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  • #16
    Re: Special Schools, Cant due to funding!?!?

    Originally posted by Mr_Loki View Post
    You see, Wal-Mart decides how much they want to give to the US Government. Then, Wal-Mart employees create a flow chart on where the money goes.
    In a nutshell, yes. But that's almost like the CliffNotes version of a CliffNotes.

    After talking to a friend who works for my Congressman briefly, it's very complex.

    1. Generally, you don't really understand how this works until you're an O-6. You may begin to understand how it works as an O-5, but chances are it's dealt with at a level that is much higher, and even they don't get it right.
    2. The reason it's complex is because being accountable for it makes it complex.
    3. You have to be familiar with the idea of "fund sites".
    4. The comptroller understands the process the best.
    5. More often it isn't a "lack of funding", it's simply that the budgeting wasn't perfect.

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    • #17
      Re: Special Schools, Cant due to funding!?!?

      You can always go to www.g8.army.mil or see if your training NCO can educate you on the fund cite codes on the 1610 which units share those pools.

      http://www.defensetravel.dod.mil/Tra.../DTA_App_R.pdf


      http://guidebook.dcma.mil/16/cancfund.ppt
      Last edited by Chief Kemosabe; November 17th, 2011, 06:35 PM.

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      • #18
        Re: Special Schools, Cant due to funding!?!?

        Originally posted by Polo08816 View Post
        1. Generally, you don't really understand how this works until you're an O-6. You may begin to understand how it works as an O-5, but chances are it's dealt with at a level that is much higher, and even they don't get it right.

        It's not as complex as you think but it's very detail driven. Most TPU Officers don't bother to learn it and leave it to full time staff or they don't pay attention to detail. For instance my first company command, a tasker came down asking how many ADA's did I want for the next FY. Didn't really pay attention and it bit me latter. This FY, I really paid attention to my budget request and went through the entire YTC to make sure I had asked for resources for every event.

        At the O-6 level is where the commander really has influence on where the money goes. There's also other driving factors such as AFROGEN cycle, type of unit, something be specifically funded by Big Army (ie equipment fielding)


        3. You have to be familiar with the idea of "fund sites".

        I won't say you have to be familiar with funds sites as much as you have to be familiar with how money moves bewteen fund sites and the legal limitions of them.

        5. More often it isn't a "lack of funding", it's simply that the budgeting wasn't perfect.

        And there's some truth in that, see above.
        With schools, there is also the issue of quotas. Does the state have the quota to send you to school? A great example is OBC for officers, espcially avaition. Keep in mind when you're wanting to go to Mall Nija school, does your unit have all of the CLS's, UPL's, HAZMAT, Field Sanitation certified Soldiers? The unit needs to fill the basics first before sending a Soldier to a school that won't help them run a range or go to the field.

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        • #19
          Re: Special Schools, Cant due to funding!?!?

          Originally posted by RedLeg View Post
          With schools, there is also the issue of quotas. Does the state have the quota to send you to school? A great example is OBC for officers, espcially avaition. Keep in mind when you're wanting to go to Mall Nija school, does your unit have all of the CLS's, UPL's, HAZMAT, Field Sanitation certified Soldiers? The unit needs to fill the basics first before sending a Soldier to a school that won't help them run a range or go to the field.
          Thanks for the explanation and providing more insight into the subject matter.

          It's been a busy week or two and I was at a 1SG's retirement last night with the current CDR and former CDR. Almost all the discussions revolved around funding and it's pretty bad this year:

          -NTC rotation was canceled due to funding
          -JRTC rotation replaced NTC rotation but it is likely to be canceled due to funding

          -AT to Ft. Drum is questionable this year. As it stands we have at most 19 of 80+ soldiers that "may" be going because the rest either went to Germany this FY or are going to Botswana so the state is not going to fund another AT for the soldier.

          -Of those 19, they have to figure out who to send to NCOES instead of AT and we're not even sure if they have the funding to send them to NCOES.

          CDR: "Unfortunately, we have a situation of where the soldier has to decide either to screw the unit or screw his career. Under the circumstances, I would screw the unit instead of the career."

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          • #20
            Re: Special Schools, Cant due to funding!?!?

            Originally posted by Polo08816 View Post
            Thanks for the explanation and providing more insight into the subject matter.

            It's been a busy week or two and I was at a 1SG's retirement last night with the current CDR and former CDR. Almost all the discussions revolved around funding and it's pretty bad this year:

            -NTC rotation was canceled due to funding
            -JRTC rotation replaced NTC rotation but it is likely to be canceled due to funding

            -AT to Ft. Drum is questionable this year. As it stands we have at most 19 of 80+ soldiers that "may" be going because the rest either went to Germany this FY or are going to Botswana so the state is not going to fund another AT for the soldier.

            -Of those 19, they have to figure out who to send to NCOES instead of AT and we're not even sure if they have the funding to send them to NCOES.

            CDR: "Unfortunately, we have a situation of where the soldier has to decide either to screw the unit or screw his career. Under the circumstances, I would screw the unit instead of the career."
            I was just wondering, is it possible for Soldiers in the Guard to provide their own funding for schools?

            I've noticed a local community college offers NREMT-First Responder (40-Hour) and Combat Life Saver, would taking both cross over to the Army? Soldiers from Ft. Lewis go to the CLS class and First Responder all the time. (They drive the two+ hours from Ft. Lewis to take them)???

            Also, if a Soldier is say a 12Kilo (Army Plumber), would it be possible to get certified as a Unit Armorer (additional weapons training?) and if so, how long would one have to remain in the billet?

            If a Soldier is qualified as a 12K, could he go through the 1 week long 12R course (reserve school) and stay as 12K Primary MOS but get 12R as an SMOS? If funding was an issue, could the individual Soldier provide partial or full funding to do it?

            Schools I'd be more interested in are Engineering MOS Schools. 12W, R, Y, N, B, V, C, etc.

            As far as non-MOS related schools, just Bradley Qualification, and qualifications for operating military vehicles the WAARNG uses. And weapons qualifications. (M4, M249, M240B, M9, M203, M320, Mk. 19 etc. Not familiarity training, actual qualifications traning) I could care less of other schools unless it would make me more rounded in Basic Soldiering Skills or more educated/diverse in Engineering Fields. (no disrespect to anyone)

            So if, one stays within the unit/fields etc. Can they fund their own training if the unit doesn't have enough?

            Reason I'm asking this, is because military training and qualifications/certifications, can strongly support civilian-side careers. As well as their military careers. Allowing Soldiers to Voluntarily, even partially fund some of their training schools, would be highly beneficial to both parties depending on the class/school.
            Last edited by FutureEngineer; April 4th, 2012, 06:33 PM.

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            • #21
              Re: Special Schools, Cant due to funding!?!?

              No, soldiers can't fund their own military training

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              • #22
                Re: Special Schools, Cant due to funding!?!?

                Originally posted by FutureEngineer View Post
                I was just wondering, is it possible for Soldiers in the Guard to provide their own funding for schools?

                I've noticed a local community college offers NREMT-First Responder (40-Hour) and Combat Life Saver, would taking both cross over to the Army? Soldiers from Ft. Lewis go to the CLS class and First Responder all the time. (They drive the two+ hours from Ft. Lewis to take them)???

                Also, if a Soldier is say a 12Kilo (Army Plumber), would it be possible to get certified as a Unit Armorer (additional weapons training?) and if so, how long would one have to remain in the billet?

                If a Soldier is qualified as a 12K, could he go through the 1 week long 12R course (reserve school) and stay as 12K Primary MOS but get 12R as an SMOS? If funding was an issue, could the individual Soldier provide partial or full funding to do it?

                Schools I'd be more interested in are Engineering MOS Schools. 12W, R, Y, N, B, V, C, etc.

                As far as non-MOS related schools, just Bradley Qualification, and qualifications for operating military vehicles the WAARNG uses. And weapons qualifications. (M4, M249, M240B, M9, M203, M320, Mk. 19 etc. Not familiarity training, actual qualifications traning) I could care less of other schools unless it would make me more rounded in Basic Soldiering Skills or more educated/diverse in Engineering Fields. (no disrespect to anyone)

                So if, one stays within the unit/fields etc. Can they fund their own training if the unit doesn't have enough?

                Reason I'm asking this, is because military training and qualifications/certifications, can strongly support civilian-side careers. As well as their military careers. Allowing Soldiers to Voluntarily, even partially fund some of their training schools, would be highly beneficial to both parties depending on the class/school.
                Really? (I'm saying it sarcastically and with a condescending tone.)

                I know many soldiers for whom their military service seemed to do them zero wonders.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Special Schools, Cant due to funding!?!?

                  Originally posted by Polo08816 View Post
                  Really? (I'm saying it sarcastically and with a condescending tone.)

                  I know many soldiers for whom their military service seemed to do them zero wonders.
                  I've seen many get solid government Federal and State jobs.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Special Schools, Cant due to funding!?!?

                    Originally posted by Chaplain4me View Post
                    I've seen many get solid government Federal and State jobs.
                    But we rarely pay attention to or notice the ones that aren't as fortunate.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Special Schools, Cant due to funding!?!?

                      Originally posted by Polo08816 View Post
                      Really? (I'm saying it sarcastically and with a condescending tone.)

                      I know many soldiers for whom their military service seemed to do them zero wonders.
                      Well, as Infantry, you guys make pretty good Security Guards..... And I'm not joking. Working for Department of the Navy, or Department of the Army as physical security (armed) pays pretty good.... That said, an RTO Army side with both the experience of serving in that function, and the FCC Certifications, he could absolutely qualify as a Radio Operator Civilian Side. Whether working for Maritime Vessels, Transportation Dispatch, or even EMS Radio Operations. If they get their CDLs, it helps for driving vehicles that way over 15,000lbs... Experience driving MRAPs in-country, would count as OTR experience because of the weight of the vehicles. It's not a matter of what they've learned, it's a matter of the kind of jobs they want to, and are willing to do.

                      Two of my brothers are working as members of an Emergency Command Center operating mobile surveylance and perform join communication operations between local, county, and federal agencies during mass casualty incidents, mass fires, or whenever a SWAT Team is breaching a high risk location. One is an 11B, got the job because he had experience as an RTO, Trained to operate the Bradleys computer and targetting systems, and experience as a DSM. And the other is a Cavalry Scout several months out of OSUT. Both have their CDLs, and both got their FCC licensing. One an E4, the other an E2, both making $50,000. Cavalry Scout graduated High School last June.

                      Instead of thinking what jobs can you get when all you "know" is to **** people, start thinking about civilian career fields that interest you, and what experience you have doing that, or a similiar job.

                      KNowing how to recieve, store, distribute, order, and ship materials and supplies, with experience/certified on Forklifts, qualify even an 11B to perform warehousing operations. If you're a Mechanized Unit, and your joes get hands on changing oil, and doing other basic maintenance tasks, congrats, they could put enough on resume to get even basic, entry level jobs working an automotive shop.

                      Even Tank Crewman can get jobs as automotive mechanics. Weapons Repair Soldiers who deal with electronics, can get entry level jobs as electronics Technicians. (Even Missile Repair works with Mechatronics).

                      Despite popular belief, everything in the Army can translate civilian side.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Special Schools, Cant due to funding!?!?

                        Originally posted by Polo08816 View Post
                        But we rarely pay attention to or notice the ones that aren't as fortunate.
                        Are you Light, Mechanized, or Stryker? Mortar, Sniper Section, Rifle Platoon, or Heavy Weapons Section?

                        Reason I'm asking, is because all four have skillsets of their own, some cross back and fourth, others specific to each group.

                        As a Junior Lieutenant in command of a Mortar Section for example, it's safe to assume you know how to utilize Communications, Fire Direction, and General Operations and Logistics, correct? You don't think your job may have civilian equivs, but it actually can translate into, and compliment civilian side career, and vice-versa.

                        Even that Private fresh out of OSUT has a great number of skillsets that directly apply to multiple different types of jobs.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Special Schools, Cant due to funding!?!?

                          True. I once talked with a esgr person that said soldiers shouldn't tell employers they are in the national guard.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Special Schools, Cant due to funding!?!?

                            Originally posted by Chaplain4me View Post
                            True. I once talked with a esgr person that said soldiers shouldn't tell employers they are in the national guard.
                            Just wondering, how come units wont allow Soldiers to voluntarily fund some of their schooling?

                            Also, regarding your post, how would it be explained when the general background check is done? Your SSN is your serial number, which clearly states on background checks you are a member of a military service. If you don't disclose you're in the Guard, how would you explain it if they brought it up?

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                            • #29
                              Re: Special Schools, Cant due to funding!?!?

                              I don't know what type of background checks you are accustomed to.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Special Schools, Cant due to funding!?!?

                                Originally posted by FutureEngineer View Post
                                Just wondering, how come units wont allow Soldiers to voluntarily fund some of their schooling?

                                Also, regarding your post, how would it be explained when the general background check is done? Your SSN is your serial number, which clearly states on background checks you are a member of a military service. If you don't disclose you're in the Guard, how would you explain it if they brought it up?
                                What type of background checks are you talking about?

                                For most of the private sector, they're checking credit and criminal history.

                                It's not like a BI for law enforcement.

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