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  • #16
    Re: Worthless?

    This is my third branch, USMCR, USCG, and now Army National Guard. Each is different and has its different pros and cons. Basic in Marines was harder than Coast Guard, but I learned in both.
    New to the Guard, but just as proud to be in it as I was the other two.

    Cheers

    Bry

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    • #17
      Re: Worthless?

      Originally posted by VICEROY06 View Post
      Damn right. It's actually easier to be in the Army than it is to be in the National Guard. When ALL YOU DO is eat, drink, and sleep Army 5 days a week it's EASY to stay in shape and be up to speed on all that's Army. But when you're in the Guard and have a completely separate life that takes you light years away from any kind of military lifestyle for weeks on end, then have to be ready to PERFORM on moments notice that's a horse of a different color.
      +1

      To top it off, the time required of you increases with rank. There is no decent senior NCO or officer in the Guard that plays soldier just for 1 weekend a month.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Worthless?

        He is comparing the Navy's version of infantry soldiers with the entire Army National Guard. That is like trying to argue that a 4 wheel drive truck is better in the mud than a sports car. These two organizations have completely different puposes.

        When the hurricanes hit. Who goes to the people and gets them food, water, shelter, and security? The National Guard.

        Who goes to war? Army, National Guard, Navy, and Air Force together.

        Neither of you are ready for the military in my opinion. Stick to COD balck ops and war movies. Way better than the real thing.

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        • #19
          Re: Worthless?

          Originally posted by kvrL33 View Post
          He is comparing the Navy's version of infantry soldiers with the entire Army National Guard. That is like trying to argue that a 4 wheel drive truck is better in the mud than a sports car. These two organizations have completely different puposes.

          When the hurricanes hit. Who goes to the people and gets them food, water, shelter, and security? The National Guard.

          Who goes to war? Army, National Guard, Navy, and Air Force together.

          Neither of you are ready for the military in my opinion. Stick to COD balck ops and war movies. Way better than the real thing.
          I like to bust balls as much as the next guy, but that's a pretty unflattering description of Marine infantry.

          Marine infantry and Army infantry may have different doctrinal missions, but their actual missions are often very much alike -- or at least have been during recent conflicts.

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          • #20
            Re: Worthless?

            Originally posted by jwarren View Post
            I like to bust balls as much as the next guy, but that's a pretty unflattering description of Marine infantry.

            Marine infantry and Army infantry may have different doctrinal missions, but their actual missions are often very much alike -- or at least have been during recent conflicts.
            +1. I compare that to calling Warrant Officers, Third Lieutenants lol.

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            • #21
              Re: Worthless?

              Originally posted by Chief Kemosabe View Post
              +1. I compare that to calling Warrant Officers, Third Lieutenants lol.
              Ha, I haven't heard that one. I have heard of 2LTs who are not branch qualified being referred to as "Third Lieutenants," however. And I happen to feel it's appropriate, at least for those who are taking their time going to BOLC -- if it were up to me, 2LTs would continue to drill with the OCS company until receiving orders for BOLC and their time in grade would only start to accrue once they begin the course. But I don't think they're about to solicit policy suggestions from a 1LT.

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              • #22
                Re: Worthless?

                When your buddy finishes his 4 years of being in the Marines let Lance CPL NOITALL that we could probably get him E-4 in 12 months!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Worthless?

                  Thank you to all of you for responding to this thread and giving your input. I've been focusing on my PT and getting ready to leave for basic training this Sunday with all of my motivation and determination to get me through it all, so once again thank you all.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Worthless?

                    Originally posted by AIRBORNE View Post
                    When your buddy finishes his 4 years of being in the Marines let Lance CPL NOITALL that we could probably get him E-4 in 12 months!
                    Doing good work and not being promoted = getting screwed.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Worthless?

                      Originally posted by VICEROY06 View Post
                      Damn right. It's actually easier to be in the Army than it is to be in the National Guard. When ALL YOU DO is eat, drink, and sleep Army 5 days a week it's EASY to stay in shape and be up to speed on all that's Army. But when you're in the Guard and have a completely separate life that takes you light years away from any kind of military lifestyle for weeks on end, then have to be ready to PERFORM on moments notice that's a horse of a different color.

                      My job and family keeps me pretty damn busy these days and my PT score suffers (high 240's) the older my grandkids get and the more time I have to spend with my wife to keep her quiet due to all this training I keep chasing. But once I'm in the mode of doing PT everyday my score runs back up to the high 280's.
                      Originally posted by SteveLord View Post
                      +1

                      To top it off, the time required of you increases with rank. There is no decent senior NCO or officer in the Guard that plays soldier just for 1 weekend a month.

                      I disagree because I have been on serving on active duty for more than a day around the globe and served ten years in the reserve and Guard so I can truly distinguish the difference. Also, if your only time that you served on active duty has been on BCT, AIT, AGR/Tech, ADOS, State/Federal activated deployment, you still cannot distinguish between the two because you still have not experience what it entails to be an AD Soldier. When does a NG/RA Soldier have to deal with CQ/Staff duty and weekly motor stables details?

                      First, AD does not play Army 5 days a week, we play it 24 hours a day; seven days a week, 365 days a year and for a reserve component Soldier it is all relevant. The Army does not pay me nearly 6 figures so I can have a cush job.

                      My first four years of military service, I was in the reserves and Guard and was always told the same; that it is harder serving the Reserve components for the reasons as Viceroy wrote. I realized those things are told at times so the Guard/Reserve does not have to feel itself inadequate against the active component. And honestly, those things should not be said period. It Guard is not harder than AD but it may be more of a time management challenge in which we still deal with time management issues in the active component. Not everyone in the reserve component has a challenging civilian career. Many of those Soldiers still live at home with their parents; are working non-skilled job or aren't or simply going to school.

                      My biggest challenge while I was in the Guard was when I was going to UCONN full-time, attending traditional OCS, and working as a network engineer for a fortune 500 company that has me on the road at times; plus a pregnant spouse. Talk about having so much on your plate. But PT was never an issue.

                      On AD, Soldiers are having issues and challenges daily. On a daily basis, there is an article 15 or court-martial happening. Daily formations at 0630 with mandatory PT schedule from 0630-0800. If you are overweight or low on PT score or failing it; you are doing PT twice a day.

                      My neighbor who is a Platoon Sergeant has to show up to a meeting before morning formation at 0530 and then he is also the NCOIC of the S1. He has to deal with Soldiers who get arrested off-post and has to pick them up on weekends. And Mr. InCognito can attest how life can be for a Soldier at the 101st or 82nd Airborne. You saw Band of Brothers lol.

                      I finished my master's while on active duty and that was a challenge; plus I have to deal with issues of running my section and dealing with other hats. I have to write reports, rate or senior rate NCOERs, do analysis and deal with a SIR (serious incident report) at all times of the day and night based on my own and the CCIR.

                      My brigade is losing hundreds of Soldiers that are ETSing and many have told me that they cannot wait to start a new life and deal with the military in the Reserves or Guard. I wish them luck.

                      Not every officer or senior NCO in the Guard is involved more than 1 weekend a month. And they can still be decent. Some of in positions that do not require their presence at meetings before drill weekend. But many like to get involved in taskers so they earn more retirement points knowing that their end of service is near.

                      AD is a different animal none of the less and it is a very demanding lifestyle. Many are separated from the military because they failed to adapt.
                      Last edited by Chief Kemosabe; May 2nd, 2013, 06:40 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Worthless?

                        Originally posted by Chief Kemosabe View Post
                        I disagree because I have been on serving on active duty for more than a day around the globe and served ten years in the reserve and Guard so I can truly distinguish the difference. Also, if your only time that you served on active duty has been on BCT, AIT, AGR/Tech, ADOS, State/Federal activated deployment, you still cannot distinguish between the two because you still have not experience what it entails to be an AD Soldier.

                        First, AD does not play Army 5 days a week, we play it 24 hours a day; seven days a week, 365 days a year and for a reserve component Soldier it is all relevant. The Army does not pay me nearly 6 figures so I can have a cush job.

                        My first four years of military service, I was in the reserves and Guard and was always told the same; that it is harder serving the Reserve components for the reasons as Viceroy wrote. I realized those things are told at times so the Guard/Reserve does not have to feel itself inadequate against the active component. And honestly, those things should not be said period. It Guard is not harder than AD but it may be more of a time management challenge in which we still deal with time management issues in the active component. Not everyone in the reserve component has a challenging civilian career. Many of those Soldiers still live at home with their parents; are working non-skilled job or aren't or simply going to school.
                        Let me put it to you this way: I've worked at various high schools that had an ROTC program. I've seen veteran Regular Army NCO's and CO's,--a full bird at that--get eaten alive in less than an average school year.

                        I can't speak for every Guard member but my wife and I begin our day around 4am everyday. It's a cross between doing paperwork or having a quick little workout before the mad dash to work and clocking in between 6:30 to 6:55am. I don't want to type the dizzying craziness I go through in just one day of teaching over 500 students. Race home and break for around an hour for a meal, then run back out the the gym and work out for around 2 hours. And I'm not talking about walking on a treadmill while having a convo with Buffy and Mike while they hop up and down on an elliptical. I'm talking about full fledge cross training, 2-a-day type workouts. More paperwork and/or faculty meetings and plethora of other board meetings and whatnot and we might get to bed by 2200.

                        I've watched several relatives from Staff Sergeants to LTCs put in their 20+ years in Active Duty. Minus their deployments there was nothing mind numbing about their careers. For me BCT and AIT was a literal vacation. Nothing to do but stay in shape, eat and sleep. I'm sure the day-to-day on base has its moments, though. PT everyday? Great. 24-7 Army? Stupendous. At least then you're always in the mode.
                        Last edited by VICEROY06; May 2nd, 2013, 06:49 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Worthless?

                          First An ROTC assignment is considered sham, so I wouldn't gauge your AD opinion on it. Also, I doubt in 20 years that ROTC instructor had it easy for all those years. Plus, AD Soldiers spend an average of 13 hours a day at their unit. And we do not get overtime. Look at the work and stress of Drill Sergeant and recruiter.

                          I spent over a decade doing civilian IT working at places like the UN and now do it in the Army. Doing IT and playing Soldier full-time at the same time adds much more to it. When I was just NG and worked in IT; it was so much easier and less stressful.

                          A Soldier on AD will have varied duties. Some train on a daily basis and most work in actual jobs. An AD infantry officer will have a different tale than an AD cook who has to report at 0400 everyday.

                          We all know basic and AIT is not the real Army. I just have issues from people who never served as a true AD Soldier trying to act like they know what it is about.

                          Personally, I rather work out on my own time than group PT. Also, in my early years, I had to deal with harsh NCOs screaming at me and telling me what to do all the time. That is non-existant in part-time service. Plus, the benefits from AD service is unparalleled. Also, when you wrote that you watched your relatives that were AD; were you ever with them at their place of duty for a duration of time to make that opinion?
                          Last edited by Chief Kemosabe; May 2nd, 2013, 08:42 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Worthless?

                            Originally posted by Chief Kemosabe View Post
                            First An ROTC assignment is considered sham, so I wouldn't gauge your AD opinion on it. Also, I doubt in 20 years that ROTC instructor had it easy for all those years. Plus, AD Soldiers spend an average of 13 hours a day at their unit. And we do not get overtime. Look at the work and stress of Drill Sergeant and recruiter.

                            I spent over a decade doing civilian IT working at places like the UN and now do it in the Army. Doing IT and playing Soldier full-time at the same time adds much more to it. When I was just NG and worked in IT; it was so much easier and less stressful.

                            A Soldier on AD will have varied duties. Some train on a daily basis and most work in actual jobs. An AD infantry officer will have a different tale than an AD cook who has to report at 0400 everyday.

                            We all know basic and AIT is not the real Army. I just have issues from people who never served as a true AD Soldier trying to act like they know what it is about.

                            Personally, I rather work out on my own time than group PT. Also, in my early years, I had to deal with harsh NCOs screaming at me and telling me what to do all the time. That is non-existant in part-time service. Plus, the benefits from AD service is unparalleled. Also, when you wrote that you watched your relatives that were AD; were you ever with them at their place of duty for a duration of time to make that opinion?
                            Was I with them 24-7-365? No. But in over 20 years of following various relatives for short periods of time (weeks) I couldn't see where the day-to-day Army was anything that would push me to alcoholism or suicide. Doesn't matter whether an ROTC job is a 'sham'. I've watched veterans that came in thinking they could run students like they run subordinate soldiers. Didn't work.

                            You have middle to upper middle class schools where you could easily pull a 8 to 3. And then you have high intensity, inner city schools full of 'at risk' teens that require 13 hour days, 6 days and sometimes 7 days a week (yes I've slept in my classroom at times)--that's why the average lifespan of a new teacher is 2 to 4 years before they break down. Not only do teachers not get overtime we take CUTS in pay and/or get paid salaries that are 5 to 10 years behind cost of living, though we are among the most educated workforce in the country.

                            I've seen what Drill Sergeants do on a daily basis. Except for uniforms I do the same thing everyday and more.

                            I hear where you're coming from, though.

                            But I guess I'm an exception to the rule. In college I was happily sweating in 150 degree heat working at a cement factory while the other kids were complaining about doing workstudy at the check-in desk at the AC cooled rec center stocked with Gatorade machines on campus. I also see where you're coming from about guard soldiers. I have an in-law in the Guard that is an Iraq and Afghanistan vet. He sleeps on his grandmother's couch (do I need to say more?). I could just say personally that being a day-to-day active duty soldier would be a piece of cake for me.
                            Last edited by VICEROY06; May 2nd, 2013, 09:23 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Worthless?

                              Originally posted by VICEROY06 View Post
                              Was I with them 24-7-365? No. But in over 20 years of following various relatives for short periods of time (weeks) I couldn't see where the day-to-day Army was anything that would push me to alcoholism or suicide. Doesn't matter whether an ROTC job is a 'sham'. I've watched veterans that came in thinking they could run students like they run subordinate soldiers. Didn't work.

                              You have middle to upper middle class schools where you could easily pull a 8 to 3. And then you have high intensity, inner city schools full of 'at risk' teens that require 13 hour days, 6 days and sometimes 7 days a week (yes I've slept in my classroom at times)--that's why the average lifespan of a new teacher is 2 to 4 years before they break down. Not only do teachers not get overtime we take CUTS in pay and/or get paid salaries that are 5 to 10 years behind cost of living, though we are among the most educated workforce in the country.

                              I've seen what Drill Sergeants do on a daily basis. Except for uniforms I do the same thing everyday and more.

                              I hear where you're coming from, though.

                              But I guess I'm an exception to the rule. In college I was happily sweating in 150 degree heat working at a cement factory while the other kids were complaining about doing workstudy at the check-in desk at the AC cooled rec center stocked with Gatorade machines on campus. I also see where you're coming from about guard soldiers. I have an in-law in the Guard that is an Iraq and Afghanistan vet. He sleeps on his grandmother's couch (do I need to say more?). I could just say personally that being a day-to-day active duty soldier would be a piece of cake for me.
                              I understand the points that you are making and let us say that we see things differently in a few areas. The majority of my military service has been active and I spent 10 years in the Guard/Reserves that combined with 10 years of civilian sector experience so I got a good feel of what I am trying to explain. In addition, I have more federal service with a year with the US Border Patrol.

                              I am not negating that serving in the NG is a piece of cake nor putting it down but it's nowhere equitable to what active-duty Soldiers do on a daily basis and those reasons are obvious without explaining. I do think for serving in the NG/RA components; you get benefits that are unparalleled to any other part-time job for the amount of commitment you are bearing.

                              But yes, we are the exceptions to the rule. I am 47 years old and been working hard since I was 15. I am looking forward to the retirement that one receives during an active career. Plus, my spouse will receive benefits under the 20/20/20 rule. In a few years, I will be living somewhere peace and quiet.

                              Also, I come from the public school system in New York City and well aware of the hell that teachers go through. But Drills have dealt with suicides in the wee hours of the night and have gotten killed at the rifle and grenade range due to crazy trainees. Teachers do not have to go to war (unless they are in the reserve components )And yes, your experiences show that you will have no problem adapting to active military service.
                              Last edited by Chief Kemosabe; May 2nd, 2013, 10:05 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Worthless?

                                Originally posted by Chief Kemosabe View Post
                                I disagree because I have been on serving on active duty blah blah blah
                                I've been active duty and it ain't that hard. I work less now mobilized on a BN/BDE staff then I did working a full time job and being a commander. The real difference is I don't get $100+k a year or retire at 20.

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