Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

After Wasting $5 Billion, the Army Is Eyeing These New Camouflage Patterns

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • After Wasting $5 Billion, the Army Is Eyeing These New Camouflage Patterns

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/after-...-patterns.html

  • #2
    Re: After Wasting $5 Billion, the Army Is Eyeing These New Camouflage Patterns

    Again, you are posting stuff I have posted eons ago lol. Like the last thread; it is best to put all new info on the same topic in one thread than to create a totally new one. Doesn't overburden the search engine lol.

    http://www.nationalguard.com/forums/...ghlight=us4ces

    BLUF: The US Army will replace the UCP. It is going to happen. And cost will be a factor but many of the competitors are saying that it will not affect the current clothing costs that soldiers bear. The new fiscal year is three days away and the Phase IV camouflage testing will be complete in November. Will sequestration delay the decision for new uniform changes (as well at the ASU)? I believe so but it will solve the overall problem and keep OCIE in check. I been wearing multicam now for 8 months and I do like it over the greyish ACU but it does not solve the one uniform for all environments problem. Personally, I believe US4CES is the best amongst the bunch.

    Also, clothing and sales stores are preparing for this. Less UCP items are being ordered because of the expectant changes.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: After Wasting $5 Billion, the Army Is Eyeing These New Camouflage Patterns

      Again, the article gives the impression that multicam will be the one selected and that is not true.

      http://www.military.com/daily-news/2...3317828&rank=1 <--article that was found to be false

      "Army to Recommend MultiCam for Entire Force" FALSE
      Military.com recently reported "After years of testing, Army uniform officials are planning to recommend that MultiCam should replace today's pixilated design as the official camouflage pattern the service issues to all soldiers, Military.com has learned."...
      "One option would be to make MultiCam the Army's official camouflage pattern, sources tell Military.com.
      The second option would be to make MultiCam the service's pattern for garrison and general deployment use, but also to have a family of approved camouflage patterns that could be issued for specific areas of the world.
      Earlier this week, UCP came under fire again in a story by The Daily, an online news site, which quoted several Army scientists from Natick Soldier Systems Center, Mass., alleging that the Army selected UCP long before testing was complete."



      http://www.hyperstealth.com/pixel-ca...ive/index.html

      http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/foru...owtopic=148068

      Given that Phase IV Field Trials are just beginning within the next few weeks, if true these, two options follow the same mistake that the Army made with UCP "the Army selected UCP long before testing was complete.".
      Even without Phase IV testing, we can see from Previous U.S. Army Natick testing that Multicam does not provide an adequate solution for either Cropland/Woodland or Sandy Desert Terrains.
      In 2010 the Army began Phase IV Camouflage testing using a series of experiments to down select from about 20 industry submissions, with each submission consisting of a family of camouflage sharing a similar geometry but recolored to work in three separate environments (Tropical/Woodland, Desert/Arid and Transitional) to allow the Army to operate in different terrains around the world. This initial testing concluded in January to four commercial finalists who have all been asked for Field Trial Uniforms and gear to compete against three baseline patterns AOR-1 for Desert/Arid, Multicam for Transitional and AOR-2 for Tropical/Woodland.
      Commercial finalists currently undergoing field trials include
      ADS Inc as Prime, partnered with Guy Cramer
      Brookwood Companies
      Crye Precision
      Kryptek

      I have since been informed that these comments from "Uniform Officials" are either in error or were taken out of context, I was told that the Army will continue with Field Trials and report the findings to Army leaders before any decision is made based on the winner which will be based on the field tests and one final Photo Simulation Perception Study based on photos of the actual uniforms .

      Is Multicam unbeatable?
      Our internal objective tests based off of previous U.S. Military testing techniques showed that our US4CES Transitional pattern exceed the U.S. Navy’s AOR-2 pattern by 19.86% and OEF/OCP (MultiCamŽ) by 26.71% within transitional environments. See www.adsinc.com/us4ces
      We know we exceeded the Arid/Desert baseline AOR-1 in Natick simulation studies with our US4CES Arid and statically equaled AOR-1 with our US4CES Woodland.
      The reason for field trials are to see if the real world corresponds to the simulation results, many different factors can only be determined with field trials.
      Why not just go with MARPAT?
      The baseline patterns AOR-1 and AOR-2 are the same pattern as MARPAT with slightly different colors which both tested better than MARPAT Woodland and MARPAT Desert in those respective environments. The winner of Phase IV is expected to exceed the baseline patterns to provide the most effective family of camouflage to the U.S. Army.
      Our US4CES pattern is designed to disrupt at tactical combat distances which MARPAT, CADPAT, AOR-1, AOR-2 fall victim to a problem called isoluminance which the four colors blend into one color due to the tight proximity of the pattern. Both the Micropattern - pixels and Macropattern are larger in US4CES and the pattern has been developed to disrupt both the human shape and mask movement.

      Universal Camouflage Pattern was not a pattern design flaw but a coloration issue, UCP is a three color version of MARPAT, AOR-1, AOR-2 which have shown to be very effective. Digital works because it breaks up straight lines while also creating background noise and allows for colors to mix leading to a more natural effect at proper viewing distances.
      What a waste of money!
      We can't dwell on things that we can't change but the Army can look ahead. The Army thought of licensing this differently than they have in the past, the winning submission would be awarded a fixed one time payment to license the family to the Army, as the Army requested each finalist to specify an amount, they are different for each company and will only be awarded to the winning company.
      ADS Inc as Prime, partnered with Guy Cramer
      Brookwood Companies

      Crye Precision
      Kryptek

      Given the F-35 fighter jet will cost over $112 Million dollars per aircraft to produce and the entire F-35 program is estimated to cost $323 Billion Dollars once all the required aircraft are produced, the U.S. Army cannot be faulted on this program regarding cost to protect their soldiers on the ground.





      Comment


      • #4
        Re: After Wasting $5 Billion, the Army Is Eyeing These New Camouflage Patterns

        http://www.military.com/daily-news/2...nk=1#community
        Report Slams Military's Recent Camouflage Uniforms

        Sep 28, 2012
        Military.com| by Michael Hoffman and Matthew Cox

        A government watchdog issued a scathing report Friday blasting the U.S. military for the way it has developed camouflage uniforms over the past decade, putting troops at risk and wasting millions of dollars.
        The Government Accountability Office picked out the Air Force and Army as extreme offenders among the services lambasting their development of the Airman Battle Uniform in 2002 and the Army Combat Uniform in 2003.
        Each service has developed its own camouflage uniform over the past ten years. Military service leaders have introduced seven new patterns -- two desert, two woodland and three universal -- since 2002.
        GAO officials urged Defense Department leaders to work together and avoid the "fragmented approach" the different services have used in the past.
        Last edited by RyCass; October 25th, 2012, 11:49 AM. Reason: Corrected format

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: After Wasting $5 Billion, the Army Is Eyeing These New Camouflage Patterns

          Here is the actual GAO report.

          http://www.gao.gov/assets/650/648951.pdf

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: After Wasting $5 Billion, the Army Is Eyeing These New Camouflage Patterns

            I'm surprized the developmental cost numbers aren't that bad.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: After Wasting $5 Billion, the Army Is Eyeing These New Camouflage Patterns

              Originally posted by Mongoose772 View Post
              I'm surprized the developmental cost numbers aren't that bad.
              Soldier Systems Daily wrote an excellent response

              http://soldiersystems.net/2012/10/01...mong-services/

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: After Wasting $5 Billion, the Army Is Eyeing These New Camouflage Patterns

                US4CES comparison

                http://www.hyperstealth.com/US4CES-c...son/index.html

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: After Wasting $5 Billion, the Army Is Eyeing These New Camouflage Patterns

                  I know there are about 4 threads on US4CES camo but I just read the online version of this week's Army Times and a decision will come out in a few months; along with the new PT uniform and results on ASU changes.

                  And this is coming from the SMA who got briefed on the results on April 11.
                  Last edited by Chief Kemosabe; April 14th, 2013, 11:18 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: After Wasting $5 Billion, the Army Is Eyeing These New Camouflage Patterns

                    Originally posted by Chief Kemosabe View Post
                    I know there are about 4 threads on US4CES camo but I just read the online version of this week's Army Times and a decision will come out in a few months; along with the new PT uniform and results on ASU changes.

                    And this is coming from the SMA who got briefed on the results on April 11.
                    Not sure if I would hold my breathe on this one.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: After Wasting $5 Billion, the Army Is Eyeing These New Camouflage Patterns

                      Latest Army Times article actually says they are weeks away from a final solution/decision. Regardless of the "when," I live Acquisition everyday so I can personally tell you this won't be a quick implementation after they choose a pattern. Time from requirements definition to execution is such a lengthy and bureaucratic process. PEO Soldier is up to the task...I hope, but we're talking a couple years at best especially before we see new uniforms in the NG.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: After Wasting $5 Billion, the Army Is Eyeing These New Camouflage Patterns

                        Originally posted by eqmcclure View Post
                        Latest Army Times article actually says they are weeks away from a final solution/decision. Regardless of the "when," I live Acquisition everyday so I can personally tell you this won't be a quick implementation after they choose a pattern. Time from requirements definition to execution is such a lengthy and bureaucratic process. PEO Soldier is up to the task...I hope, but we're talking a couple years at best especially before we see new uniforms in the NG.
                        +1 and here is the link if you have access to the online Army Times

                        http://www.armytimes.com/article/201...-Who-gets-when

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: After Wasting $5 Billion, the Army Is Eyeing These New Camouflage Patterns

                          Now there is SURPAT!!

                          http://www.srvv.org/en/surpat/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: After Wasting $5 Billion, the Army Is Eyeing These New Camouflage Patterns

                            Now there is Surpat!!

                            http://www.srvv.org/en/surpat/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: After Wasting $5 Billion, the Army Is Eyeing These New Camouflage Patterns

                              glad to see they are finally making a decision on a legitimate camo to issue out. If they were smart they would ditch all the velcro pockets for buttons. I'm not feeling too hot on the pt uniform switch though

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X