JAG Officer

[JVW]

Can anyone provide me information regarding service in the Guard as a JAG officer. What does the training consist of, what is the length of service committment, and what duties can a new JAG officer expect to perform during monthly drills, etc.

[WJH]

All Judge Advocates (Active Duty, Reserve and NG) go through the same initial entry training and have an inital 8 year military service commitment. This commitment can fulfilled through active duty service, by being a "drilling" reserve or national guard member or by serving in the IRR.

JAG training begins with 12 days of in-processing and orientation at Ft. Lee, VA. This is followed 10 1/2 weeks of instruction at the Judge Advocate General's School (TJAGLCS) in Charlottesville, VA. This training is mainly legal course work in the classroom, but you will do regular PT and "Army" training. After TJAGLCS, you attend 4 weeks of the Direct Commissioned Officer Course (DCO). After DCO there is an additional 6 weeks of the Basic Officer Leadership Course (BOLC) which is attended by all newly commissioned officers regarless of branch. As of right now, reservists and national guard JAGs do not attend BOLC (this may change though).

In some cases, reserve and national guard officers may be able to defer the DCO course and just complete their initial 12 weeks (this requires a wavier though).

As far as what you do during battle assembly (a.k.a. drill), it just depends on what position you're assigned to. Judge advocates perform legal assistance (i.e. writing wills, powers of attorney), military justice (courts martial, non-judicial **********, administrative separations, trial defense), fiscal law (who can spend what money and for what purpose), operational law and advising commanders(law of war, rules of engagement) to name just a few. It's likely that if you join a unit you would be assigned to a Staff Judge Advocate's Office where you would get a little taste of everything while you're mentored by more experienced JAGs.

I hope this helps. For more information check out the Judge Advocate Recruiting website at https://www.jagcnet.army.mil/8525724A00752E60/(JAGCNETDocID)/HOME?OPENDOCUMENT

[JVW]

WJH, that's helpful, thanks. It sounds as though you know of what you speak - are you JAG? Also, do you know whether all of the training is consecutive - that's a lot of time off work.

[MaineLawyer]

I just completed Judge Advocate Officer Basic Course. (172d class). The previous answer is correct. If you have any specific quesitons, please send me a message.

[matthew.ritchie]

WJH, that's helpful, thanks. It sounds as though you know of what you speak - are you JAG? Also, do you know whether all of the training is consecutive - that's a lot of time off work.

It is possible to break up the training, but I recommend knocking it all out at once. Don't pull the band-aid off one hair at a time, and prolong the agony. You'll have several months in advance to prepare your employer. Liken it to having an employee who is pregnant, or undergoing chemotherapy -- you need several weeks of unpaid leave to handle a personal issue, then return.

If you have prior military service, you can request waiver for the four weeks of DCO ("knife and fork school" ).

[JVW]

I just completed Judge Advocate Officer Basic Course. (172d class). The previous answer is correct. If you have any specific quesitons, please send me a message.

MaineLawyer, Just sent you a message. I look forward to your reply.

[JVW]

It is possible to break up the training, but I recommend knocking it all out at once. Don't pull the band-aid off one hair at a time, and prolong the agony. You'll have several months in advance to prepare your employer. Liken it to having an employee who is pregnant, or undergoing chemotherapy -- you need several weeks of unpaid leave to handle a personal issue, then return.

If you have prior military service, you can request waiver for the four weeks of DCO ("knife and fork school" ).

The officer strength manager tells me that i need to take the ASVAB test. That doesn't sound right - I have a law degree and have been practicing for 10 years. Does anyone know whether ASVAB is required for JAG?

[matthew.ritchie]

The officer strength manager tells me that i need to take the ASVAB test. That doesn't sound right - I have a law degree and have been practicing for 10 years. Does anyone know whether ASVAB is required for JAG?

The ASVAB is only required for enlistment. It would be a waste of time. If he's confused, get him to contact his OSAC rep for guidance, or he can contact me directly on email.

[WJH]

Yes, JVW, I am a JAG. I was a directly commissioned into the reserves about 5 and a half years ago. I agree with MAJ Ritchie's recommendation of completing all of your training in one lump. It may be difficult to be away from your practice for that long (particularly if you're in solo practice) but I think you'll be glad to have knocked it out.

[Gentoo]

Glad to see so many Jags on this board.

Maybe someone can answer this for me.

I am entering law school this fall, and am considering the SMP program while in law school. I am non prior service. What I wonder is, what will my rank be upon my commissioning, assuming I enter the JAG corp? Documentation here (https://www.jagcnet.army.mil/jagcnetinternet/homepages/ac/newjaro.nsf/(JAGCNetDocID)/030E09458BF60551852572DB006DE59E/$FILE/FrequentlyAskedQuestions(May07).pdf) from JAGCNet (page 5 question 19) indicates JAG enter as O-2, then normally promote to O-3 after completion of training.

Does my participation in SMP affect that in any way?

[MaineLawyer]

I split DCO and OBC. The unit needed me and it was easier on my family to go for the 12 weeks and then DCO in February. Three of us in the reserve component split the training. Please remember, if you do not complete your training by Oct 08, you will do BOLC II as well.

[strohs]

I'm in the process of obtaining my BSN in Criminal Justice with the intention of getting my Masters afterward. Would that be sufficient for JAG, or must you get a law degree (honestly, I don't want to be a lawyer per se)?
:confused:

[matthew.ritchie]

Glad to see so many Jags on this board.

Maybe someone can answer this for me.

I am entering law school this fall, and am considering the SMP program while in law school. I am non prior service. What I wonder is, what will my rank be upon my commissioning, assuming I enter the JAG corp? Documentation here (https://www.jagcnet.army.mil/jagcnetinternet/homepages/ac/newjaro.nsf/(JAGCNetDocID)/030E09458BF60551852572DB006DE59E/$FILE/FrequentlyAskedQuestions(May07).pdf) from JAGCNet (page 5 question 19) indicates JAG enter as O-2, then normally promote to O-3 after completion of training.

Does my participation in SMP affect that in any way?

Your SMP service (any enlisted service, for that matter) has no relevance on your initial appointment grade as a JAG. Your SMP years do count for pay and retirement. Individuals with years of experience as a lawyer may obtain constructive credit for a higher grade at initial appointment, but if you're in law school right now, then that's not you.

Please note that you'll commission as a 2LT from ROTC in a basic branch, and you'll need to apply for JAG when you meet all qualifications (i.e., bar membership). You might just stay basic branch, and switch to JAG later in life.

[matthew.ritchie]

I'm in the process of obtaining my BSN in Criminal Justice with the intention of getting my Masters afterward. Would that be sufficient for JAG, or must you get a law degree (honestly, I don't want to be a lawyer per se)?
:confused:

In order to serve in JAG branch, you need a JD from an accredited law school, as well as bar membership (any State).

[strohs]

Is there still a way to work with JAG and not necessarily be a lawyer? What about paralegal?

[matthew.ritchie]

Is there still a way to work with JAG and not necessarily be a lawyer? What about paralegal?

You are certainly welcome to enlist as a 27D. That has no degree requirement.

[badgerlaw11]

I’m a second year law student and I am interested in joining the National Guard Jag Corp after I graduate. I have a couple questions about the application process and working in the guard generally which I am wondering if someone could answer.

1. I have a dislocated elbow and I was medically disqualified from enlisting in the Army after I graduated form high school. Assuming I applied for the guard and had a similar problem with the physical, how likely would it be for me to get a waiver and be allowed to enlist anyway? (I think I am in good physical shape otherwise, and I would be willing to do whatever is possible to demonstrate it)
2. Is the application process for the National Guard Jag Corp separate from the Army Jag process generally, and if so, how does the national guard process work? (i.e. who do I contact to apply, when is the best time to apply, and what materials will I be asked for?)
3. Is there any course work that I could take that would be particularly helpful or attractive to the Guard? Is there any volunteer work that I could do to make my application stand out?
4. If I were able to enlist in the National Guard Jag, would I qualify for any assistance paying off my school loans?

That’s pretty much all I have for now, thanks a lot for bearing with me and answering my questions.

[WIBecky74]

Sorry I dont have any answers but if you need contacts for Wisconsin I can find names for you.

[49thadband]

so, I'm just reading and thinking about this. Say a kid enlisted in the guard as a paralegal, right after high school, used G.I. bill, finished a degree in whatever, then went to law school. so he could do ROTC during law school, but he could only get a scholly for 2 years, correct?

1. So, could he be SMP, participate in ROTC and receive the stipend for the entire time?(3 years, I think)

2. If not, I'm guessing the best two years to choose to be in ROTC would be the last two years, because of time commitments?

3. Assuming he used up his G.I. bill for B.S., could he get student loans for the first year of law school, then be able to use SLRP to pay them back after commissioning in JAG after ROTC?

[matthew.ritchie]

I’m a second year law student and I am interested in joining the National Guard Jag Corp after I graduate. I have a couple questions about the application process and working in the guard generally which I am wondering if someone could answer.

1. I have a dislocated elbow and I was medically disqualified from enlisting in the Army after I graduated form high school. Assuming I applied for the guard and had a similar problem with the physical, how likely would it be for me to get a waiver and be allowed to enlist anyway? (I think I am in good physical shape otherwise, and I would be willing to do whatever is possible to demonstrate it)
2. Is the application process for the National Guard Jag Corp separate from the Army Jag process generally, and if so, how does the national guard process work? (i.e. who do I contact to apply, when is the best time to apply, and what materials will I be asked for?)
3. Is there any course work that I could take that would be particularly helpful or attractive to the Guard? Is there any volunteer work that I could do to make my application stand out?
4. If I were able to enlist in the National Guard Jag, would I qualify for any assistance paying off my school loans?

That’s pretty much all I have for now, thanks a lot for bearing with me and answering my questions.

1. If that's all that's wrong medically, I think that's manageable.
2. The application process is largely the same. The good news is that you don't need to be an expert on it, because your State has an Officer Strength Manager (OSM) whose job is to be the expert on the packet process. Work with your OSM. It's a time consuming process, and you can't formally apply until you have your JD and bar membership, although you can prepare much of the packet ahead of time and reduce your total wait time.
3. The best thing you can do is enlist now, and gain experience and background.
4. The incentives change constantly, but traditionally loan repayment is an incentive only for enlisted service, not for officer service. You may find it advantageous to serve enlisted for a few years to take advantage of loan repayment, and then swtich to JAG officer service later. You can exercise that option later, as long as your remain qualified.

Look at these messages for additional background:
http://www.nationalguard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14411
http://www.nationalguard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5145

[Mangofish26]

I recently visited the TN NG's Recruiter's office. I just graduated with a JD and will soon be taking the bar. I was told JAG was not a guarantee and I should join as an enlisted E-4 or E-5 and then go thru OCS. TN doesn't do direct commission nor can you go thru the OCS without basic training. While in OCS I would choose from 3 branches I would be interested in and list JAG as 1 of the 3. I would need to take the ASVAB and score 110 minimum. I was told by going in as an enlisted then OCS (which is guaranteed) I would get $50K for student loans.

My questions are - does this sound kosher? Can you transfer to the JAG from another branch? I am a female w/o any military experience so any info would be great.

[RedLeg]

Your recruiter is probably thinking of basic branch officers, in which he'd be correct.

[matthew.ritchie]

I recently visited the TN NG's Recruiter's office. I just graduated with a JD and will soon be taking the bar. I was told JAG was not a guarantee and I should join as an enlisted E-4 or E-5 and then go thru OCS. TN doesn't do direct commission nor can you go thru the OCS without basic training. While in OCS I would choose from 3 branches I would be interested in and list JAG as 1 of the 3. I would need to take the ASVAB and score 110 minimum. I was told by going in as an enlisted then OCS (which is guaranteed) I would get $50K for student loans.

My questions are - does this sound kosher? Can you transfer to the JAG from another branch? I am a female w/o any military experience so any info would be great.

Your recruiter is giving you the right answer to the wrong question. Politely but firmly ask him to connect you with the State's Officer Strength Manager (OSM).

[Diesel]

I am a TN National Guard officer branched infantry; I also have a JD and have considered switching to JAG at some point - once sleeping in the mud and playing with guns stops being fun. Which will probably be never.

Regardless ... you're getting some bad information. TN can and does do direct commissions - although rarely. You will NOT "choose three branches" if you go through OCS - once you finish OCS, you'll be responsible for finding a slot (in other words, a unit and a job and a place to drill each month), and you will branch to fit that slot. I wanted infantry - so I had to go find a slot for an infantry officer. It can be some work.

HOWEVER, JAG is different. You need to be set on a specific path towards that goal, which may or may not include OCS. Nothing wrong with going my route, but if you just want to be a JAG officer there are sure easier ways; OCS is brutal.

As for the $50k for student loans? Well ... how can I put this gently? Be skeptical. Expect nothing. I came into the Guard to serve as an infantry officer and to deploy to a combat zone. I was promised all sorts of things! Bonuses! Hooah (read: fun!) schools, like air assault and airborne! And none of that happened. Or is likely to, anytime soon. Which is fine, because all the free stuff they promise isn't why I joined, or why anyone should. You join to serve, and to do some interesting things, and play with guns ... and I got to do plenty of that.

Could the SLRP actually come through with that $50k? Maybe. I've been working on that myself, and have a recruiter who swears it can be done, even for those of us who are already commissioned. But personally, I expect nothing. You usually end up happier that way. (But boy would I love to be wrong on this one!)

As LTC Ritchie says, you need to be dealing directly with an officer strength manager. If you message me, I can put you directly in touch.

Note: our state is just about out of money at the moment. The funding situation always seems to be either feast or famine, and right now its definitely a starvation period. So you may not have much luck at the moment, with any of what you're trying to do. That doesn't mean you can't do it next year, though. The financial mysteries of the Guard are deep and dark and spooky.

Good luck to you.

[a224932]

Hey Diesel,

How long have you had your JD? What law school? You practicing? Just graduated law school two days ago and prepping for the Bar. Thought about going NG as a back-door to JAG, but still undecided.