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  • #16
    Re: Counseling statement??

    Originally posted by ParalegalNCO1 View Post
    For failing "A" APFT, No.

    For failing two consecutive APFT's; it is a requirement to initiate a separation packet. Note that this does not mean separation. It means the decision making process has been started and it is up to the separation authority (TAG) to decide what to do. Unfortuantly in the Guard, they dork this up all the time.

    A counseling statement is supposed to be to direct a plan of corrective action. It is supposed to have a before, what to do, and what was the result type sequence. Sending it in the mail is pointless, retarded, and defeats the purpose. This does not meet the requirements for separation found in the regulation covering mandatory counseling and rehabilitation.

    Furthermore, I would love to know what authority they plan on using for a reduction, and if they would actually do the process. I am not saying it can't be done, I am saying they will do it wrong, they already have.

    I continually use this example for reductions when I give a brief.......

    I would love it if one day the Commander just came into the room and said "SSG Snuffy, you did freaking outstanding today. I just promoted you to SFC." We all know it doesn't work that way, there are boards, promotion point worksheets, timelines, things the soldier has to acknowledge...basically I am saying it doesn't just "happen". Soooo, why in the world units continually think they can just say "SSG Snuffy, I don't like the way you look, you are now a SGT" is absolutly beyond me. As I just said, it doesn't just "Happen". There is a process. A process they never want to do.

    My favorite one is an administrative reduction for misconduct. With the exception of a conviction by a CIVILIAN court, and only that exception, a reduction for misconduct absolutley, 100%, positvely...DOES NOT EXIST. In any way shape or form. But, they do it all the time. They call the E-4 who cuts orders and it just "happens".

    So frustrating.
    You know more about this stuff than I do, but I've seen soldiers reduced for failing a urinalysis.

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    • #17
      Re: Counseling statement??

      Originally posted by Polo08816 View Post
      You know more about this stuff than I do, but I've seen soldiers reduced for failing a urinalysis.
      Oh...AS HAVE I. And I am telling you that you can read AR 600-8-19 Chapter 10 every day for the rest of your life and you will never find any authority that authorizes a reduction for a one time uranaysis failure. There are only a few categories.......

      Misconduct = Civilian court conviction.
      Inefficiency = A PATTERN of issues, (i.e. more then one).
      Unsat Participation = Not coming to drill.
      Voluntary = Hopefully I don't have to explain this one.
      Failure to complete school = Failing NCOES and other courses of the like.

      So where does the one time dope smoker fall......he doesn't It's one of those things that just "happens".
      Last edited by ParalegalNCO1; February 24th, 2012, 01:56 PM.

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      • #18
        Re: Counseling statement??

        If I'm not mistaken, Alabama's state policy is separation for a one-time drug test failure. That seems even more severe than reduction to me.

        http://www.alabamacounterdrug.com/commandersMOI.htm
        Granted, it's not "written" anywhere, but the packet sent to 62nd Troop Command has all the forms pre-filled for "separation" rather than "retention." There's a retention recommendation you can send in as an optino, but sending in the discharge paperwork is mandatory.
        Last edited by Lance13A; February 26th, 2012, 09:58 AM.

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        • #19
          Re: Counseling statement??

          For a drug test, a discharge packet must be initiated. Rentention "can" be recommended for E4 and below (1st offense), but that doesn't mean they will get to stay. So the reason probably most people don't fight the reduction(right or wrong) when they pop hot is because they are probably just happy they aren't getting discharged and don't want to stir up any more issues.

          Ok...we have digressed...back to the PT counseling

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