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  • Specialty schools

    Just wondering what specialty schools allow females? Is Airborne one of the only ones?
    Is it true that if you do well in PT that you might be offered a slot in one of the schools? I'm sure, like everything nowadays, it is dependent upon monies/funding from your state, as well.

  • #2
    Re: Specialty schools

    When people use the term specialty schools in this context it typically means "a badge producing school". For the record badge/tab producing schools are only a tiny fraction of the non-branch/MOS producing schools found within the Army and the greater military service.

    Women can earn nearly all of the badges and tabs in the army "inventory". This would include all the Aviator badges (Pilot, Aircrew, Flight Surgeon, Astronaut), Explosive Ordinance Disposal Badge, Parachutist Badge (Airborne), Pathfinder Badge, Air Assault Badge, Military Freefall Parachutist Badge (HALO), Parachute Rigger Badge, the Engineer SAPPER tab, the Drill Sergeant Identification Badge, the Recruiting Badges, the Career Counselor (Retention) Badge, the rare Guard of Tomb of the Unknown Soldier badge, and the diving badges! The only ones I can think of that women are currently not eligible to obtain due to Federal Combat Exclusion laws are the Special Forces Identification Tab, the Expert Infantry Badge (you have to be infantry or SF to take the exam), and the Ranger Tab.

    A week ago the Army came out with this interesting news article: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-rt...0,443822.story

    If the article has validity apparently there is consideration to allow women to attend Ranger School.

    Other badges such as marksmanship and drivers badges are also earned by women, and the combat related badges with the exception of the Combat Infantryman Badge are authorized to women.

    So the bottom line is women can earn nearly ALL the badges in the Army inventory. Unfortunately, just getting a good PT score isn't what gives soldiers the opportunity to attend the associated schools. Most of the schools are job/unit dependent. Although Airborne and Air Assault school is sometimes used as a "reward" for exceptional performance.
    Last edited by Mongoose772; May 22nd, 2012, 10:32 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Specialty schools

      Originally posted by Mongoose772 View Post
      When people use the term specialty schools in this context it typically means "a badge producing school". For the record badge/tab producing schools are only a tiny fraction of the non-branch/MOS producing schools found within the Army and the greater military service.

      Women can earn nearly all of the badges and tabs in the army "inventory". This would include all the Aviator badges (Pilot, Aircrew, Flight Surgeon, Astronaut), Explosive Ordinance Disposal Badge, Parachutist Badge (Airborne), Pathfinder Badge, Air Assault Badge, Military Freefall Parachutist Badge (HALO), Parachute Rigger Badge, the Engineer SAPPER tab, the Drill Sergeant Identification Badge, the Recruiting Badges, the Career Counselor (Retention) Badge, the rare Guard of Tomb of the Unknown Soldier badge, and the diving badges! The only ones I can think of that women are currently not eligible to obtain due to Federal Combat Exclusion laws are the Special Forces Identification Tab, the Expert Infantry Badge (you have to be infantry or SF to take the exam), and the Ranger Tab.

      A week ago the Army came out with this interesting news article: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-rt...0,443822.story

      If the article has validity apparently there is consideration to allow women to attend Ranger School.

      Other badges such as marksmanship and drivers badges are also earned by women, and the combat related badges with the exception of the Combat Infantryman Badge are authorized to women.

      So the bottom line is women can earn nearly ALL the badges in the Army inventory. Unfortunately, just getting a good PT score isn't what gives soldiers the opportunity to attend the associated schools. Most of the schools are job/unit dependent. Although Airborne and Air Assault school is sometimes used as a "reward" for exceptional performance.
      That will be a disaster. Either the school will have to be completely softened or women will have a ridiculous fail-rate because the distribution of women that can pass an RPFT or an EIB ruck march standard is almost non-existent.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Specialty schools

        Originally posted by Mongoose772 View Post
        When people use the term specialty schools in this context it typically means "a badge producing school". For the record badge/tab producing schools are only a tiny fraction of the non-branch/MOS producing schools found within the Army and the greater military service.

        Women can earn nearly all of the badges and tabs in the army "inventory". This would include all the Aviator badges (Pilot, Aircrew, Flight Surgeon, Astronaut), Explosive Ordinance Disposal Badge, Parachutist Badge (Airborne), Pathfinder Badge, Air Assault Badge, Military Freefall Parachutist Badge (HALO), Parachute Rigger Badge, the Engineer SAPPER tab, the Drill Sergeant Identification Badge, the Recruiting Badges, the Career Counselor (Retention) Badge, the rare Guard of Tomb of the Unknown Soldier badge, and the diving badges! The only ones I can think of that women are currently not eligible to obtain due to Federal Combat Exclusion laws are the Special Forces Identification Tab, the Expert Infantry Badge (you have to be infantry or SF to take the exam), and the Ranger Tab.

        A week ago the Army came out with this interesting news article: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-rt...0,443822.story

        If the article has validity apparently there is consideration to allow women to attend Ranger School.

        Other badges such as marksmanship and drivers badges are also earned by women, and the combat related badges with the exception of the Combat Infantryman Badge are authorized to women.

        So the bottom line is women can earn nearly ALL the badges in the Army inventory. Unfortunately, just getting a good PT score isn't what gives soldiers the opportunity to attend the associated schools. Most of the schools are job/unit dependent. Although Airborne and Air Assault school is sometimes used as a "reward" for exceptional performance.
        The "President's 100" is a awesome tab. I have two badges trying for three (Pathfinder) but they are highly over-rated Just looks good on the uniform and make the envious/impressed ones think that you are high-speed.
        Last edited by Chief Kemosabe; May 23rd, 2012, 08:20 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Specialty schools

          Originally posted by Polo08816 View Post
          That will be a disaster. Either the school will have to be completely softened or women will have a ridiculous fail-rate because the distribution of women that can pass an RPFT or an EIB ruck march standard is almost non-existent.
          +1000000000

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Specialty schools

            Perhaps these liberal politicians can persuade our high-ranking officials to create "Rangette" school.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Specialty schools

              Originally posted by Mongoose772 View Post
              When people use the term specialty schools in this context it typically means "a badge producing school". For the record badge/tab producing schools are only a tiny fraction of the non-branch/MOS producing schools found within the Army and the greater military service.

              Women can earn nearly all of the badges and tabs in the army "inventory". This would include all the Aviator badges (Pilot, Aircrew, Flight Surgeon, Astronaut), Explosive Ordinance Disposal Badge, Parachutist Badge (Airborne), Pathfinder Badge, Air Assault Badge, Military Freefall Parachutist Badge (HALO), Parachute Rigger Badge, the Engineer SAPPER tab, the Drill Sergeant Identification Badge, the Recruiting Badges, the Career Counselor (Retention) Badge, the rare Guard of Tomb of the Unknown Soldier badge, and the diving badges! The only ones I can think of that women are currently not eligible to obtain due to Federal Combat Exclusion laws are the Special Forces Identification Tab, the Expert Infantry Badge (you have to be infantry or SF to take the exam), and the Ranger Tab.


              If the article has validity apparently there is consideration to allow women to attend Ranger School.

              Other badges such as marksmanship and drivers badges are also earned by women, and the combat related badges with the exception of the Combat Infantryman Badge are authorized to women.
              DIVE badges - Women can go to 12D-dive school, but they cannot attend Combat Divers Qualification Course (CDQC). BIG DIFFERENCE.

              Ranger School- I too am in agreement with Polo08816 and SGT Juggernaut. If it is ever opened up to women, then that will be one less leadership school not worth going to.
              Last edited by SF Hunter; October 7th, 2013, 04:32 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Specialty schools

                Originally posted by SF Hunter View Post
                SAPPER tab - Sapper Leader Course. The fact that this course is open to woman just proves my opinion that it is not at the same level as Ranger school.
                I'm a combat engineer in a Sapper company and I agree 100% with this sentiment. If given the choice between Ranger School or Sapper Leader Course I would choose Ranger School, hands down.

                Even still I really would like to go to SLC if given the opportunity. I'm supposed to go this year before our deployment but it seems like the state needs the POTUS stamp of approve before they will send me.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Specialty schools

                  I really don't get the mentality of this. If they send a woman to Ranger school and keep the same standards, and she passes, does that mean the standards were wimpy to begin with? I'm a woman, and I don't believe in them changing the standards of the specialty schools just for females. Either you meet the standards or you don't period.

                  Or is it that you guys just don't want to be beat by some girls?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Specialty schools

                    Originally posted by Solrider View Post
                    I really don't get the mentality of this. If they send a woman to Ranger school and keep the same standards, and she passes, does that mean the standards were wimpy to begin with? I'm a woman, and I don't believe in them changing the standards of the specialty schools just for females. Either you meet the standards or you don't period.

                    Or is it that you guys just don't want to be beat by some girls?
                    I was about to say the same thing. I don't mind seeing women succeed by meeting the same raw standards.

                    However, the issue is that this has never been about objective standards. No one denies that the vast majority of women would be ineligible based on the same raw standards for Ranger School. The problem is that this movement is completely politically motivated which means that there will be no regard to the same standards as long as this is part of someone's "agenda".

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Specialty schools

                      Originally posted by Solrider View Post
                      I really don't get the mentality of this. If they send a woman to Ranger school and keep the same standards
                      This is the real issue, isnt it?
                      More than likely they will "not" keep the same standards, just like the different physical standards for military service between the genders.
                      The Army always wants to have two sets of standards and claim equality.
                      Last edited by SF Hunter; December 12th, 2012, 04:11 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Specialty schools

                        Passing Ranger school isn't all about physical strength. It's mental and emotional.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Specialty schools

                          I am just as much to blame and everyone else, but we have TOTALLY hijacked this thread and gotten way off track from the original question.

                          Everyone, to include myself, needs to get back on topic. Thank you.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Specialty schools

                            Originally posted by selmore816 View Post
                            Is it true that if you do well in PT that you might be offered a slot in one of the schools? I'm sure, like everything nowadays, it is dependent upon monies/funding from your state, as well.
                            Not exactly, I was given an Air Assault slot for re-enlisting. My PT score didn't factor in at all in this case, all that was required was that my last one was a passing APFT. I was almost screwed out of that school too as the state last minute tried to play the "no money" card but my COC fought hard and won that battle for me.

                            The other way "highspeed" schools are typically given is off an OML list. So for instance if an infantry battalion has 5 slots for AAS or Airborne they will give those slots based on who is at the top of the list. So soldiers within the battlion will compete through PT scores, leadership evals etc. Every battalion sets the OML criteria differently so there is rarely consistency. And even if a soldier is #1 on the OML that is not a guarantee that that individual will ever get to go to a highspeed school. The whole funding issue comes up pretty often. Depending on the state, some soldiers will sit in the #1 spot for years and never go anywhere, and then the state wonders why they have retention issues with some of its best soldiers.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Specialty schools

                              Originally posted by SGT Juggernaut View Post
                              Not exactly, I was given an Air Assault slot for re-enlisting. My PT score didn't factor in at all in this case, all that was required was that my last one was a passing APFT. I was almost screwed out of that school too as the state last minute tried to play the "no money" card but my COC fought hard and won that battle for me.

                              The other way "highspeed" schools are typically given is off an OML list. So for instance if an infantry battalion has 5 slots for AAS or Airborne they will give those slots based on who is at the top of the list. So soldiers within the battlion will compete through PT scores, leadership evals etc. Every battalion sets the OML criteria differently so there is rarely consistency. And even if a soldier is #1 on the OML that is not a guarantee that that individual will ever get to go to a highspeed school. The whole funding issue comes up pretty often. Depending on the state, some soldiers will sit in the #1 spot for years and never go anywhere, and then the state wonders why they have retention issues with some of its best soldiers.
                              The state has retention issues because they play HILARIOUS games. I was told that if I managed to get a Ranger Physical done, they would fund Ranger School. However, they will not cut you orders/get you a Ranger Physical. Then when you get to IBOLC, they tell you they are more than happy to get you a Ranger Physical as long as you could show that you were reserved on ATTRS for Ranger School. Why doesn't the state just say, "Hey, not only am I d*cked up, I'm also broke." and stop playing the Catch 22 games? The RNCO, TNCO, and I just laughed, and I didn't spend any more time on the subject.

                              Comment

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