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  • Attendance Regs

    Anyone direct me to attendance regs?

    I hear a coupl eof differant requirements and I want to run the truth to ground.

    IE If a soldier does a 3 week school can we require them to do 2 weeks of A.T.

    What things can we require them to attend outside of regular MUTAs and AT?

    What action can be taken if a soldier misses a weekend, say a MUTA 4? I hear of leadership calling law enforcement on one hand, and on another, I hear they can miss and there is nothing you can do until they miss having a good year.

    I am certain there are a lot of comments out there.

    I am not looking for arguements or debates here, I am looking for FACTS.

    If you got them, please send them.

    Thank You

  • #2
    Re: Attendance Regs

    If a soldier does a 3 week school can we require them to do 2 weeks of A.T.
    Probably not on this one. Actually, I'm suprised you can get funding for it.

    What things can we require them to attend outside of regular MUTAs and AT?
    No but you can creative with it. Like those extra things become MUTAs or if they're NCOs have it affect thier NCOERs if they don't participate.

    What action can be taken if a soldier misses a weekend, say a MUTA 4?
    You would "U" the Soldier for any missed UTAs. Max 4 per drill and after 9, the commander can begin seperation.

    A lot of your questions and answers, you need your commander's support and higher headquaters support. Especially if for things like seperation/administartive actions

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Attendance Regs

      As far as your concerns with attendance in regards to law enforcement and such, that depends on your states military laws. I was once in a state where getting a warrant through the county and picking the guy up was rather easy. In addition, that state could put guys in jail for 8 days on non judicial punishment. Not every state/territory has laws like that on their books. And then, even some that due don't really utilize them.

      On the admin side of the house the above advice for seperation and missed mutas will be consistant everywhere.

      As far as what can you require a solider to attend outside of muta....basically if they are not getting paid for it, they aren't required to go.

      AR 135-91 and AR 135-178 are good places to start reading resources. If you are interested in learning about punitive action possibilites please identify your state.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Attendance Regs

        I am familiar witht the codes as I am the one that fills them in. I am no tlooking to punish anyone. Let us assume also that they are getting paid for all that they do. And also that the SM is E-4 or below. A typical M-day soldier.

        I am trying to decipher some of the myths and rumors.

        IE another 1sg told me he will send the sheriff after a soldier who is not in formation. I asked after how many times? He said anytime any soldier is not in formation he calls in a warrent. i am not sure that this is legal. I do not do this in my company, I chose to handle it differently.

        I asked two readiness NCO's about the AT and school scenario. One told me, that we can not make them do AT since they allready did more then 2 weeks at a school, and that m-day soldier are only required to do 48 MUTA and 14 days AT, nothing more can be forced on them, shy of natural emergency stuff. The other told me that we can make them do AT and anything else that we want them to do.

        For example some soldiers are told they must come in and work under RMP money to handle things prior to an event. They are not given an option, they were told that they would be there.

        As a 1SG I should know this forward and backward, and I do not. I spent 14yrs active, and another 6 guard so far, so I am still learnign some things about how business is conducted.

        I appreciate teh responses so far, thank you

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Attendance Regs

          Welcome to the forums. Good questions.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Attendance Regs

            Originally posted by 1SG-Reddog View Post
            I am familiar witht the codes as I am the one that fills them in. I am no tlooking to punish anyone. Let us assume also that they are getting paid for all that they do. And also that the SM is E-4 or below. A typical M-day soldier.

            I am trying to decipher some of the myths and rumors.

            IE another 1sg told me he will send the sheriff after a soldier who is not in formation. I asked after how many times? He said anytime any soldier is not in formation he calls in a warrent. i am not sure that this is legal. I do not do this in my company, I chose to handle it differently.

            I asked two readiness NCO's about the AT and school scenario. One told me, that we can not make them do AT since they allready did more then 2 weeks at a school, and that m-day soldier are only required to do 48 MUTA and 14 days AT, nothing more can be forced on them, shy of natural emergency stuff. The other told me that we can make them do AT and anything else that we want them to do.

            For example some soldiers are told they must come in and work under RMP money to handle things prior to an event. They are not given an option, they were told that they would be there.

            As a 1SG I should know this forward and backward, and I do not. I spent 14yrs active, and another 6 guard so far, so I am still learnign some things about how business is conducted.

            I appreciate teh responses so far, thank you
            For the sheriff thing, does that sound excessive?..yes. But again, whether or not you can or can't and to what extent isn't found in army regulation. There are 54 different answers, those answers are found in the local laws.

            As far as duty past 48 mutas and AT....understand the difference in the wording make and recourse. I concur with both the readiness NCO's. The question is what recourse do you have if they do not comply. The answer there is none. You can "make" soldiers do additional duties with RMP money and so fourth. But just saying something like....from now on we do drill twice a month....thats not going to fly when joe snuffy just says...heck no, because there is no "recourse". They already are a satisfactory participant. The exceptions are obviously mobilizations, and state active duty.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Attendance Regs

              This why I PM'd you, you really need your commander/higher support.

              Both Readiness NCOs are correct. You can't make them but you can "make" them do it. Don't want to do more than 48 UTAs, ok tie the additional drill time to the MUTAs in such a way if they don't do the extra time, they get U's for the MUTAs. Ie an overnight mission with weapons. There would be no way for the Soldier to get his weapon on Sat morning.

              Don't want to do 3 weeks AT, instead do a 9 day home station AT with weekends off. With the weekends off, that will be two sets of orders and be paid twice.

              In the end, it's usually a failure to communicate to the Soldier of what's going on or how important they are to the mission.
              Last edited by RedLeg; June 7th, 2013, 10:15 PM. Reason: Typos

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Attendance Regs

                I find it hard to believe that NGB has not addressed attendance on a national level? Just because I can call the local sheriff and they will go to a soldiers house, does not mean that is something NGB approves of. I actually find it hard to believe that if a soldier makes one mistake and forgets drill wekend, that it is allowed to have them arrested for awol. Wonder what IG would say about that?

                I need to get those regs and see what they cover.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Attendance Regs

                  When I was a new recruit, my unit (Iowa) scared us with the threat of police. This was way back in 2001-2002. However, when we had guys not show up in my Jersey unit...the NDRCO(sp?) (I forget how to pronounce it, basically the lackey for the RNCO) and I went to their houses and asked them why they hadn't shown up to drill. That was in 2007-2008.

                  I've never known anyone to get approached by police, but a ton of rumors.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Attendance Regs

                    Originally posted by 1SG-Reddog View Post
                    I find it hard to believe that NGB has not addressed attendance on a national level? Just because I can call the local sheriff and they will go to a soldiers house, does not mean that is something NGB approves of. I actually find it hard to believe that if a soldier makes one mistake and forgets drill wekend, that it is allowed to have them arrested for awol. Wonder what IG would say about that?

                    I need to get those regs and see what they cover.
                    I don't know any other way to say that it is based upon state law. And its not really an arrest for awol. I won't get into the weeds on that but just trust me when I say missing drill is not "awol".

                    NGB cannot direct, approve, or disapprove what a states government has put on the books. Just like they wouldn't direct the maximum speed limit of soldiers NGB wide, because that is a state law. You abide by what it is or isn't in the jurisdiction you live.

                    You need to step out of the "whats the regulation say" type mentality and understand each state is different. Some states adopted the UCMJ word for word via a well written state statute. Some states have their own "state code of military conduct". Some states have nothing. If you are really that concerned the person/people that would know would be your JFHQ JAG shop. Because again, I know some states that have military laws on the books but they are not the norm. If you called the sheriff in those locations he would laugh at you. JFHQ JAG will know whats allowed, and also what the normal practices are. You aren't going to find that in the "reg".

                    However, nothing that I have said is relevant to administrative type procedures, for example unstaisfactory particpant discharges / reductions and so on.

                    You still haven't identified your state. I could easily look your state statutes up.
                    Last edited by Mr.Incognito; June 8th, 2013, 01:09 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Attendance Regs

                      Originally posted by SteveLord View Post
                      I've never known anyone to get approached by police, but a ton of rumors.
                      I can confirm at least one state that makes it a quasi common practice.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Attendance Regs

                        Originally posted by 1SG-Reddog View Post
                        I find it hard to believe that NGB has not addressed attendance on a national level? Just because I can call the local sheriff and they will go to a soldiers house, does not mean that is something NGB approves of. I actually find it hard to believe that if a soldier makes one mistake and forgets drill wekend, that it is allowed to have them arrested for awol. Wonder what IG would say about that?

                        I need to get those regs and see what they cover.
                        How long you been a first sergeant? They do not cover these issues at the course?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Attendance Regs

                          Originally posted by Chief Kemosabe View Post
                          How long you been a first sergeant? They do not cover these issues at the course?
                          No, they wouldn't. They would address the administrative procedures and big Army UCMJ at the most, because Army schools don't teach the 54 different ways to do things. Its the same way when I go to schools. All we talk is how to process regular army actions. Joe Snuffy goes back to his unit without the slightest bit of training on state law.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Attendance Regs

                            Originally posted by Mr.Incognito View Post
                            No, they wouldn't. They would address the administrative procedures and big Army UCMJ at the most, because Army schools don't teach the 54 different ways to do things. Its the same way when I go to schools. All we talk is how to process regular army actions. Joe Snuffy goes back to his unit without the slightest bit of training on state law.
                            I am already ahead of you because I saw this at http://pa.ng.mil/ARNG/166/3rdBN/Page...rsePhase2.aspx but I thought it will come up as some form of discussion.

                            I have to give my compliments to you Paralegal. You are the first part-time E-6 that knows so much about what happens in the echelons of senior enlisted, warrant and officer ranks. You truly are in the inside and have a wealth of wisdom lol

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Attendance Regs

                              Originally posted by Chief Kemosabe View Post
                              I am already ahead of you because I saw this at http://pa.ng.mil/ARNG/166/3rdBN/Page...rsePhase2.aspx but I thought it will come up as some form of discussion.

                              I have to give my compliments to you Paralegal. You are the first part-time E-6 that knows so much about what happens in the echelons of senior enlisted, warrant and officer ranks. You truly are in the inside and have a wealth of wisdom lol
                              Its not that I know what they teach at the 1SG course, obviously I have never been, its just with my job I know what there is no way they could possibly cover the material we are talking about here. Even the legal center in charlottesvile doesn't formally train any type of state law pursuant to the national guard.

                              Comment

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