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  • I have a question?

    My friend is in the Wisconsin National Guard, we had a drud test this weekend, he came to me after drill and told me that last week on a friday night he went out to a party and got really drunk, then smoked pot, his/my question is what will happen to him will he be discharged or is there some kind of counciling, he does not want to be discharged, he is a specialist

  • #2
    Re: I have a question?

    I did chuckle at "My friend". Just is hillariously cliche, even if in this case it's true.

    In any event, "your friend" choose not to self disclose prior to the annoucement of the test. It shouldn't be long to find out if he "peed hot" or not.

    What happens after that is somewhat State and Commander dependant.

    Anything else we post on here will all be ancedotal, although reduction in grade and mandatory counselling is not uncommon for the first event regarding junior enlisted soldiers.

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    • #3
      Re: I have a question?

      thank you for you input.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: I have a question?

        Originally posted by Mongoose772 View Post
        reduction in grade
        Even though we have recently learned that this is not authorized....it will most likely happen anyways.

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        • #5
          Re: I have a question?

          I have said it before and will say it again, NO ONE ON THE INTERNET HAS " A FRIEND "

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: I have a question?

            Originally posted by ParalegalNCO1 View Post
            Even though we have recently learned that this is not authorized....it will most likely happen anyways.
            I'm on a mission to determine the appropriate action for this situation.

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            • #7
              Re: I have a question?

              Originally posted by Mongoose772 View Post
              I'm on a mission to determine the appropriate action for this situation.
              Thats an easy one.

              1. Mandatory initiation of a separation action.

              2. If the leaders did their job and Joe Snuffy was counseled properly when he was late, un shaven, out of uniform, and so forth....you now have grounds for an administrative reduction for inefficiency. Problem is, as we know...no one takes the time to do that stuff anymore; and inefficiency can't be used for a single act of misconduct...so do counselings!

              In reality, the regs are meant to get rid of, not demote for this type of situation. There is no real reason to demote someone if we will be sending them on their way to civilian life.

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              • #8
                Re: I have a question?

                Para, can you send me some regulatory guidance on this? If you have a chance.

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                • #9
                  Re: I have a question?

                  Originally posted by Mongoose772 View Post
                  Para, can you send me some regulatory guidance on this? If you have a chance.
                  All the reductions are covered under AR 600-8-19 Chapter 10. 10-5 is where it talks about reduction for inefficiency.

                  If you reference 10-3, you will see the requirement of a civilian court conviction as the first rule under misconduct....for some reason commanders everywhere ignore it.

                  10–3. Rules
                  a. A Soldier convicted by a civil court (domestic or foreign) or adjudged a juvenile offender by a civil court (domestic or foreign) will be reduced or considered for reduction according to table 10–2, below. Juvenile offender includes adjudication as a juvenile delinquent, wayward minor, or youthful offender.


                  The separation piece is complex in that many different regs could come into play depending on what info you were looking for and the status of the Soldier. For traditional drilling Guardsman in Title 32 the relevant sentence is this, found in AR 600-85 Chapter 15.....

                  a. The ARNG Soldiers identified as illegal drug users will be simultaneously:
                  (2) Processed for administrative separation within 45 days of receipt of the verified positive drug test.

                  There is also a withholding policy from the under secretary of the Army that further restricts the discretion in certain situations to only a General Officer. This memo, while it mentions the Guard, is really only relevant to Title 10, due to the fact that in Title 32 a General Officer (The TAG) is the only separation authority for any separation.
                  Last edited by ParalegalNCO1; July 16th, 2012, 09:30 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Re: I have a question?

                    Dam, you're good.

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                    • #11
                      Re: I have a question?

                      Originally posted by Mongoose772 View Post
                      Dam, you're good.
                      I know. I just added another line to that as well, so read it again from my last edit.

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                      • #12
                        Re: I have a question?

                        15–11. Policy
                        Illegal drug use is misconduct and the abuse of alcohol or the use of illicit drugs by both military and civilian
                        personnel is inconsistent with the standards of performance, discipline, and readiness necessary to accomplish the
                        Army’s mission.
                        a. The ARNG Soldiers identified as illegal drug users will be simultaneously:
                        (1) Counseled by the unit commander for possible enrollment in a state-certified, community-based alcohol or other
                        drug counseling and rehabilitation service within 45 days of verified positive drug test.
                        (2) Processed for administrative separation within 45 days of receipt of the verified positive drug test. Soldiers may
                        be considered for disciplinary action prior to separation.
                        There doesn't seem to be much room for "wiggle room" in that.
                        I hope the OP's friend's commander doesn't read this forum.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: I have a question?

                          Originally posted by Mongoose772 View Post
                          15–11. Policy
                          Illegal drug use is misconduct and the abuse of alcohol or the use of illicit drugs by both military and civilian
                          personnel is inconsistent with the standards of performance, discipline, and readiness necessary to accomplish the
                          Army’s mission.
                          a. The ARNG Soldiers identified as illegal drug users will be simultaneously:
                          (1) Counseled by the unit commander for possible enrollment in a state-certified, community-based alcohol or other
                          drug counseling and rehabilitation service within 45 days of verified positive drug test.
                          (2) Processed for administrative separation within 45 days of receipt of the verified positive drug test. Soldiers may
                          be considered for disciplinary action prior to separation.
                          There doesn't seem to be much room for "wiggle room" in that.
                          I hope the OP's friend's commander doesn't read this forum.
                          Correct...but keep in mind that "processed for separation" and being separated is not the same. There are things, drugs being one of them, where the lower level commander MUST initiate the process with a recommendation. The separation authority can still retain the soldier....it happens all the time.

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                          • #14
                            Re: I have a question?

                            Facinating. I learn new things on here all the time. So, when a soldier has a positive drug screen, but the Commander wants to essentially keep them, they process with a recommendation ultimately NOT to separate? I just had a kid in my platoon self admit prior to the notification of a 100% drug screen. Ironically, after admitting it, he actually came back negative.

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                            • #15
                              Re: I have a question?

                              Originally posted by Mongoose772 View Post
                              Facinating. I learn new things on here all the time. So, when a soldier has a positive drug screen, but the Commander wants to essentially keep them, they process with a recommendation ultimately NOT to separate?
                              That is correct. Although the separation authority is not bound by the recommendations. They are just that, recommendations. Funny enough, this is also supposed to be done to Soldiers who fail two consecutive APFTS....when was the last time you saw that one?

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