well).

    I work with a Ranger Sniper who is 6.0' give or take, with legs like darts (I always tell him if it were not for those boat props he calls feet he could never walk in the sand) and he is the toughest mofo I know (forgive the rhyme, I do it all the time) and is second to few, if any, when it comes to shooting and combatives... let alone carrying equipment... Every soldier has strengths and weaknesses - working as a team it is important to balance out where one is weak and another strong, to fill the gaps where you can, and allow the others to do the same where you fall short.

    You complain about being assigned a 249... wow... you must not be Infantry... I s'pose the phrase "Rock and Roll" does not mean anything to you other than 1950's music. The 2 crew served weapons are some of the most "hooah" weapons on the battlefield, and where most want to carry massive firepower, you look at it as a form of pun-ishment. Perhaps the NCO who assigned you the weapon did so with a look of confidence that he knew you could do it, and use that weapon well (especially if he was from the SF, because they are not going to give important tasks or weapons to those who they consider less than capable, and normally are very serious in such matters) so instead of taking the compliment, you took it negatively...

    As far as the fence you are on, stay there... you are the last person that needs to be decideing the future of anyone... how can someone have a "solid body: but not be in the best of shape? Was he solid fat without any ripples, but shaped like a balloon animal, could do 2 push-ups out of 3??? You definately need experience and developement as a soldier... if you do not think you are getting enough attention in this area then you need to talk with your leadership (Team and Squad) about getting some more developmental tasks and training - and map out a plan for your career in your MOS and unit.

    If a potential soldier is at MEPS and getting turned away for not meting the basic H/W requirements to join/enlist - then the system is working if he is being turned away repeatedly. As everyone who is at MEPS seesm to have "Special Forces" on thier dream list of things they want to impress people about when they open thier pie-holes, that is nothing new - reality eventually sets in - and either they have a epiphany and change thier world to attain such a daunting goal, or they remain the same as time goes on, and always talk about it to get attention. You on the other hand seem to worry more about everyone else than yourself... perhaps something you also need to work on; ask yourself, "What can I do to improve the Team?" - "What can I do to improve myself in both knowledge, aptitude, ability, and readiness?"

    In regards to NCO's spending time with troops or with recruits (and potential recruits) that is what we do... We Lead, Train, and Develop - we provide Purpose, Motivation, and Direction... And yes there are some that fall short on that... If you think this is all talk, then you come work for me (PM me for my contact info if you really want to try) however if we (NCO's) identify something, then it is never time wasted trying to develop that person into a soldier, or a soldier into a leader... It is the core of what we do, but I do understand why you have yet to understand that...

    So, deal with whatever it is and quit taking it so personnaly, and drive on...
    Last edited by LRSU_Dog; February 8th, 2011, 12:45 PM.

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    • #17
      Re: Why Punish Overweight Troops?

      Actually, I am 11Bravo. I took the Sarge calling me out as a shoe-in candidate for a 249 as a compliment (stuck my chest out like a State Fair blue ribbon-winning rooster). I was the only one he asked to strip down a 249 (If I'm bragging too much I know y'all will tell me, sorry) especially considering he was Special Forces and was going back to Afghanistan next month. If I had to go overseas and see some action I sincerely would want to have the heaviest weapon I could carry. I would prefer the 500 round barrel over the banana clip too, thank you.

      My description comes as a result of seeing these guys with nothing on but boxers. The guy with the "solid" body was stocky i.e. no rolls of fat anywhere. He had decent muscle tone but he could have stood to lose about 15 more pounds.

      As far as my body/weight is concerned, I won't lie. at 5'8" 218lbs I could stand to lose about 18 pounds myself. I've got small love handles but every muscle group on my body is defined. I've been there before--I can drop all the way down to 195 before I start noticing a decline in bench/squat/deadlift performance. I've got a picture of myself at semi-pro weighing in at 215lbs. Nothing special but I'm far from being a Pillsbury doughboy.

      The Pillsbury doughboys both had camel pack-sized cottage cheese overflowing the waistline of their boxers. The Special Forces wannabe had breasts hanging off of his back that were just as big as the breasts hanging off of his chest. No exaggeration in description. I'm just calling it how I saw it.

      There's a guy in my detachment that said he weighed in at 250lbs when he enlisted. He was just awarded for weighing in at 196lbs the other day. If you saw that guy you could see the determination in his face and the way he moved. But the two guys I saw that were with me at MEPS were strictly sheeyit talkers.

      I really don't have any problems with my military experience but I do like to be very descriptive when I post.
      Last edited by VICEROY06; February 8th, 2011, 01:18 PM.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Why Punish Overweight Troops?

        Originally posted by VICEROY06 View Post
        Actually, I am 11Bravo. I took the Sarge...
        Actually, there is no military rank or title of "sarge" - since you are a soldier and not a civilian, you should correct that, and use the correct address for the rank.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Why Punish Overweight Troops?

          You don't understand, Viceroy. You are not getting IDF from people who disagree with your position; it comes from the way you present it. Take a breathe and think about what you're going to say. The way you come off can mean the difference between a respectable arguement and one that digs you deeper and deeper.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Why Punish Overweight Troops?

            Originally posted by LRSU_Dog View Post
            Actually, there is no military rank or title of "sarge" - since you are a soldier and not a civilian, you should correct that, and use the correct address for the rank.
            gee, iono. If HT/WGHT standards were left up to me you'd have a lot less fat boys wasting state/federal time and money training, feeding, and clothing them. We also wouldn't have all these issues with over strength either.

            At least with the skinny long distance runners you can bulk them up over time. But the blimps just get in the way. And I'm not referring to the guys that come in overweight and slim down. I'm talking about the fat boys that come in and make stupid statements like "I hate running" or "I can't find the time to get in the gym" yet they have fall TV Guide and every cheat code for every game system memorized.

            I'll be the first to admit I'm no Arnold Swarzenegger but I won't giggle if you poke me in the stomach with your finger either.

            Pain just makes me work harder. That should be my tag.

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            • #21
              Re: Why Punish Overweight Troops?

              The bottom line you shouldn't discriminate based on a person's weight.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Why Punish Overweight Troops?

                I have my own opinions on being overweight in the military, but that's a different story. A guy in my platoon is overweight, but I've deployed with him and he is one of the best soldiers we have. He's incredibly knowledgeable, proficient on every weapon system we have, and can ruck for days. He has a lot of trouble passing his PT test, but does that make him a bad soldier? No. He proves himself in other areas and I would never trade him for someone of a different stature with less knowledge and ability than him. Think twice before judging someone based on their appearance and/or weight.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Why Punish Overweight Troops?

                  Originally posted by Chaplain4me View Post
                  The bottom line you shouldn't discriminate based on a person's weight.
                  Fat people on planes that take up 2 seats....SHOULD have to pay for 2 seats.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Why Punish Overweight Troops?

                    Originally posted by Chaplain4me View Post
                    The bottom line you shouldn't discriminate based on a person's weight.
                    Yes you should. The Army has height and weight standards(although I really think they need to be revised) that dictate if a person is fit to serve or not. If they don't meet the requirements you don't get into the Army. If you can't stay within the parameters then you get booted out. I will be the first person to bring scrutiny and call for revision on the height and weight standards but regulations are regulations and until they change we have to enforce them.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Why Punish Overweight Troops?

                      Federal employment laws state you cannot discriminate. Think about it, the door has been opened.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Why Punish Overweight Troops?

                        Originally posted by Chaplain4me View Post
                        Federal employment laws state you cannot discriminate. Think about it, the door has been opened.
                        Can I get a witness??? The DOD reserves the right to discriminate their Chappy. Just because a person is a phat arse; Doesn't mean they get kicked out right away. They give them several opportunities (flagged) to square themselves away. Stevelord yes airlines should charge a "little extra" not two tickets. I vote to charge extra for the crying/nagging children and the parents that can't control them. I flew from Okinawa round trip to Ohio with two young ones twice 1986 and 1994. I did slip some elixir (adult beverage) for that long ride...lol no side effects either.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Why Punish Overweight Troops?

                          Few law suits?

                          What next, we're going to let people with colorblindness in? What about asthma?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Why Punish Overweight Troops?

                            Ok there is a difference between discrimination and "employment" standards. Since the military (at both Federal and State levels) has to comply with labor laws to Safety compliance (OSHA) the fact that they (the Military) have set minimum requirements to be considered able to do a Military job is not discrimination at all:

                            http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/practices/i...ght_weight.cfm

                            These standards, as spelled out in the various regulations, do not supercede any law or statute - and since all soldiers, regardless of MOS can be called upon to do the basic job of a soldier, the requirements reflect that. There are various MOS's that require certain aspects that other jobs do not - such as lifting heavy weight, or carrying heavy weight long distances, and although how tall you are and how much you weigh may, or may not, impact that, it is a decision that to ensure the best possible scenario for mission completion that soldiers meet certain criteria for enlistment and acceptance into a slot for an MOS.

                            This does not mean an overweight soldier is bad, and cannot do a job - but it does mean that (as mentioned in an earlier post) that they need to alter thier situation to meet retention or enlistment standards. To the contrary of those who would point fingers and hand out discharge paperwork, it is more important to help get those soldiers into standard and ensure thier retention.

                            What next, lawsuits so that people with disabilities or metal pins keeping parts of thier bodies attached can sue to become an Infantryman??? I am sure it sux to be in an overweight status, but unless this is something that is genetically impossible to manange, control, or reverse - then a soldier, any soldier, has the inherant responsibility to do all that he or she can to meet the minimum or maximum req's for H/W. If it does fall into the genetic never going to change, may get worse catagory, then alternate employment may be the only answer. It is easier to prove the H/W issues can affect performance and have collateral health issues compounded than it would be to prove discrimination. The better attack route would be to hammer your congressman/woman on the subject...

                            Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, when they remove everything but the doubt is when they need to choose something else. Nothing in life is easy, and I am sure meeting H/W for some is a harder, more long term task, than for others - but (as also mentioned in a previous post) until the standards are altered or revised it is what we have, and the standards we must meet.
                            Last edited by LRSU_Dog; February 8th, 2011, 08:06 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Why Punish Overweight Troops?

                              Originally posted by Teuvil View Post
                              Few law suits?

                              What next, we're going to let people with colorblindness in? What about asthma?
                              could happen. Yep.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Why Punish Overweight Troops?

                                Originally posted by LRSU_Dog View Post
                                Ok there is a difference between discrimination and "employment" standards. Since the military (at both Federal and State levels) has to comply with labor laws to Safety compliance (OSHA) the fact that they (the Military) have set minimum requirements to be considered able to do a Military job is not discrimination at all:

                                http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/practices/i...ght_weight.cfm

                                These standards, as spelled out in the various regulations, do not supercede any law or statute - and since all soldiers, regardless of MOS can be called upon to do the basic job of a soldier, the requirements reflect that. There are various MOS's that require certain aspects that other jobs do not - such as lifting heavy weight, or carrying heavy weight long distances, and although how tall you are and how much you weigh may, or may not, impact that, it is a decision that to ensure the best possible scenario for mission completion that soldiers meet certain criteria for enlistment and acceptance into a slot for an MOS.

                                This does not mean an overweight soldier is bad, and cannot do a job - but it does mean that (as mentioned in an earlier post) that they need to alter thier situation to meet retention or enlistment standards. To the contrary of those who would point fingers and hand out discharge paperwork, it is more important to help get those soldiers into standard and ensure thier retention.

                                What next, lawsuits so that people with disabilities or metal pins keeping parts of thier bodies attached can sue to become an Infantryman??? I am sure it sux to be in an overweight status, but unless this is something that is genetically impossible to manange, control, or reverse - then a soldier, any soldier, has the inherant responsibility to do all that he or she can to meet the minimum or maximum req's for H/W. If it does fall into the genetic never going to change, may get worse catagory, then alternate employment may be the only answer. It is easier to prove the H/W issues can affect performance and have collateral health issues compounded than it would be to prove discrimination. The better attack route would be to hammer your congressman/woman on the subject...

                                Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, when they remove everything but the doubt is when they need to choose something else. Nothing in life is easy, and I am sure meeting H/W for some is a harder, more long term task, than for others - but (as also mentioned in a previous post) until the standards are altered or revised it is what we have, and the standards we must meet.
                                Females are about to become Infantrymen, so why not? You guys don't watch the news do you.

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