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  • #31
    Re: Bah / bas

    Originally posted by ParalegalNCO1 View Post
    No...I am 100% correct. Two married military members (both on active duty) with no dependant children both draw BAH at the without dependant rate.

    Two married military members both with the SAME DEPENDANT child...one draws BAH at the w/dependant rate, and the other at the single rate. (The senior person usually draws at the dependant rate).

    If those kids are not her dependants...whether she is married to a military member or not....she is going to get the without dependant rate. If she was married to a civilian, or had a child of her own, it would be a different story.

    You can read about it here....but it is very complex. (Ive also addressed this topic many times)

    DoD Financial Management Regulation Volume 7A, Chapter 26

    You should know not to doubt me by now.
    First, I tried looking at the regulation you provided, and it is no longer utilized: http://comptroller.defense.gov/fmr/07a/07a_26.pdf. I was redirected to the JFTR, specifically Chapter 10, Part B: Dependency. What I read here, collaborates with what I said above, so I am very interested to see in writing what you are referring to.

    Based on what I read and what my J1 confirmed, she should still get the dependent rate because she DOES have a dependent: her spouse. This is regardless if he is in the military or not. Therefore, she should get the MARRIED rate NOT the single rate. If she claims the single rate, and she and her husband get activated, they are going to get too much money and will have to pay it back. I've seen this happen before and it can be a financial nightmare. By regulation, she can actually claim step-children as further dependents if she substantially provides for their support (i.e. housing costs). However, like the OP implied, her finances are separate from her husbands, so this is likely not the case. Besides, she doesn't HAVE to claim the children and doesn't desire to, so it's a non-issue. Her husband will claim them separately as more dependents than just his wife.

    Again, bottom line is the OP has one dependent, her spouse, in which she must claim to obtain the proper married BAH rate.

    I don't doubt that you are knowledgeable at what you do, but the information I'm coming across does not match what you're saying. I can't in good conscience go off of your past posts when I'm being told something different. As you've pointed out to others on here, not everyone is right 100% of time right . If you've got more information to share, I would be happy to learn more about this topic. Otherwise, I would encourage the OP to get verification from her own J1 and/or Readiness NCO to ensure she is filling out the paperwork properly and is avoiding any pay issues in the future.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Bah / bas

      I have seen this debated so many times it makes me sick; obviously there is a need for clarification from DOD.The last information I heard (not that I really pay attention because it hasn't affected me) that both always get BAH, one at the with dependents rate and the other without dependents (despite having one)

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Bah / bas

        Originally posted by RyCass View Post
        First, I tried looking at the regulation you provided, and it is no longer utilized: http://comptroller.defense.gov/fmr/07a/07a_26.pdf. I was redirected to the JFTR, specifically Chapter 10, Part B: Dependency. What I read here, collaborates with what I said above, so I am very interested to see in writing what you are referring to.

        Based on what I read and what my J1 confirmed, she should still get the dependent rate because she DOES have a dependent: her spouse. This is regardless if he is in the military or not. Therefore, she should get the MARRIED rate NOT the single rate. If she claims the single rate, and she and her husband get activated, they are going to get too much money and will have to pay it back. I've seen this happen before and it can be a financial nightmare. By regulation, she can actually claim step-children as further dependents if she substantially provides for their support (i.e. housing costs). However, like the OP implied, her finances are separate from her husbands, so this is likely not the case. Besides, she doesn't HAVE to claim the children and doesn't desire to, so it's a non-issue. Her husband will claim them separately as more dependents than just his wife.

        Again, bottom line is the OP has one dependent, her spouse, in which she must claim to obtain the proper married BAH rate.

        I don't doubt that you are knowledgeable at what you do, but the information I'm coming across does not match what you're saying. I can't in good conscience go off of your past posts when I'm being told something different. As you've pointed out to others on here, not everyone is right 100% of time right . If you've got more information to share, I would be happy to learn more about this topic. Otherwise, I would encourage the OP to get verification from her own J1 and/or Readiness NCO to ensure she is filling out the paperwork properly and is avoiding any pay issues in the future.
        The only thing you are correct about is me posting a bad link to the reference. So I don't know what you thought you were reading; you should have contnued to part C specifically to the chapter that deals with member to member.

        1. There is no such thing as a "married rate". There is "BAH/with dependants" and "BAH/without dependants", BAH-Partial, Type II or Non Locality BAH, and BAH-Differential.

        2. Your J1 is wrong, tell him to stop putting out bad information.

        3. For the thrid time. Dual military marraige with no children will result in both members drawing the "without dependant" rate. (If they are both on active duty).

        4. It will not be a "married rate" because that doesn't exist.

        Copy and pasted for your viewing pleasure:

        Ch 10: Housing Allowances
        Part C: Member to Member
        U10200-U10208
        Change 307 U10C-1
        07/01/12
        PART C: MEMBER TO MEMBER
        U10200 GENERAL
        Per 37 USC ß421, a dependent who is on active duty in a U.S. Uniformed Service and entitled to basic pay cannot
        be a dependent for housing allowance purposes. See Table U10C-1 for housing allowances when both spouses are
        entitled to basic pay. See par. U10400-E4 for member to member couples on sea duty.

        Copied from Chart U10C-1. Its on the very first line.

        When member A has depns other than spouse : No

        and

        Member B has depns other than spouse: No

        and

        member acquires a child/children: No

        and

        single type GOVíT QTRS are assigned to: No

        then

        member A is authorized BAH or OHA as a member without dependants: Yes

        and

        member B is authorized BAH or OHA as a member without dependants: Yes


        And this statement you made: "If she claims the single rate, and she and her husband get activated, they are going to get too much money and will have to pay it back."...
        Makes less than zero sense since the BAH/Without rate is always equal to or less than the "with rate".
        Last edited by ParalegalNCO1; September 26th, 2012, 03:41 PM.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Bah / bas

          Originally posted by ajdeployed12 View Post
          I have seen this debated so many times it makes me sick; obviously there is a need for clarification from DOD.The last information I heard (not that I really pay attention because it hasn't affected me) that both always get BAH, one at the with dependents rate and the other without dependents (despite having one)
          Clarification given....all you have to do is reference it yourself, because you are correct....many people think it is rycass's version.

          In simple terms..the Army is not going to pay each person BAH twice. Think about it. Member A gets BAH for her and then the extra BAH for her Husband. And then Member B gets BAH and then the extra for his wife. But they are married to each other?? No...

          You're statement is correct if there is a shared child. Now analyze that with the common sense method. Member A gets BAH for her and her alone (without dependants). Member B gets BAH for himself and extra BAH (with dependants) for the kid. Everyone gets a BAH portion.

          I told him not to doubt me.
          Last edited by ParalegalNCO1; September 26th, 2012, 02:11 PM.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Bah / bas

            I'm just glad i'm divorced (marriage and divorce occured before enlisting) and have no children. This all confuses me every time. I'm also glad that at this point, I do not deal with it in the S1 section. Although I want to get married before this next deployment. lol wink wink @ the CWO (because this bothers you, not becuase I want to marry you! lol)

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Bah / bas

              Originally posted by WIBecky74 View Post
              I'm just glad i'm divorced (marriage and divorce occured before enlisting) and have no children. This all confuses me every time. I'm also glad that at this point, I do not deal with it in the S1 section. Although I want to get married before this next deployment. lol wink wink @ the CWO (because this bothers you, not becuase I want to marry you! lol)
              Its all really quite simple actually and not confusing. It gets confusing because people want to argue the topic and give inaccurate information without actually having facts supporting what they are saying.

              If you polled every S-1 shop in the Army, I'm willing to be over 50% get this question wrong when talking about dual married military.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Bah / bas

                So let me break this down for you to answer. There can only be so many situations.

                These are not answers. These are questions. Don't hurt your brain


                Col A. and LTC. B are married with no children. Both receive BAH w/o dependants. Yes or No?

                Col A. and LTC. B are married with children. COL receives BAH w/ dependants and LTC receives BAH w/o dependants. Yes or No?

                Col A. is divorced from LTC B. but were married with children. Both share custody with the children living "full time" at the LTCs house. COL A. receives BAH w/o dependants and LTC receives BAH w/ dependants. (I assume this is a tricky situation) Yes or No?

                Col A. is single with no children. COL receives BAH w/o dependants. Yes or No?

                Col A. is sngle with children. COL receives BAH w/ dependants. Yes or No?

                PVT Snuffy is living with his mom (she can care for herself). His mom writes him a lease. He then goes to BCT/AIT. Does he receive BAH? (just FYI, I know people who did this when deployed and received money).

                Mr. Loki is single with no children. He receives 1/8 BAH equal to the both married w/ children colonels. Yes or Yes?


                I can't / don't want to think of anything else.
                Last edited by Mr_Loki; September 28th, 2012, 02:03 PM.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Bah / bas

                  Originally posted by ParalegalNCO1 View Post
                  Its all really quite simple actually and not confusing. It gets confusing because people want to argue the topic and give inaccurate information without actually having facts supporting what they are saying.

                  If you polled every S-1 shop in the Army, I'm willing to be over 50% get this question wrong when talking about dual married military.
                  I guess we do a little bit of it in S1 like with DEERS but most of that auto fills or goes step by step. lol And any family changes and those BAH form thingies that come through on the TL system just get sent up to G1 anyways for the most part.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Bah / bas

                    Col A. and LTC. B are married with no children. Both receive BAH w/o dependants. Yes or No?

                    YES, while both are on active duty.

                    Col A. and LTC. B are married with children. COL receives BAH w/ dependants and LTC receives BAH w/o dependants. Yes or No?

                    YES assuming they all live in the same houshold. If they are geographically separated and the LTC has the child with him/her the LTC could draw with dependants and the COL without if it was better for them.

                    Col A. is divorced from LTC B. but were married with children. Both share custody with the children living "full time" at the LTCs house. COL A. receives BAH w/o dependants and LTC receives BAH w/ dependants. (I assume this is a tricky situation) Yes or No?

                    This is much more complex then yes or no. No way to answer without a specific individual set of facts.

                    Col A. is single with no children. COL receives BAH w/o dependants. Yes or No?

                    YES

                    Col A. is sngle with children. COL receives BAH w/ dependants. Yes or No?

                    YES

                    PVT Snuffy is living with his mom (she can care for herself). His mom writes him a lease. He then goes to BCT/AIT. Does he receive BAH? (just FYI, I know people who did this when deployed and received money).

                    For the purposes of the National Guard and Reserve, when you mobilize you are no longer required to submit lease/mortgage documents for BAH purposes pursuant to the PPG on the G-1 website. Snuffy is going to get BAH at his HOR on his orders regardless. For the purposes of BCT/AIT I would need to know what type of orders they were on. Not because they live with family but because you technically are receving governemnt quarters while there. When I went to WOCS, I received no BAH because of that rule.

                    Mr. Loki is single with no children. He receives 1/8 BAH equal to the both married w/ children colonels. Yes or Yes?

                    Hmmmm...possibly. What rank and zipcode does MR. Loki have?? LOL

                    I can't / don't want to think of anything else.

                    The X-factor with the reserve components really can be tricky because we are not always on active duty. In the case of two married individuals with no kids, (your question one) if one was to come off of active duty earlier then the other, the Soldier remaining on active duty could then draw BAH with dependants. As long as they are both on active duty they will both draw without. Now....add a child and it can become more complex.....Just use the Chart in the JFTR..its really too easy!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Bah / bas

                      Originally posted by ParalegalNCO1 View Post
                      PVT Snuffy is living with his mom (she can care for herself). His mom writes him a lease. He then goes to BCT/AIT. Does he receive BAH? (just FYI, I know people who did this when deployed and received money).

                      For the purposes of the National Guard and Reserve, when you mobilize you are no longer required to submit lease/mortgage documents for BAH purposes pursuant to the PPG on the G-1 website. Snuffy is going to get BAH at his HOR on his orders regardless. For the purposes of BCT/AIT I would need to know what type of orders they were on. Not because they live with family but because you technically are receving governemnt quarters while there. When I went to WOCS, I received no BAH because of that rule.
                      [/COLOR]

                      Actually, the answer to this one would be NO, he does not receive BAH (since he asked about while at BT/AIT not while deployed). The lease can not be with a parent unless the property is something that would be available for anyone to rent and is claimed on his moms taxes.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Bah / bas

                        Originally posted by HR NCO View Post
                        Actually, the answer to this one would be NO, he does not receive BAH (since he asked about while at BT/AIT not while deployed). The lease can not be with a parent unless the property is something that would be available for anyone to rent and is claimed on his moms taxes.
                        Yeah I didn't say yes or no, because you can go to some training on a full PCS order..there are variables, not many, but a few. Obviously I'm talking more AIT and not so much BCT. In that scenario moms lease again becomes moot.

                        If rycass didn't argue, the sheep I count at night would still be saying Bahhhh and not BAH.
                        Last edited by ParalegalNCO1; September 28th, 2012, 04:11 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Bah / bas

                          I figured I needed to clarify so that all of the sudden the PVTs didn't think they could get BAH at basic with just a lease from mom.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Bah / bas

                            Originally posted by HR NCO View Post
                            I figured I needed to clarify so that all of the sudden the PVTs didn't think they could get BAH at basic with just a lease from mom.
                            True....to get even further in the weeds, there are legit ways to claim your parent/parents as dependants

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Bah / bas

                              Originally posted by Mr_Loki View Post
                              You can't rent from your parents and get BAH. Not legally, at least.
                              Originally posted by fmcityslicker View Post
                              I never chuckled so hard at a post until I read "You can notorize a dog turd all you want, but it is still just a turd".

                              I can see Squash in PM with the OP. "psst, dont listen to him, you can get BAH. Give me a call and I provide further details" lol.
                              It's not authorized, but that is not to say it has not been done. I know of people who went to IBOLC and received BAH when they were actually ineligible for it by having a lease agreement with their parents. No one cared whether it was legitimate or not.

                              However, a good portion of those individuals may have been on Title 32 orders instead of Title 10. If you F up on Title 32 orders, usually they just send you home and let your home state handle it.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Bah / bas

                                Originally posted by Polo08816 View Post
                                It's not authorized, but that is not to say it has not been done. I know of people who went to IBOLC and received BAH when they were actually ineligible for it by having a lease agreement with their parents. No one cared whether it was legitimate or not.

                                However, a good portion of those individuals may have been on Title 32 orders instead of Title 10. If you F up on Title 32 orders, usually they just send you home and let your home state handle it.
                                I was on ADOS for a short time after I left active duty and before going to flight school, and was paying rent for a room from my parents. They put me on type 2 BAH for it, but I had it switched to regular BAH and got back pay no problem. They did make me sign some extra paper work, get it notarized and provide bank statements proving I actually was paying though.

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