age limit to serve

[servemycountry2]

I am 44 years young, hold a Bachelors degree, and a member of the Coast Guard Auxiliary. I am aware of the shortage in the Military. Trying to enlist is not an option because of the age limit. I just want to serve my country, and greatly feel that I am being held back due to my age. The military should raise the age.

[g-head]

I agree. If an idividual is in superior physical condition with high ambitions it should be up to the recruiter to allow any age. I know some guys in their 50's that can run circles around me. :o

[andrew.tischner]

ok Coast Guard Auxiliary? is that a part of the coast guard like reserves? did you enlist into it? Again the age was just increased to 41, 364 days, an increase of 2 years. Im sorry you feel that way but the army cannot just enlist a whole bunch of Non prior service that are over 40, it does not make sense in the whole realm of things.
Sorry I do not think the army or the army national guard will increase the age any higher anytime soon.

[servemycountry2]

The Coast Guard Auxiliary is a civilian volunteer, non-police, and non-paid part of the Coast Guard.

When you mentioned that it doesn't make sense to let people in their 40's enlist, are you saying that we are not fit nor intelligent enough to learn how to fight or to serve our country? That is crazy! Stength comes in numbers, not age. I heard that there is not enough young ones who want to enlist. So the troops are getting smaller and smaller. One day you will be under attack and out numbered, then what will you do? :confused:

[Lwolfnky]

I am 31 years old and am looking at the possibility of joining the guard. My current boss is in the Army Reserves and is pushing that I look there for an opportunity. He is a full bird Col. What benefits are there in the Guard as opposed to the Reserves??

How can I help convince my wife that this is a good choice for me??

Thanks again!!

[g-head]

.

When you mentioned that it doesn't make sense to let people in their 40's enlist, are you saying that we are not fit nor intelligent enough to learn how to fight or to serve our country? That is crazy! Stength comes in numbers, not age. I heard that there is not enough young ones who want to enlist. So the troops are getting smaller and smaller. One day you will be under attack and out numbered, then what will you do? :confused:


I don't think he was trying to be offensive. I think he meant that it wouldn't make sense because if you enlist a 40 something year old then they would have to pass up a younger recruit to make room.

[andrew.tischner]

The "sense" part is this, or how i think, lets just say they push the age to 45, now you enlist into the ARNG, lets just say you dont have college now you are a 45 year old private E-1. To get a full 20 years you would have to serve to 65... hold up though see you cannot stay in the military to age 65. 62 is the max age. So to get a full pension you wouldnt be able to stay. Thats why I personaly think its unpratacle. As a recruiter do i wish it was raised ? Sure there are plenty of older men and woman that want to serve now at 40 plus. But all in all the age limit is 41 and 364 days, and i have learned from my short stint in the military, it does not matter how much you might want something the army just does not like change.

[servemycountry2]

I am 31 years old and am looking at the possibility of joining the guard. My current boss is in the Army Reserves and is pushing that I look there for an opportunity. He is a full bird Col. What benefits are there in the Guard as opposed to the Reserves??

How can I help convince my wife that this is a good choice for me??

Thanks again!!

Since my position is volunteer, I do not receive pay nor benefits. I suggest that you call a recruiter for the answers to your questions. Maybe you should ask your wife to take part in your meetings with the recruiter, and both go over the information. Just a suggestion.

[servemycountry2]

I can see everyones point. I also feel that a younger recruit should not be turned down, we should be used as back-up. For my understanding is that the recruitement centers are having a difficult time to get younger people to enlist. I also see that this war is getting larger, and we only have so many troops to go around.

[andrew.tischner]

Again the point is the age limit is not going to get raised again anytime soon. A 19 year old infantry soldier will on MOST cases out preform, out move, out run, out last a 45 year old. It is fact. The army cannot make a 1 by 1 judgement per person. I cannot talk for the army or what they think but that is what I think they think. If that makes any sense.

[old19D]

I am 44 years young, hold a Bachelors degree, and a member of the Coast Guard Auxiliary.

Since no one has mentioned it, did you know that the
age limit goes up if you have previous military time? So
if you were in for at least 2 years when you were a lad,
you might still be able to serve.

Just throwing it out there ...

[servemycountry2]

I understand what you are telling me, though look at the tennis player Martina Navratilova. She is almost 50, and can out perform tennis players half her age or better on the court. How about the kids/teenagers that only know how to move their fingers on their video games and are overweight? It is too bad that our country's Government is against age discrimination only when it comes to civilian jobs, and it is different when it comes to the military. I think the Government needs to read its history books about how the US was started. Do you think that all the militia and minutemen where 40 and under [not]? The main thing is we won the war against the British and the United States was born. I feel that this is the main objective, and the age game is very petty.

[servemycountry2]

Just wanted to share an ecylopedia quote for age limit for militia:

The Militia Act of 1792 clarified whom the militia consists of; " Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, by the Captain or Commanding Officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside, and that within twelve months after the passing of this Act."(Wikipedia, pg1, 3).

Back in 1792, at least the Government had faith in a 44 year old.

[matthew.ritchie]

Don't take the age limit as a personal insult. There are several demographic reasons why the military has set age limits.

[servemycountry2]

I would be very interested in learning what those demographics are. I am not insulted about my age, I am just trying to represent to 40+ year olds that truly care and want to do something to protect our country and its citizens.

[matthew.ritchie]

These limits aren't about you personally, they are about population demographics. While you personally may be fit as a 20 year old, most over 40 folks aren't. As the average person ages, past age 40 a host of physical aliments and predispositions to ailments arise -- arthritis, macular degeneration, reduced cognitive speed, etc. From a strategic standpoint, it's a big risk to start someone in their military career at age 40+, when they face the most physically challenging part of their career. This sets up a host of medical and retirement liability issues, saddling future taxpayers with burdens to pay for the damage done to these older Soldiers. I'm vastly simplifying the situation, of course, but I hope you get the picture.

[servemycountry2]

I understand, though not all of us have those ailments. Besides most ailments do not arise till 50 or 60+. I guess when you become 40, then you better quit because you will become a very big burden to us tax payers (I am also one of those tax payers). Besides, some of those ailments can also arise in someone 20 and 30 years of age. Example: Arthritis can set into an area that has previously been injured at any age, and reduces cognitive speed as well.

Macular degeneration: "AMD is a leading cause of vision loss in Americans 60 years of age and older." (National Eye Institute, pg1, p2)

[andrew.tischner]

OK
servemycountry2

It seems to me that you are failing to see the point that i stated before, Yes there are many medical and physical things that happen to 40 year + people. Larger risk for these medical conditions, Larger liability, and the army will never do it on a per person basis over the age of 42, and if they increase the age past 42, which i do not see ever happening, then they do. You are trying to make an argument with people here that have no say in the regulations. The highest person that responds here is a Major when the people that decide this kind of regulations are 2 star or 3 star generals.

And I stated before why i do not see the them raising the age is because of forced retirement. You cannot stay in the military as a Enlisted Personal after the age of 62. That is fact , and regulation. That is the reason you must enter basic training before your 42nd birthday, so if the person does so choose he/she can do 20 years up to 62. someone that is 42 and 1 day cannot.

This is not age discrimitation, but the quote that you put in is discrimatory.

That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States,

We as the United states has evolved, we do now accept female and all other races that are not white.

Please Understand that you getting angry and upset at this will not help any situation. Insulting the government will not help. The age limit is 41 and 364 days. That is regulation and that is final. I am sorry that you cannot join.

[servemycountry2]

The only person that is getting very insulting is you. I hold very high regard for the United States, its government and the military. My father is also a highly decorated officer of the army. You better consider quitting when you turn 40+ so that you are not a large burden on us tax payers too. Before you start practicing medicine, I suggest you becom an MD first.

I get the point, though I do not have to agree with your opinions, and they are just that. Remember all it takes is one signature by the commander and chief.

[Rhughes]

I can understand your frustration with wanting to serve but I also understand the military's position. I am in my early forties luckily I am prior service and I am in better shape than I was when I was in my twenties but I have some health issues which most 20 somethings don't have so as I try and come back to serve I have to get 2 waviers. If they do not have a cut off it opens up a whole can of worms. And to boot I don't know a whole lot of late 30's or early 40's who can handle combat like a younger person. I know there a a lot who can but these are the exception not the rule.

You want to get mad at the government for age discrimination at least the military is willing to bump the max age up the Fed's refuse to look at any over 37 for Law Enforcement so it is not just with the military.

[WIBecky74]

I think I saw a question back there. What is the age limit for re enlisting. I'm just about 32, female in Wisconsin. Havent signed yet, being very thorough and asking tons of questions. This may differ state to state, but my boyfriend went with me to check out drill last weekend. He is a Vet. Four years in. Is 37. My Recruiter said the Guards would consider him 33 years old, 37 minus his four years of service. Like I said, might be a local thing, not sure if its Nation wide.
-Becky

[jules]

Just a couple of days ago I was told the National Guard would take prior service people up to the age of 52 - this came from a recruiter.

If social security can raise the age to be allowed to collect benifits, the military can raise the retirement age. They really should match anyway.

By the way, it is a medical fact that as people age, they get stronger, maybe not faster, but who can out run a bullet. Muscles get tougher with age and so do people. Older people have more to fight for; children, grandchildren, freedom, etc - they know more about what it is all about.

I believe we need older people and their experience and wisdom to guide the youngsters. Lets get our numbers up and be able to defend ourselves!

[TRUEBLUE4LIFE]

If it were up to me..your in. I think the age limit is 42.. but check with the recruiters here on the boards. They know for sure.

[Amazon]

What are the criteria for age limit waivers? I am 42 (female and single), in perfect health and three months away from graduation with a Masters in Global Management. I was born and raised in Germany and speak Germany fluently still. 20 years of finance and business management experience.

Wonder - is there a place for me in ANY of the services?

Feel free to email me.

G

[Jeff Chambliss]

Some of us are too old to run, so I guess we'd have to stand and fight. Maybe the military could use more old fellows. My Dad always said the old folks would have to fight if we went back to war. Now looks like we've got to fight the whole world, you'd think our government would be glad to get all the help it can get.

[Mogami]

Hi, The age limit is not about a 44 year old being able to perform their duties. It is because they could not complete 20 years of service and still perform their duties.

You must be able to coplete 20 years of service by age 55 to enlist. so if your 44 and had 9 or more years of service you could enlist.
(In National Guard)

I just recently enlisted in Ohio National Guard. I am 50 years old. (but I have 17 years prior service.)

[Mogami]

Hi, Here are current requirements for national Guard. (correction to my last post where I quote 55 as upper age limit to complete 20 years service)
Meet citizenship requirements
Are at least 17 and less than 36 years of age, or individuals that are 36 years of age and older must have sufficient prior service time to attain 20 years of qualifying service for retired pay prior to age 60
Non-high school graduates must obtain a high school diploma or GED certificate within one year after the date of enlistment.
Must meet the Army physical fitness standards
Must qualify for the MOS enlisting in

[sgtblack82]

Aside from the examples my recruiter brother is saying hear, the point is the age limit is 42, I totally respect your cander. If it was up to me anyone with a good ticker could join the military, you need janitors, secretaries, and if the body passes all physcial tests infantary men. However, uncle sam choose to keep those standards so go figuare. However, you are being patriotic by helping out with the coast guard auxilary, a older gentlemen I know actually helped patrol the harbors here after 9/11, and he was in the coast guard auxillary, and your monterary and voting help is also patriotic. So continue the good fight.

[rud1]

i have been monitoring this forum for the past year, especially this issue about age. i hope the dod monitors the site as well - i have never seen so much activity with regards to the age restrictions setup by the armed services. the army won't let you lead if you are 35 y/o + (officers) and they won't let you serve if you are 42 y/o+ (enlisted). if this is because of pension and retirement - these soldiers (old guys) should be allowed to retire with 1/4 pension or whatever is agreed upon at enlistment. as officers - the older guys seem to have a better grasp on this leaderhip thing from life experience - most officers come to ocs w/o having had a real job in the real world. i have seen emails in this forum from guys/gals who have grad school credentials and 10 plus years of real work/world exp. dod - if you are monitoring this site - get with the program. open up the ranks for those qualified physically and mentally to serve. a good portion of proud americans are being shutout and it is unfair and unconstitutional that they are being forced to serve in just the auxiliary and state militias.

[basoccermom]

I think that in the future the military may have to make exceptions to their age limits. As the amount of conflicts through out the world grows we need our young adults to step up and serve their contry but there may come a time in the not to distant future that we look to our slightly older (middle age) citizens for support. More than just cheering our young adults on as they head into conflict. World war II required a organized effort both on the battle front and on the home front.

Most people after 40 do not have the endurance or physical capacity of the 20 something adults but I sometimes wonder if the few of us 40+ that do might provide reinforcements/support and perhaps guidance for the majority.

Maybe our military should have opportunities for those who still are willing and able to serve their country.

[rud1]

Most people after 40 do not have the endurance or physical capacity of the 20 something adults but I sometimes wonder if the few of us 40+ that do might provide reinforcements/support and perhaps guidance for the majority.

Maybe our military should have opportunities for those who still are willing and able to serve their country.

Thanks basoccermom -

I'm still fighting to get into the Army - I'm 43 y/o - management graduate student from wharton who has been told i'm too old to lead and to old to follow. One day I will convince either my congressman, senator, the national guard bureau or the president to allow me in. Until then, I have been serving in my State Militia, but I find the training on the battalion/regimental level to be somewhat a waste of my time. If any recruiters (New York/Conn/New Jersey/Eastern PA) are wishing to assist me with this journey, please contact me by email - rud1@optonline.net.

Thanks again Basoccermom for some great points. I just hope someone with the power for change is listening.

[sgraven]

iam 52 prior Miltary just passed the medical and the asvab. Going into the ANG. i did 3 years active 6 years reserves. If i can do anyone can GO ARMY!!

[AbnMtn]

The only way the military can influence changes on the age cap is by recommending that our lawmakers in Congress change it. Most of the requirements and allowances for military service (except those allow by law) are covered under the 37 USC (United States Code) and the NDAA (National Defense Authorization Act). The Armed Forces can not change the laws. Only in rare ocassions the military is allowed to grant waivers for some of the enlistment criteria and even that may be capped (only a low percentage of the total enlistment pool is allowed). Unfortunately, age is one of those criteria not authorized to be waived.

Don't be confused about the 42 yrs. cap when you see postings of 49 yrs or 52 yrs old being allowed to enlist. Those people are prior service applicants and the time already served counts against their age. The 42 age cap does apply to them also. I've worked with prior service applicants who I could not enlist because the time served wasn't sufficient to overcme the age cap (example, a 47 yrs old with only 3 yrs of qualifiable service can not overcome the age cap regardless of the waivers that apply to him/her). Lets hope that someone is keeping their fingers on the pulse of issues like the age cap and change the age cap. A person who can perform the job and is fit enough to withstand the demanding environment in which the military may place them should be allowed to serve.

[gsimes]

The Army-National Guard says the reason 42 is the max age because if you are older you can't do 20 years therefore they can't offer retirement, I believe this argument doesnot hold water.{there are some other reasons but I believe there are or should be exceptions to those as well} I donot want nor ask for retirement. I sign a wavier, problem solved! Physical shape? better than most 20somethings that show up at boot camp.I read some recruiters say you slow down when you get old, just try to stay with me on a hike or run. I would not have any problem passing the medical. Mental piece of cake.The Army raised the age because they were having a problem maintaing a 33% retention rate, 65% of enlistees do not reenlist they use the college money, the bonus, then there gone. I do not need college money, I'm 53 yes 53 I could and would serve 6 years{everybody in the enlisted ranks has to get out at the same age anyway} the knowlege that I and others like me would be a great benefit to the Army-Guard.The criteria is already in place for the test's-physical-medical-mental-if you cant pass the test's it dosen't matter what your age is!!!!!!!!

[NightStalker14]

This forum really is jumping.

Have you guys that can't get into the military looked into CIA/NSA/FBI?

Check their respective sites, see if your degrees are ones they're looking for.

If you want to serve, there's ways besides the military.

[zaba]

At a time such as this, and when retirement ages are already at 65 and being increased soon, I don't understnd why it takes such effort to point out that the military should also do what is sensible and allow those who want to serve, serve.

I have read all the reasons. I don't understand how and why people try to apply logic to ageism. It is no different than racism. If someone can pass the stringent requirements and conditions, and is willing to sign away benefits that they would not be entitled to because they would not serve the pre-requisite number of years there can be no further justification other than bias that is preventing the raising or elimination of this age limit.

I have no doubt this limit will be changed, but a lot of folks who wanted to serve will be left out in the cold because by the time the age limit is pushed back further they will already have passed it.

[gsimes]

zaba you are after my own heart.as I read all of the comments about age in the military it seems there are a few who get offensive at the thought of someone 45,or someone like myself who is 53 and I know my physical and medical condition is an exception to some others my age.I believe the Army is neglecting or overlooking a valuable resourse by not letting those who will serve{and are capable and fit}and can serve.I recently had the wonderful oppertunity to be aboard the aircraft carrier USS.ENTERPRISE as a civilian. From Portugal to Norfolk 9 days crossing the Atlantic ocean,had the privileged to work with a few sailors and talk to many about there time in the military ,about 7 out of !0 said after there enlistment was up there gone,the comment I heard most often was get in get out use the GI Bill which is fine but it supplys the recuiter with a problem, one that could helped be solved by what I'm advocating.This was the Navy but I can't believe this branch of the service is any different than the other branches of the military.

gsimes

[tgpii]

I agree, I was at RSP and some of the Sergeants were **** us younger guys. I know 40 is the limit but try for a wavier.

[AbnMtn]

The fact is that the none of the Armed Forces (Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force, National Guard or Reserve) can change the age limit. The same Congress which is changing the age limit for Social Security, has the power to change the age requirements for military service.

I'm not trying to rationalize a need for the age cap. As I said before, if you're fit, then you should be allowed to serve. I'm a 48 yrs old who deployed to Afghanistan and I know what our age group is capable of accomplishing. I think those who can bring about the change (as in those in Congress) need to notice that if we are fit enough to have our "working age" extended and our "retirement age" prorated, then we should also be considered fit enough to serve our country.

[gsimes]

SFC Ted Marrero now were getting somewere, I know that Congress has to raise the age limit,this is were you and other recuiters that think the age issue needs changing.I knowyou can't change the law but we {I'm not the only one here } need you and your fellow recuiters if your willing to help, is start going up the chain of command {choosing those that support this line of thinking } after all it is Generals then Senators that will make the change in age , when you talk about age and service look at the congress and the senate some of those boy's are older than dirt. Somethihg like this needs to be started from the bottom up,sorry no disrespect but a private can't do any good here it's got to start with you guys,I'm trying to influence my senators,congress people,and govenor and anybody that can make a difference on my end. Please do me a big favor contact recutiers in my state of Floridia and get them involved in this forum, this forum needs more input from all over. Thanks for letting me bend your ear, am looking for your reply and hopefully lots of other recuiters. respectfully gsimes

[AbnMtn]

Age limits, among other things concerning applicants, are issues we discuss during our team meetings and drive up to the chain of command. This issue is a hot button that will have to be addressed.

[gsimes]

thanks for the reply do you think this will be addressed any time soon, sorry for sounding antcy but I'm not getting any younger but in the time being I will keep working out and waiting to hear some good news. please keep us posted were on the outside looking in.


gsimes


ps try to get more people if you can envolved on this forum, I honestly believe that people in my position can and will benifit the Army greatly.

[Iwannaserve]

I support our troops. I wish I could serve next to them. I want to reenlist RA, but the Army says I'm to old by 1 year and 10 months. I've been calling recruiters, but they say nothing can be done. You can get a waiver for the age cutoff. What can I do to help. I'm glad GSimes has brought this issue up. There are alot of able bodied men and women out there that want to reenlist. The Army should let those who are physically fit and mentally able to do so. Charlie

[gsimes]

I support our troops. I wish I could serve next to them. I want to reenlist RA, but the Army says I'm to old by 1 year and 10 months. I've been calling recruiters, but they say nothing can be done. You can get a waiver for the age cutoff. What can I do to help. I'm glad GSimes has brought this issue up. There are alot of able bodied men and women out there that want to reenlist. The Army should let those who are physically fit and mentally able to do so. Charlie
Thanks Charlie I was begining to wonder if anyone was paying any attention to this post,but here is what I'm doing,I've been told I have been starting fires,well I'm going to stir up some hornets nest's also.E-mail your adjutant General for the Nat.Guard in your state,e-mail senators,congress people,your governor,because this is going to be a political issue.Use plenty of facts especially about the military's retention troubles a lot of recuiters feel as we do and it is an issue that they talk about but its got to get up to the top of the command structure and they will be the ones to request a change or the creation of a wavier. I'm in favor of starting a national movement on this issue

[logcutter]

I can see you really want to serve, and I think thats great. Im 42 and just re-uped with the PA Gaurd. Im 42 but I had four years of service before. I would not give up just yet. If things continue the way they are the age limit could go up.

[gsimes]

I can see you really want to serve, and I think thats great. Im 42 and just re-uped with the PA Gaurd. Im 42 but I had four years of service before. I would not give up just yet. If things continue the way they are the age limit could go up.
Thanks, I have no intention of giving up, if its not worth fighting for its not worth having. I just went back and read over again many of the comments about us {old} guys wanting to serve in the Army or Guard. Physical condition you know, and I was wondering what in the sam hill is the difference between someone that is 50 years old with 10 years prior service getting back in and someone like myself who dosen't care about being able to do 20 years, being able to preform I guess. It must be if you have prior service you are somehow considered to be in better shape,can keep up and are not affected by the things that so hamper and keep us from being able to enlist.I am amazed by the lunicy that the Army will not use the potential that I and OTHERS like ME have to offer. gsimes:mad:

[WIBecky74]

This is just an assumption, but i'm thinking why prior service years allow someone over 42 to re enlist, is because they have years in and can retire earlier. Added bonus is they also know the physical aspect and can determine if their bodies can handle it. But thats just a bonus, not the reasoning behind it. I know its been mentioned in the past, but no one is saying someone over 42 cant handle it physically...it has more to do with retirement age. I enlisted this past year at 32, i've found some youngins are better equiped physically, and some arent.

[Iwannaserve]

Thanks gsimes for responding to my earlier thread. I am going to see what I can do on my end. I have been visiting several message boards to make the age limitation issue known. I wish the senators and congressmen would talk with the military brass about issues like this. I have prepared several letters to my local senators and congressmen regarding raising the age limit issue and they will be going out this week. In my letters, I questioned them on why they aren't raising the age limit when there are obviously so many people out there who want to serve, but are being shutout because the are "too old." I talked to several recruiters about it who have told me that there are waivers for every thing out there except age. I posted on the Go Army site and can't believe all the waivers that are being used to get people back into the Army. Keep the faith and press on.

[zaba]

The "sense" part is this, or how i think, lets just say they push the age to 45, now you enlist into the ARNG, lets just say you dont have college now you are a 45 year old private E-1. To get a full 20 years you would have to serve to 65... hold up though see you cannot stay in the military to age 65. 62 is the max age. So to get a full pension you wouldnt be able to stay. Thats why I personaly think its unpratacle. As a recruiter do i wish it was raised ? Sure there are plenty of older men and woman that want to serve now at 40 plus. But all in all the age limit is 41 and 364 days, and i have learned from my short stint in the military, it does not matter how much you might want something the army just does not like change.

This does not make sense. I read daily to see if congress has come to its senses and eliminated this bizarre rule. The logic that 40+ Americans are suddenly incapable begs the question of all the 40+ service men and women that are currently in uniform. And it isn't the years in uiform that makes the uniform wearer cpapable, it is the self-discipline and toughness. I am reading that the US military is even trying to recruit overseas using US citizenship as the reward for service. I don't think that is any smarter than eliminating this arbitrary age limit and letting qualifications decide who may or may not enter the service.

And the excuse of retirement being the reason is even worse. They can do rolling retirement up to a certain age(after changing the retirement age to 65 like they will be doing anyway to save Social Security from insolvence) and tell the rest of us who join after 45 that we will NOT be getting retirement. THERE, mjor problem solved. I dare say once in uniform we will do just as well with the other things our young men and women are struggling with.

[gsimes]

There seems to be some recuiters that are stuck on this retirement issue like they have not heard or read a single word we have written.I just wish the recuiters would let the Colonel;s and the Generals what is going on out here.FOR ONE MORE TIME THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO SERVE IN THE ARMY WHO ARE NOT REPETE ARE NOT CONCERNED WITH RETIREMENT.
gsimes

[gsimes]

These limits aren't about you personally, they are about population demographics. While you personally may be fit as a 20 year old, most over 40 folks aren't. As the average person ages, past age 40 a host of physical aliments and predispositions to ailments arise -- arthritis, macular degeneration, reduced cognitive speed, etc. From a strategic standpoint, it's a big risk to start someone in their military career at age 40+, when they face the most physically challenging part of their career. This sets up a host of medical and retirement liability issues, saddling future taxpayers with burdens to pay for the damage done to these older Soldiers. I'm vastly simplifying the situation, of course, but I hope you get the picture.
It is amazing to me the Army can deploy to a war zone a soldier who is in his mid fiftys{granted he's been in for a while} and his host of physical ailments and predispositions to ailments -arthritis, macular degeneration, reduced congnative speed dont seem to bother him or even come to light. Once you're in I guess being 50 is different than being 50 and trying to get in. Someone please try to explain this to me.
gsimes

[Iwannaserve]

A 40 something plus with major heatlh issues isn't going to be thinking about joining the Army. My position is that those men and women who want to reenlist are in shape or are willing to get in shape before enlistment. The military shouldn't discrimanate based on age as long as a person can pass all the physical and mental requirements. My first unit was a combat unit. I remember my Sgt. Major was 58 years old and just as fit as I was at 18. We jogged two miles a day, plus PT and he kept up with us counting cadence. If I have the chance of reenlisting at 48, I would go 11-x. I most definately could hold my own against anyone standing beside me. I see no difference with those who are still in the Army at 42+ and those out and wanting to reenlist. To me it sounds a little sterotypical to say "old people" "42+" all have medical problems such as osteoarthritis etc. I think this issue about age has to be reevaluated by the Armed Services Comittee and the top brass. At the very least have a trial program of taking ex-military 42+ to see what we can do given the chance. Press forward, support our troops.

[gsimes]

This forum really is jumping.

Have you guys that can't get into the military looked into CIA/NSA/FBI?

Check their respective sites, see if your degrees are ones they're looking for.

If you want to serve, there's ways besides the military.
Hey NightStalker14 try reading Joshua 14:7 thru 11 .To the point verse 11,And yet I am as strong this day that Moses sent me;as my strength was then,even so is my strength now,for war,both to go out and to come in.

CIA/NSA/FBI? NO SIR!!! Its the Nat.Guard or the ARMY,give me this day my mountian.
gsimes

[WIBecky74]

"ex military 42+" are being "taken" Prior service can re enlist with their service years taken into consideration. Example: 4 years service 42 plus four, that person can re enlist at forty-six...give or take, depending on exact months of service. And this is because with prior service, they can retire sooner than someone without that fours years prior service with the same age. At least thats my take at it.


A 40 something plus with major heatlh issues isn't going to be thinking about joining the Army. My position is that those men and women who want to reenlist are in shape or are willing to get in shape before enlistment. The military shouldn't discrimanate based on age as long as a person can pass all the physical and mental requirements. My first unit was a combat unit. I remember my Sgt. Major was 58 years old and just as fit as I was at 18. We jogged two miles a day, plus PT and he kept up with us counting cadence. If I have the chance of reenlisting at 48, I would go 11-x. I most definately could hold my own against anyone standing beside me. I see no difference with those who are still in the Army at 42+ and those out and wanting to reenlist. To me it sounds a little sterotypical to say "old people" "42+" all have medical problems such as osteoarthritis etc. I think this issue about age has to be reevaluated by the Armed Services Comittee and the top brass. At the very least have a trial program of taking ex-military 42+ to see what we can do given the chance. Press forward, support our troops.

[Iwannaserve]

Thanks WIBecky74 for the information. I had 4 years of active prior service and 2 yrs of non-active reserve. After applying my active service, I'm 1 year 9 months short of the age requirement.

[m15a2]

All due respect Spc.Tischner,if you cant speak for the Army than why are you answering questions on this board? O.K. so the guy cant serve,he is just trying to make a point.Your point about not being able to put in 20 years because of the retirement age is no reason for having a 42 year old cut off.Not everyone puts in 20 years.

[andrew.tischner]

well m15a2 i cannot answer for the army cause im a E-4 and not a 4 star general that works at the pentegon, the enlisted side of the house inforces rules and regulation we do not make it. I answer recruiting questions if you want it plain and simple i can put it like that.

If you are 42 or older you cannot join plain and simple.
unless your a doctor.
or if you are prior service.

So if you have no military experice and are over 42 you cannot join, and for you m15a2 the things the recruiters and myself post on this board 99 percent of the time is facts, its what we get told down the chain of command behind reasonings of regulation. There is 1000s of things i would love to change to get more people into the guard, but again recruiters in general have no power to change the reg, and recruiters do not talk to congress or generals and tell them what to do.

[gsimes]

Where are the recuiters and officers that can to push this issue all the way up to the Generals, that can go to the senate armed services com. I'm sure the request to raise the age from 35 to 42 was made by the Generals,I don't believe that congress made the change all by themselves.For crying out loud I'm not trying to get the Army to switch from green to purple just adjust their retirement policy or create an age wavier.Although some don't think so, I believe that this a form of age discrimination,I know about federal regs,but try this in the civilian job market and there is a good chance that somebody is going to sue somebody.It's ironic that on the Nat. Guard web site it says they are an equal opportunity employer and do not discriminate against age.Hey I know it's service to your country but you still get paid.
gsimes
army strong

[Don'tGiveUp!]

Just wanted to step in and say I received an 'exception to policy' due to MY age. I'll be 43 (9 months too late for the age limit) come May 5th. I was first denied but after writing (my letter was dated Feb. 3rd) to Pres. Bush and my Wisconsin Gov. Jim Doyle, my recruiter was told to process me! I take my ASVAB test this Thursday with my medical exam the following day in Milwaukee. The highlights of my letter were that I knew and understood what 'enlistment AND deployment' meant. Also that I was in better shape than half of the young people out there today, which is true. Those of you over 40, please don't give up if you want this bad enough! All I was told that I had to 'be out' by the time I was 62. If you have a medical condition, it will no doubt be found in your military medical exam, same as for the 'youngsters'. I want my opportunity to serve my county, I'm just sorry it took me so long to 'act'. Please don't give up.
I'm confident I'll past my tests with 'red, white and blue' colors!:)
Go Guard Go! :D
~Beth~

[Iwannaserve]

Thank you Spc Andrew Tischner for your input and information on this message board and serving our country. I also want to thank all the other 42+ persons who contribute to this thread that are trying to reenlist/join the military. Press forward and keep supporting our troops.

[Iwannaserve]

Where are the recuiters and officers that can to push this issue all the way up to the Generals, that can go to the senate armed services com. I'm sure the request to raise the age from 35 to 42 was made by the Generals,I don't believe that congress made the change all by themselves.For crying out loud I'm not trying to get the Army to switch from green to purple just adjust their retirement policy or create an age wavier.Although some don't think so, I believe that this a form of age discrimination,I know about federal regs,but try this in the civilian job market and there is a good chance that somebody is going to sue somebody.It's ironic that on the Nat. Guard web site it says they are an equal opportunity employer and do not discriminate against age.Hey I know it's service to your country but you still get paid.
gsimes
army strong
gsimes..amen to that!!! All we want is an 'age waiver' so we can serve our country again. I've been working out for the last year and feel im in better shape than I have ever been. Most recruiters aren't giving me any hope and yes I know we can't change the rules. I wish I could somehow submit my reenlistment papers up the chain of command. We can have faith and press on. Support our troops.

[Iwannaserve]

Just wanted to step in and say I received an 'exception to policy' due to MY age. I'll be 43 (9 months too late for the age limit) come May 5th. I was first denied but after writing (my letter was dated Feb. 3rd) to Pres. Bush and my Wisconsin Gov. Jim Doyle, my recruiter was told to process me! I take my ASVAB test this Thursday with my medical exam the following day in Milwaukee. The highlights of my letter were that I knew and understood what 'enlistment AND deployment' meant. Also that I was in better shape than half of the young people out there today, which is true. Those of you over 40, please don't give up if you want this bad enough! All I was told that I had to 'be out' by the time I was 62. If you have a medical condition, it will no doubt be found in your military medical exam, same as for the 'youngsters'. I want my opportunity to serve my county, I'm just sorry it took me so long to 'act'. Please don't give up.
I'm confident I'll past my tests with 'red, white and blue' colors!:)
Go Guard Go! :D
~Beth~
Beth..congratulations!!! Press forward and good luck to you and your family and your new career. Thanks for the encouragement. I will not give up. Keep the faith, support our troops.

[Iwannaserve]

I just want to get a little more info out there and get things off my chest. I really don't understand what the big deal is to offer 'age waivers' to prior service who are physically and mentally capable of fulfilling the job requirements. I don't have a college degree but I do have an abundance of life experiences, knowledge and common sense. I'm more intelligent now than I was during my younger days. I was asked if I could pass the ASVAB test and I know I can pass it after studying a bit and a bit more well maybe much more. I can pass the PT with flying colors. So I keep the faith, pressing on. Support our troops.

[gsimes]

Just wanted to step in and say I received an 'exception to policy' due to MY age. I'll be 43 (9 months too late for the age limit) come May 5th. I was first denied but after writing (my letter was dated Feb. 3rd) to Pres. Bush and my Wisconsin Gov. Jim Doyle, my recruiter was told to process me! I take my ASVAB test this Thursday with my medical exam the following day in Milwaukee. The highlights of my letter were that I knew and understood what 'enlistment AND deployment' meant. Also that I was in better shape than half of the young people out there today, which is true. Those of you over 40, please don't give up if you want this bad enough! All I was told that I had to 'be out' by the time I was 62. If you have a medical condition, it will no doubt be found in your military medical exam, same as for the 'youngsters'. I want my opportunity to serve my county, I'm just sorry it took me so long to 'act'. Please don't give up.
I'm confident I'll past my tests with 'red, white and blue' colors!:)
Go Guard Go! :D
~Beth~
YES! YES! Computer wont let me holler hooahh.gsimes

[gsimes]

I just want to get a little more info out there and get things off my chest. I really don't understand what the big deal is to offer 'age waivers' to prior service who are physically and mentally capable of fulfilling the job requirements. I don't have a college degree but I do have an abundance of life experiences, knowledge and common sense. I'm more intelligent now than I was during my younger days. I was asked if I could pass the ASVAB test and I know I can pass it after studying a bit and a bit more well maybe much more. I can pass the PT with flying colors. So I keep the faith, pressing on. Support our troops.
HEY was wondering, you think if we keep on skawaking enough it will be like when we were kids our parents would give us what we wanted just to shut us up.If we could be so lucky. JUST KIDDING Keep pressing on, write the letters all the way to the top, it will happen I believe,stay optimistic,pessimism will drain you down every time, cant hit the target looking at the ground
gsimes armystrong hooahh

[touchofc]

We won't give up, my husband wants to join and he is 48. He wants to serve his country and be out by the age of 62. Thanks for the encouragement, I am so happy for you that you received your exception to the policy. God bless you for wanting to serve. Thank you for the positive input. We will press forward.

[m15a2]

Specialist Tischener, how do you expect to recruit anybody with your poor attitude? Your grammar alone should keep you off of this site.If you ask me, your statements should be 100 percent true, not 99. The way you present yourself could actually sour a potential recruit towards the guard. You should be able to answer a question in a way that doesnt make a potential recruit feel stupid. I am glad that you are serving,and I wish you every success.

[Grahmbo]

If you aren't able to meet the National Guard's age requirements, you could always consider your state State Defense Force, or SDF. In a few states, these groups, also known as State Guard or State Military Reserves are components of the state's military department, just like the state's National Guard.

Generally, State Defense Forces allow people to join who are quite a bit older than the Guard. Depending on the state, SDF members could end up assisting National Guardsmen as they prepare for deployment or training to deal with disasters in the state.

SDFs are primarily designed to remain in the state, so you won't be deploying to Iraq or Afghanistan, but you can still perform a valuable service to your state and community.

If you would like to learn more, please let me know.

[MEH7777]

I'm also trying to get something done about this. Are you having any luck and what avenues have you pursued? Have you been able to find a sponsor/congressman to address this by taking a bill to the hill? I'm a seven year Navy vet and recently inquired about serving my country again in the reserves and found out I was just a bit to old as well. Congress had addressed the longevity issue by raising the Social Security age limit to 66 & one-half in my case so they know that Americans are living and working longer. The 50 of today is the 30 of yesterday but the Military hasn't recognized that for some reason. The age limit should be raised to at least 65or in alignment with Social Security age since they hagve already established this age limit. Let me know what I can do to help or who I can contact as well.

Mike

[MEH7777]

Could I get a copy of your letter and the addresses you sent this out too? I've been trying to find out how to do this myself.

Mike

MEH7777@COMCAST.NET

[andrew.tischner]

Ok just to update this board,

I have seen lots of posts of people actualy getting into the guard over the "regulation" max age.

But here is something common with them.

About 90 percent have some form of prior service time. Now the math for prior service to get in is Age - Years of service = Re enlistment age

So

45year old male - 6 years of time in the army = 39 years old for us to re enlist them.


What i have seen recently is lets say you are

49yrs- 4 years = 45 this would mean you are over the required age limit.

Now i have heard that there is exception to policys being done with this sort of circumstance.


Now for non Priors i have seen on this message board some are getting in over the max age.

You will need a couple of things though. 1 is a recruiter that is willing to work with a unqualified person per regulation.

2 the one thing i have seen in common is all of them have written to their higher forms of government. IE Senetors, congressmen, president

3 you will have to be almost a perfect applicant ( which is hard to find for even people in the age bracet) You will have to almost have no past or current medical problems.


Now in no way am i "suggesting" for people to do this. But in current history it has been done by a select few, and after agreeing that there is no way you can retire they let you "process" to join.

Now key word is process. Now what i have said in many presentations is that about 60 percent of people i meet that want to join i can disqualify within 10 minutes with just talking to them. Of that 40 percent i dont 50 percent disqualify themselves before we even go to take the medical exam.

Now I have been lucky and I have had zero people go to meps without enlisting within 1 month. so i basicaly have a 100 percent sucess rate once you walk into meps.

So... Basicaly im saying to all the eager 45 year olds out there with no prior service, the regulation is stilll 41 and 364 days old to join. BUT.... there has been a few to get "past" this regulation with alot of time and effort put in by the individual.

[rjw0844]

For the last year or two this nagging desire has been there, urging me to look into the National Guard / Reserves. And here I thought I was the only person my age (44) that was having these sort of thoughts! Stumbled onto the forum in a roundabout sort of way today, and I have to say that I was surprised at the number of people that are considering this. I served 4 years in the Marines from 18-22, was honorably discharged with several advanced schools during the time I was in.

I've since went on to a professional career that has me earning a comfortable living, have a wife and 2 kids in college, my life is in a good place right now. And yet, I can't get get this out of my mind - something I'm seriously drawn to. The few people I've talked to about it, close friends (no prior military service though) think I'm certifiably nuts for thinking about it.

I'm currently training for a century (100 mile) bike ride in June and a Triathlon in July, so the physical part doesn't concern me. I have no health conditions other than muscles aching a bit more now when I abuse them than they did when I was in my 20's & 30s ! :)

So how does it work, does the rank you held from prior service have any impact on joining, expecially if you join a different branch?

[gsimes]

Spc Andrew Tischner
In response to your post,1 I have a recuiter that is working with me,and even though he is bound by the regulations,he supports my right to pursue this.
2 I have written all the higher forms of goverment,and have been told I have been noticed.
3 I have no current medical problems,nor have I had any past medical problems,not even any broken bones.
NOW, if I was in that 10% of the ones that you take to meps , would you be supportive?
I donot understand why you would not suggest for anyone who fits into this 10% bracket,as you probably have read all the post's that I have written on and about this subject,this is exactly what I am advocating.I don't believe there will be a lot out of shape people {old guys} suddenly trying to enlist.
Somehow I believe that when you are in your late 40s or early 50s you will see things from a different perspective.gsimes

[andrew.tischner]

Gsimes

Please re read my post.

its about 20 percent of people i take down. ( 50 percent of 40 percent )

also there is a reason that some words are in qoutations. Please try to read it from the perspective of someone that needs to only reply on what is regulation.

again like i said there is a reason words are drawn out.

so please dont take it the wrong way

[gsimes]

Gsimes

Please re read my post.
its about 20 percent of people i take down. ( 50 percent of 40 percent )
also there is a reason that some words are in qoutations. Please try to read it from the perspective of someone that needs to only reply on what is regulation.
again like i said there is a reason words are drawn out.
so please dont take it the wrong way
Don't worry I am not taking it the wrong way,I understand where your comming from,all you have to work with is the regulations you are bound by,but me being a civilian for the time being I am just trying to get that ruleing,and when I do,then get past basic,go into my mos I will go to E-4,and if I ever get to NJ I'll look you up and buy you a drink!;)

[gsimes]

Gsimes

Please re read my post.
its about 20 percent of people i take down. ( 50 percent of 40 percent )
also there is a reason that some words are in qoutations. Please try to read it from the perspective of someone that needs to only reply on what is regulation.
again like i said there is a reason words are drawn out.
so please dont take it the wrong way

Hey look at the views this threads getting and the responces,gotta admit its a hot topic.HOOAAHH

[GDixon]

I hope this isn't a dead thread, been finding a little glimmer of hope here !
Like some here I also would love to reup, even with my PS subtracted I am too old by a yr and some days.
And who cares about retirement! Most of us at this time in our life have allready planned that out.

Greg

[GDixon]

Hope this thread is still alive!
Gives a few some little hope, I am trying to get back in also but have found even with my active subtracted from my age I miss by only a yr and some days.
Any updates or has anyone had any good luck yet?

[gsimes]

write lots of letters to the polititions,ahd the members of the chief of staff.the Pres, the Sect.of the Army,and any high official who you think can and will help you.lots and lots of letters,if you want it bad enough you'll write,a lot of grease has to be put on this wheel.I have written over 30 letters and got one negitive reply,so I am not giving up,I just need to find the one person who will go to batt for me,enstead of saying no just because the regs. say------------------------------------------
good luck. g.simes

[lrominger]

So -if I am 38-can I join the guard? (a cursory glance at internet is showing 34 as the limit) I would appreciate any help-

[WIBecky74]

You can join at age 41, you need to ship to basic training before your 42nd birthday. For non prior service.

[AbnMtn]

Yes, you can join if you're 38. The current age limit is 42 (must be on your way to boot camp no later than on your birthdate).

[Hoooah42]

I am 42 and re-enlisted in the Army (too old to go back in Marines). I was out for 21 years and had to go back thru basic. I scored a 269 on my final PT test and finished in the front of our final ruck march (12k). I will take that for an old man! Point is, not everyone wants to retire from the service. Some just want to do what they can. Us older soldiers know our limits and will know when to call it. But I will take a 40yr old with me to battle anyday before I would an 18yr old! Try living in barracks with 45 guys 20 yrs your younger! It was the hardest part of basic for me. If a 40yr old wants to serve theircountry, let them try. The worst that happens is they dont make it and move on. I dont think anyone should have the right to say "you are too old to serve your country"!

[zaba]

I guess I don't understand why we are not asked to sign a waiver. I would gladly sign it. I don't understand the logic that spends so much money in trying to recruit young men and women, hoping to shape them into the leaders of tomorrow while dismissing a large portion of the populace by using an arbitrary cipher such as age.

Why not put us through the same physically demanding set of requirements, challenge our mental acumen etc. but don't set the age at some arbitrary number and write us off when all we want to do is serve our country.

And the age requirement became 37 when I turned 38 and 41+12Mo right when I turned 42. My recruiter told me I missed the cutoff by 3 months.

[zaba]

I wanted to add. That when someone signs up to put their lives on the line for their country, the last thing on their minds is retirement.

I wrote a few folks and got "politicians" responses about serving in the State Militia's. I guess they really don't understand what it means to want to serve.

[servemycountry2]

I wish that the Government and younger members of the military would understand that because citizens in their 40's wanting to serve, are not in it for a quick retirement. We want to defend our country.

[LT_77]

I guess I don't understand why we are not asked to sign a waiver. I would gladly sign it. I don't understand the logic that spends so much money in trying to recruit young men and women, hoping to shape them into the leaders of tomorrow while dismissing a large portion of the populace by using an arbitrary cipher such as age.

Why not put us through the same physically demanding set of requirements, challenge our mental acumen etc. but don't set the age at some arbitrary number and write us off when all we want to do is serve our country.

And the age requirement became 37 when I turned 38 and 41+12Mo right when I turned 42. My recruiter told me I missed the cutoff by 3 months.

If things continue down the path they are going, you might just get your chance ;)

[Eddie]

I wish that the Government and younger members of the military would understand that because citizens in their 40's wanting to serve, are not in it for a quick retirement. We want to defend our country.

You can volunteer for your State's Militia. They perform state duties and are augmentees to the Guard for the State. In Ohio there is a large contingent of Ohio militia majority are trained to be MP's they are under the command of the Adj general and the Governor. Many of the members are prior service from all branches, however, there are some that have never served federal or state. It is an awesome opportunity to serve your state, and fellow man.

[fuzz508pd]

I made it thru Fort Benning OSUT at 38 years old without to many problems. My experience is "older" guys will make it because they want to be there and are more determined.

[Spc Smith]

So -if I am 38-can I join the guard? (a cursory glance at internet is showing 34 as the limit) I would appreciate any help-


I am 38 and I joined the Guard just this last November. I am prior Service, but you can still join if you are not.

[89B_Gillispie]

Hey if you can you can talk to me and I will assist you in any questions you may have.

[Patriot1901]

Greetings my fellow Americans. I would like to know if it is at all possible for a healthy, strong 52 year old man to join the US Army. I have read all the posts here and would like to especially thank Sgt. Tischner for his courtesy and professionalism on the phone, a credit to the Corps.
I understand about civil air patrol, state militias etc. I am interested in none of those. I seek to serve humbly and quietly the nation that I deeply love and respect. I am indebted to all the service members of our nation beyond what words could possibly convey.
I know that the age limit at present is 41 years, 364 days. My question would be what does a soldier do that joins at 42 when that soldier is 52 or 58 and is still in? I hope to serve for 2 years. I would greatly appreciate any positive input that could direct me towards joining as a non-prior. I understand that I would need a congressional type waiver.
Thank you for hearing me out.

[WIBecky74]

The age limit for joining is for retirement purposes. The Army has never said someone in their 50's was incapable of serving. So if they joined at 40, at 50 they are probably doing the same thing, just ten years closer to retirement. :)

[MelanieIsAwesome]

I also think that they should raise the age that you can serve. I have seen many 44 year olds that are highly active and are capable of serving. HOOAH!!!!!!!!:D

[Iwannaserve]

Bump - haven't been here for awhile, but just want to keep everyone aware. I haven't given up. I recieved a letter from the Department of Defense in Ft. Knox in April 2008, that no exception to policies have been given regarding age who did not meet the age limit requirments and none have been considered with NG or AR service. There is a bill currently pending before Congress to raise the age requirement. Nothing has happened yet though.

Those who served and are still in uniform. Thank you. I wish I could be serving next to you. Press forward. Think positive. I am never giving up. Hooah.

[Phantom]

Sometimes age restrictions are somewhat different if you are a medical doctor with a PhD, that specializes OR a a religious leader with a min. of a Masters degree in that field. Even in both situations there is a slim chance, depending on the needs at the time and so on.. Best of luck

[shutterm4]

the army needs catholic priests... you don't happen to be one are you?

but lets face it, if the age limit is 42 and your 10 years over that, your chances are none of getting in. Thank you for your support, continue to support the troops like you do.

Hooah

[Iwannaserve]

Sometimes age restrictions are somewhat different if you are a medical doctor with a PhD, that specializes OR a a religious leader with a min. of a Masters degree in that field. Even in both situations there is a slim chance, depending on the needs at the time and so on.. Best of luck


Thanks Phantom. I agree. Unfortunately, by the time I decided to go back to school to get a RN, my GI bill had expired. It is a long process for those who want to reinlist even with degrees from what I hear. I should be thankful for the letter I got from the White House. I'm not in limbo anymore.I hope the bill gets passed. I contacted my Senator's office to find out what the bill number and the status. Charles

Press forward. Never give up. Hooah!!!

[Iwannaserve]

the army needs catholic priests... you don't happen to be one are you?

but lets face it, if the age limit is 42 and your 10 years over that, your chances are none of getting in. Thank you for your support, continue to support the troops like you do.

Hooah

shutterm4 - thanks for the info. I'm not a Catholic priest. I do believe in God though. I wouldn't want to go in as a Priest or Chaplain. I've always been a layperson. I would love to be an 11B or back to 52B. I could handle it even at my age. thanks, Charles

Press forward. I will Never give up. Hooah!!!

[inv197]

iwannaserve please keep me posted on that age bill, i am only several months into my 42 b'day you can read my story under bad experience under adventure. inv197

[SSG_Hosey]

This is sort of a sore point with myself as I am a 45 year old enlisting into the Colorado National Guard. I ETS'd from a reserve unit in January of 08, and thus the enlistment is not a major issue. However at 45 I run a sub 12 minute two mile and hit 80 on the push ups and the sit ups. I believe if someone who is older and can meet standards there should not be an issue.

[zaba]

The fact is that the none of the Armed Forces (Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force, National Guard or Reserve) can change the age limit. The same Congress which is changing the age limit for Social Security, has the power to change the age requirements for military service....


I hear you SSG. But the problem with changing the mind of congress is that the same congress solicits the advice of the military. So the age limit Congress sets is predicated on what the Armed Forces panels recommend to it, not some number it pulls out of the air. It seems a useless dance fiddling as Rome burns.

Look this isn't rocket science. If the same standards are applied and some pass then have tem sign waivers and bring them in. How hard can it be to understand that if there is a 50 year old Colonel that is fit and can serve there can also be a 50 year old that can join and serve as a Lieutenant, Captain etc. We will sign waivers (I will anyway) so the Army can be relieved I am not trying to steal the retirement I am providing others with my taxes, I am no slouch intellectually, physically or mentally. Why don't we have the kind of Military leadership that says "this is a good thing, let's do it" rather than one that is always saying "let's find a way to cannonball this and get it lost in committee somewhere".

The Canadian Armed Forces don't have an age limit. And I guarantee you,(I have the background to know) with the coming unconventional conflicts in the Middle and Far East, in Africa and Latin America this country will need soldiers that can project a wealth of understanding and has language skills as much as it needs shooters and snake eaters.

I know I am preaching to the converted, but it just boggles my mind how the Military acumen and capability of the last century, Eisenhower, Patton, Marshall has melted away. These days the military leadership seems pure reaction instead of proactive or supportive. The country and its prestige have suffered greatly accordingly.

[zaba]

I hear you SGT. We are talking about people that can outperform a 19 year old recruit. I have been on teams with friends who were members of unconventional forces and performed at the same level or better in some cases. So we are not arguing about people whocan't perform at that level, let's let that point go.

The problem with changing the mind of congress is that the same congress solicits the advice of the military. So the age limit Congress sets is predicated on what the Armed Forces panels recommend to it, not some number it pulls out of the air. It seems a useless dance fiddling as Rome burns to petition congress when congress will turn around and geta firm shake of the head from the uniformed services who should know better.

Look this isn't rocket science. If the same standards, even higher standards are applied and some pass them have them sign waivers and bring them in.

How hard can it be to understand that if there is a 50 year old Colonel that is fit and can serve there can also be a 50 year old that can join and serve as a Lieutenant, Captain etc. Provided he is given the opportunity to test out.

We will sign waivers (I will anyway) so the Army can be relieved I am not trying to steal the retirement I am providing others with my taxes, I am no slouch intellectually, physically or mentally.

Why don't we have the kind of Military leadership that says "this is a good thing, let's do it" rather than one that is always saying "let's find a way to cannonball this and get it lost in committee somewhere".

The Canadian Armed Forces don't have an age limit. And I guarantee you,(I have the background to know) with the coming unconventional conflicts in the Middle and Far East, in Africa and Latin America they are in far better shape to deploy than we are. This country will need a soldier that can project a wealth of understanding and has language skills as much as it needs shooters and snake eaters.

I know I am preaching to the converted, but it just boggles my mind how the Military acumen and capability of the last century, Eisenhower, Patton, Marshall has just seemingly melted away. These days the military leadership seems pure reaction instead of functional. The country and its prestige have suffered abroad greatly accordingly.

[California Major]

California has a State Military Reserve, which is essentially a volunteer but unpaid branch of the Guard. Other states have them as well.

[civie31B]

@Iwannaserve, you have a PM.

I finally got my registration approved but am at work so I will post my story a little later.

[civie31B]

So does anyone know what this Senate or House bill is that Iwannaserve referred to? I'd like to get bill number so I can read it and possibly write to my reps about supporting it.

[Iwannaserve]

So does anyone know what this Senate or House bill is that Iwannaserve referred to? I'd like to get bill number so I can read it and possibly write to my reps about supporting it.

Aloha, Kevin. Thanks for writing. 43 is not old. It is just a number. I think with your past employment in law enforcement and corrections, you might want to make a resume along with letters of recommendations from your past employers. I did hear of someone getting in. They went to the National Guard. As a surgical tech, I am almost certain that you should be able to enlist. Have you contacted your National Guard Recruiter?

As for the bill number, I am still awaiting my senator to email or contact me with that information. I will post it as soon as I receive the info. I am told that this bill is among other bills grouped together. I am not sure what age limit increase this bill encompases. Also, our recruiters out here know there is a bill, but do not know where it is in the system. You may be able to contact your local recruiter and/or politician to find out.


I have contacted the Armed Services committee, the Department of Defense, the White House (including Sen. McCain and Sen. Clinton) along with my local state politicians (Govenor, Senators, and Congressmen). The Dept. of Defense and Ft Knox recruiting command sent me a letter that at this time there is no exception to waiver or policy concerning age. I believe there is a need for medical personnel and that age does not matter. I would highly recommend you contacted your local recruiter. I think I'm going to have to lobby, but our government sometimes do not like lobbyists.

On the whole I believe there are alot of us over the age limit prior service and non-prior service. Retirement is our main obstacle if we cannot put in our full 20 yrs, the Dept. of Defense will not allow us to enlist or re-enlist. I have said I would sign a waiver to waive my retirement benefits. I do not think our mentality or physical ability to perform as a soldier effects our abilty to service, its just the retirement issue.

Many mahalos for wanting to support this cause. Thank your son for serving our great country. Press forward, think positive and never give up. Hooah!!! Charles

[Iwannaserve]

Zaba, I agree with your comments 100%. I wish there were more people in the Brass and our polititians who would push Congress to increase the age limit so that abled bodied men and women could fulfill their desires to serve our country.

Much Aloha, press forward, never give up..I support our troops.. Hooah!!!

Charles

[civie31B]

Thanks. Please let me know as soon as you get the particulars on the bill so I can tell them specifically what I am asking. I am with you in this 100% and I believe we can make it happen if we can get what I believe to be thousands like us to act in one voice.

I do have to say that I told my son what I was planning and his first reaction was "Dad! Are you retarded??!!" :) Then I remind him that the last time we played basketball I whooped him by 10 points- he shut his pie hole after that. He told me that he would out rank me and would 'smoke' me, I told him as far as he was concerned not even someone with 4 stars on their shoulder out ranks me- EVER!! ;)

Raised that little turkey (little? he's 6'-7") by myself and this is what I get :S. haha.

[DEMO]

I can see you points of the age limit. Why does it really matter how old you are. yeah @ my peak in health and strength I talked down to my old man once. Before I got the last word out I was looking up at him. There is no reason older people would not be able to proform the tasks that us younger guys are doing and going to be doing. I support you guys and will sign to help the cause.

[budgie123]

Wow this thread has gone on for awhile now, I would just like to give my two cents on the topic. Has anyone thought how much it costs to train a soldier?Its not cheap
Now if your prior service and you wanna getback in you can, but if your not proir service they set an age limit. Maybe the military may not get back as much of a return on thier investment? im sorry,You Have had 40 plus years to make the decision to serve. Since i have joined i have talked to alot of people that said "i was gonna but" or its not "realconvienent right now, well sorry to say if your not proir service then you fall into on of those catigories.
that simple its 42 for a reason that ample time to make up your mind. there has to be a cutoff some where..

[budgie123]

sorry my typing stinks this morning.

[civie31B]

Wow this thread has gone on for awhile now, I would just like to give my two cents on the topic. Has anyone thought how much it costs to train a soldier?Its not cheap
Now if your prior service and you wanna getback in you can, but if your not proir service they set an age limit. Maybe the military may not get back as much of a return on thier investment? im sorry,You Have had 40 plus years to make the decision to serve. Since i have joined i have talked to alot of people that said "i was gonna but" or its not "realconvienent right now, well sorry to say if your not proir service then you fall into on of those catigories.
that simple its 42 for a reason that ample time to make up your mind. there has to be a cutoff some where..

How much of a return on investment is the military getting if a person goes in at 18, deploys and is injured or killed before they turn 20?

I went in to Law Enforcement when I was 21, so I did serve I feel, just in a different way. I also had a wife and child, later on I was a single parent so it wasn't a matter of convenience, it was a matter of someone having to raise my son. Who by the way is a 13 Fox with 4th ID and has one deployment under his belt.

The training is not the issue, nor the cost, how many Billions of dollars have we spent so far in Iraq and Afghanistan? The cost of training is a drop in the bucket comparatively. The issue is simply retirement. Something I am willing to either waive or take at a reduced level due to coming in later in life. And if the powers that be were motivated it is an easy fix i.e. change the **** statute! Write the paper and sign off on it, simple.

I applaud and honor your service but I don't think you fully understand what this issue is all about son. In a 16 year Law Enforcement career, a good bit of that in Los Angeles, I have seen and done things most people only see on TV or read about in books. Especially during the riots in 1992. Talk about urban warfare. But unfortunately with very strict rules of engagement. :rolleyes:

I have alot I bring to the table that can benefit the Army and the younger soldiers around me. And think about it, in my research so far I have found that both Canada and Australia have no age limits for their military- and apparently have felt no ill effects due to it.

So why not allow those of us willing to serve to bring our experience, maturity and knowledge to the Army? I don't see how it could be anything but a win-win situation for all concerned.

[lowbrass]

Wow, I guess I'm not alone in wanting to serve my country. A lot of folks probably enlist at a young age when it's likely that other opportunities have not yet presented themselves (education, career). Yet a lot of us regret not having served when we were younger (IMHO, the military is held in higher esteem nowadays).

I turned 44 last Friday, and I was away at A/T for the state militia in CT. I am also enlisted in the New York Guard (89th Army Band).

If I've read and understood the posts here correctly, several issues have been raised. Regarding the 20-years "in" policy, it holds water, but I don't think it's particularly a valid reason. First, we're talking about the Guard, not the RA; in this respect, most people, myself included, are not enlisting for the money. We have careers and other investments and such for that. Also, speaking for myself, I already volunteer, without pay (unless for active duty such as IET or AT, and at that, the money goes back to the units), and spend about as much time serving in the state militias as our state's guardsmen do (I drill once a week and then one weekend a month, plus two weeks of AT). Of course, this does not take into account deployments.

It is my understanding that Congress actually raised the limit to 45 in 2006 (?), but allowed each branch to independently set their age restrictions, not to exceed that set by Congress. Theoretically, the Guard could accept 44-364 year-olds without P/S.

I am prepared to give up all I've worked for over the past 17 years, e.g., successful publishing career, large home, cars, etc., to serve. I am in the process of becoming a police officer, in which case I'll be making about a third of what I do now. When you get older, you realize that it's your actions that define you, not what you own. As an aside, I aced the police agility tests and smoked the 20-29-year old requirements.

When I did my IET this summer for the NYG, I realized that I can accept the boot camp experience and put aside my ego and do what I'm told (including 2300 smokings!). Granted, it was only a week, but it was pretty intense (0500 PT, not getting back to the rack until 2300 or later). The PT was way too easy, though...but I enjoyed the cadences! Lol.

Once you've had the military experience, you appreciate the people who have chosen to serve, and it kills me that so much responsibility has been placed on the shoulders of so few. I agree with some of the other posters in that, if you can do the job, they should give you the chance. It's not like there would or will be a flood of enlistees; probably just a few of us older guys with a burning desire to fulfill our dreams of service to our country. I suppose this is a particularly sore topic for some of us, because, it's likely the first time in our lives that we've been told we were too old for something, and it stings!

My experience in seeking a law-enforcement career has revealed that the agencies have no maximum age restrictions like those in the military. The CT state police (I have a captain who is head of the SWAT team, and told me this last week) just graduated a 53-year-old trooper.

[cleerje]

There are examples of so-called overage troops serving in combat and performing just as well as younger troops.

When ****** ordered the German army to invade Poland in 1939, the entire army was mobilized, including the reserves which made up about half of the army. The reservists from the 3rd wave divisions (numbered between 201 and 228) were all middle-age men who had been too young to serve in WWI.
They were given an eight week basic training course (normally it was sixteen weeks) and sent into combat. While they did not come up to the standards of the regular army, they saw plenty of combat and surprised the high command with what they accomplished.

After the Polish Campaign, however, the German Army High Command conducted a top-to-bottom review of its experiences in Poland and concluded that the army had deficiencies that had to be rectified before the invasion of France, which was planned for the spring of 1940. The reserve divisions, even those composed of overage personnel, were put through a very intense training program to bring them up to the standards of the regular army. The physical training was very rigorous and weeded out those who could not handle the demands. In addition, reserve officers and NCOs were brought up to the standards of the regular army through special combat leadership courses. After seven months of this very intense training, the reserve divisions were ready for offensive action. During the invasion of France and the Low Countries they performed just as well as the regular army divisions.

For more information, see the article by Williamson Murray, "The German Response to Victory in Poland: A Case Study in Professionalism," in the journal Armed Forces and Society, 1981.

Middle age personnel can be brought up to the high standards of the regular army through intense training and good leadership. On the other hand, if the training is not intense and the leadership is not good, all you'll have is an armed mob that will crack in sustained combat. In other words, all troops, young or old, need to train hard continuously to maintain a high state of readiness for combat.

[louis.quinones]

Drafting Guys over 60
----this is so Funny & obviously written by a Former Soldier----

New Direction for any war: Send Service Vets over 60!
I am over 60 and the Armed Forces thinks I'm too old to track down terrorists.
You can't be older than 42 to join the military. They've got the whole thing
***-backwards. Instead of sending 18-year olds off to fight, they ought to take
us old guys. You shouldn't be able to join a military unit until you're at least
35.

For starters:
Researchers say 18-year-olds think about *** every 10 seconds. Old guys only
think about *** a couple of times a day, leaving us more than 28,000 additional
seconds per day to concentrate on the enemy.
Young guys haven't lived long enough to be cranky, and a cranky soldier is a
dangerous soldier. "My back hurts! I can't sleep, I'm tired and hungry" We are
impatient and maybe letting us **** some ******* that desperately deserves it
will make us feel better and shut us up for a while.

An 18-year-old doesn't even like to get up before 10 a.m. Old guys always get up
early to pee so what the ****. Besides, like I said, "I'm tired and can't sleep
and since I'm already up, I may as well be up killing some fanatical
son-of-a-*****.

If captured we couldn't spill the beans because we'd forget where we put them.
In fact, name, rank, and serial number would be a real brainteaser.

Boot camp would be easier for old guys. We're used to getting screamed and
yelled at and we're used to soft food. We've also developed an appreciation for
guns. We' ve been using them for years as an excuse to get out of the house,
away from the screaming and yelling.

They could lighten up on the obstacle course however. I've been in combat and
didn't see a single 20-foot wall with rope hangin g over the side, nor did I ever
do any pushups after completing basic training.

Actually, the running part is kind of a waste of energy, too. I've never seen
anyone out run a bullet.

An 18-year-old has the whole world ahead of him. He's still learning to shave,
to start up a conversation with a pretty girl. He still hasn't figured out that
a baseball cap has a brim to shade his eyes, not the back of his head.

These are all great reasons to keep our kids at home to learn a little more
about life before sending them off into harm's way.

Let us old guys track down those dirty rotten coward terrorists. The last thing
an enemy would want to see is a couple of million pissed off old farts with
attitudes and automatic weapons who know that their best years are already
behind them.

If nothing else, put us on border patrol....we will have it secured the first
night!

[fire4105]

can i go from navy res to active army and keep the same or as close to a master at arms i think the army mos is 31 b m.p

[WIBecky74]

Drafting Guys over 60
----this is so Funny & obviously written by a Former Soldier----

New Direction for any war: Send Service Vets over 60!
I am over 60 and the Armed Forces thinks I'm too old to track down terrorists.
You can't be older than 42 to join the military. They've got the whole thing
***-backwards. Instead of sending 18-year olds off to fight, they ought to take
us old guys. You shouldn't be able to join a military unit until you're at least
35.

For starters:
Researchers say 18-year-olds think about *** every 10 seconds. Old guys only
think about *** a couple of times a day, leaving us more than 28,000 additional
seconds per day to concentrate on the enemy.
Young guys haven't lived long enough to be cranky, and a cranky soldier is a
dangerous soldier. "My back hurts! I can't sleep, I'm tired and hungry" We are
impatient and maybe letting us **** some ******* that desperately deserves it
will make us feel better and shut us up for a while.

An 18-year-old doesn't even like to get up before 10 a.m. Old guys always get up
early to pee so what the ****. Besides, like I said, "I'm tired and can't sleep
and since I'm already up, I may as well be up killing some fanatical
son-of-a-*****.

If captured we couldn't spill the beans because we'd forget where we put them.
In fact, name, rank, and serial number would be a real brainteaser.

Boot camp would be easier for old guys. We're used to getting screamed and
yelled at and we're used to soft food. We've also developed an appreciation for
guns. We' ve been using them for years as an excuse to get out of the house,
away from the screaming and yelling.

They could lighten up on the obstacle course however. I've been in combat and
didn't see a single 20-foot wall with rope hangin g over the side, nor did I ever
do any pushups after completing basic training.

Actually, the running part is kind of a waste of energy, too. I've never seen
anyone out run a bullet.

An 18-year-old has the whole world ahead of him. He's still learning to shave,
to start up a conversation with a pretty girl. He still hasn't figured out that
a baseball cap has a brim to shade his eyes, not the back of his head.

These are all great reasons to keep our kids at home to learn a little more
about life before sending them off into harm's way.

Let us old guys track down those dirty rotten coward terrorists. The last thing
an enemy would want to see is a couple of million pissed off old farts with
attitudes and automatic weapons who know that their best years are already
behind them.

If nothing else, put us on border patrol....we will have it secured the first
night!



lol Dont tell anyone but you actually made me laugh at that one. Dont worry, i'll find something you write tomorrow that will tick me off and i'll be back to normal.

[lowbrass]

Okay, here's a story, looking for sage-like advice...

My SDF band (89th Army Band, NYG) recently did a joint drill with the 42nd ID "Rainbow" band at Camp Smith. We rehearsed all day with them on Saturday and played a concert with them the following Sunday. I got to chatting with a lot of the NG guys and really enjoyed the joint drill/concert. After the gig was over and we were helping pack up the bus for the drive back to camp, three of the SGTs of the 42nd asked me why I wasn't "with" them, meaning, why was I in the SDF and not the NG. I told them it was because of my age (having just turned 44 in August). After a bit of shock (I am always told I look like early 30s or younger...make of that what you will), their reply was, "So?" I think I perhaps knew more about the age limit than they did, having read these forums for quite some time.

However, they were somewhat insistant that I pursue becoming a part of the 42nd. I again explained the age limit, but one of the SGTs replied that he'd "talk to whomever" he had to to get a waiver for me. I suppose it was because they need low-brass players badly. They want me to audition for the commander at our next drill, to get the ball rolling. Should I bother? Am I being delusional? Does it make a difference in the possibility of getting a waiver if I am somewhat already attached to a unit that really wants me?

Should I worry about this, give it consideration, perhaps even get my hopes up, or were those guys just talking out of their...you-know-whats?

[WO1 Quinones]

I came back in at 38 and my prior active duty years put me below 35 so I was lucky. But all I have to say is that the military has really done what its could to making the age limit to 42. The other branches dont even allow this even though Congress has given them the leeway to do so. These wars are not going to last forever and I do remember back in 1990 before the Gulf War; the major downsizing the military was going through. Look at the Air Force and Navy and what is happening. The point being is that the Army did what they could in regards to troop numbers in the present time frame. Its going to revert at some point in the future so the age limit; in my opinion, will be reduced. All that matters in the government's eyes is the bottom line and 200 Hooahish 40-something individuals is not going to change anything. :eek:

[cleerje]

DOD is planning on expanding the Army by 65,000 troops and the Marine Corps by a whopping 27,000. Right now the Army and Marines are meeting their recruiting quotas, but this coming expansion is really going to strain recruiting efforts. But, they managed to recruit a much bigger military in the 1980's without increasing the age limit, so I don't see why they can't now.

We are heading into a period of confrontation with Russia and Iran. The plans for expanding the military are inadequate to deal with this. While the expansion of the Marine Corps to 202,000 is sound and about as far as it can be done, the expansion of the army by 65,000 is a drop in the bucket. It should be 2-3 times that at least. The massive drawdown in the 1990's was a mistake.

[lowbrass]

I heard back from the SSG on Wednesday and he told me that after speaking with several recruiters, my situation was a no-go. This prompted me to write a letter to both of my state's Senators. I also copied the letter to the SGT. He told me later he was very moved by the letter and decided to write on my behalf to the Senators as well. He actually spoke to Senator Dodd's office this morning and forwarded my letter to them as well. His stance is that, if they can make exceptions for certain skilled professions, why not for a musician (they desperately need what I play, apparently)? He went on, that a 42R starts as an E4 because it's a respected skill. So, while I do not have my hopes raised, I am happy in the knowledge that I have done everything within my power to try and make this happen.

If anyone is interested, I can post the letter here if you'd like to read it.

[WO1 Quinones]

I heard back from the SSG on Wednesday and he told me that after speaking with several recruiters, my situation was a no-go. This prompted me to write a letter to both of my state's Senators. I also copied the letter to the SGT. He told me later he was very moved by the letter and decided to write on my behalf to the Senators as well. He actually spoke to Senator Dodd's office this morning and forwarded my letter to them as well. His stance is that, if they can make exceptions for certain skilled professions, why not for a musician (they desperately need what I play, apparently)? He went on, that a 42R starts as an E4 because it's a respected skill. So, while I do not have my hopes raised, I am happy in the knowledge that I have done everything within my power to try and make this happen.

If anyone is interested, I can post the letter here if you'd like to read it.
I was in the Connecticut ARNG and met Senator Dodd so please post the letter.

[lowbrass]

I was in the Connecticut ARNG and met Senator Dodd so please post the letter.

Dear Senator Dodd,

I am writing to you because I believe you may understand and perhaps sympathize with my plight and that of countless other patriotic Americans over the age of 42 who wish to serve their country. Perhaps you may even be able to help my cause.

When Congress allowed each branch of the U.S. armed forces to set its own maximum enlistment age, I saw this as a great opportunity to finally be able to do my part, to serve the country I love so dearly. Of the branches, only the Army National Guard allowed citizens over the age of 40 to enlist. I inquired with a recruiter and was told that I would have to ship to Basic Training before my 42nd birthday which, unfortunately, was logistically impossible because I would be turning 42 just two months before that time.

I reconciled with this reality and have been able to be of some service through enlistments in both the Connecticut militia (Governor’s Foot Guard) and the New York Guard State Defense Force (89th Army Band). However, not a day that goes by during which I do not experience a desire to do more for my country.

I understand the complications of allowing older enlistees: the physical demands, the implications of current retirement policies, and the message that could potentially reflect poorly on our great military. However, I believe that those of us who yearn to serve even in our 40s are doing so solely for the right reasons. Not to become career Army, or to financially benefit through retirement, but for patriotism and sense of duty. Adjust the retirement, maintain current standards, but please let those of us who can, serve.

I have drilled alongside members of the 42nd ID at Camp Smith in New York, and quite a number of their enlisted personnel are substantially older than me yet perform their duties with great professionalism and effectiveness. I know that men and women well into their 50s have been deployed overseas, and some have made the ultimate sacrifice.

I have again spoken to several recruiters, all of whom have told me the age limit is strictly enforced and exceptions are made only for members of select professions. It saddens me greatly that, just days past my 44th birthday that I cannot make the sacrifice I so dearly wish to make; one that so many brave men and women have selflessly made.

Respectfully and with great sincerity,

[WIBecky74]

Hooah! Very nice. Good luck!

[WO1 Quinones]

Let us know when you get a response. Perhaps one of his aides will give you a call.

[CPT Burritt]

How much of a return on investment is the military getting if a person goes in at 18, deploys and is injured or killed before they turn 20?

I went in to Law Enforcement when I was 21, so I did serve I feel, just in a different way. I also had a wife and child, later on I was a single parent so it wasn't a matter of convenience, it was a matter of someone having to raise my son. Who by the way is a 13 Fox with 4th ID and has one deployment under his belt.

The training is not the issue, nor the cost, how many Billions of dollars have we spent so far in Iraq and Afghanistan? The cost of training is a drop in the bucket comparatively. The issue is simply retirement. Something I am willing to either waive or take at a reduced level due to coming in later in life. And if the powers that be were motivated it is an easy fix i.e. change the **** statute! Write the paper and sign off on it, simple.

I applaud and honor your service but I don't think you fully understand what this issue is all about son. In a 16 year Law Enforcement career, a good bit of that in Los Angeles, I have seen and done things most people only see on TV or read about in books. Especially during the riots in 1992. Talk about urban warfare. But unfortunately with very strict rules of engagement. :rolleyes:

I have alot I bring to the table that can benefit the Army and the younger soldiers around me. And think about it, in my research so far I have found that both Canada and Australia have no age limits for their military- and apparently have felt no ill effects due to it.

So why not allow those of us willing to serve to bring our experience, maturity and knowledge to the Army? I don't see how it could be anything but a win-win situation for all concerned.

With regard to your opening line, 100%. A Soldier who goes to combat has paid for all the training in the world, and if he/she leaves everything she has on the field of battle in the name of this great country, that is more in return than we could have ever asked for.

With regard to your arguments against having age limitations, part of me can understand and sympathize with your desires to serve. Unfortunately, I also agree with budgie (but please don't call me "son"). In 40 years you didn't look to serve in the military (I understand you served elsewhere which is extremely admirable, but that doesn't qualify you for military service). While you may bring in "maturity", you also bring habit. I don't know your discipline, your expectations of military life, or your ability to take orders from 20 year old LTs. The fact is, you haven't been introduced to our structure and system until you've already had someone elses ingrained in you. Breaking down and rebuilding a 45 year old man is no small task.

I applaud your decision to seek to serve. You probably would have been a great asset 10 years ago.

[WO1 Quinones]

Sometimes the proper and most direct answer is the one that you dont want to hear but its a valid point. As I age, I realize more and more that the military is a young man's world. I felt privileged leading young soldiers and breaking down doors in Iraq but IMHO; its better for the 20something staff-sergeants squad leaders should lead and do.

[WIBecky74]

I do have to admit, that whole breaking you down thing didnt really work even at 33 years of age. I have more respect for myself as an individual and have more discipline, but other then that, I really didnt change one way or another from IET. I've had others say they dont notice too much of a difference in me either. Then you hear about and see first hand younger soldiers going in as one person and coming out another. There is some merrit to that, however, is it the most important thing in the world? Maybe not. I did absorb all the trainging and even seemed to take it to heart (that I could be using it in a very short period of time and took it very seriously) more than alot of the younger soldiers. Not saying this is the most important thing, the breaking down and building back up and it isnt an opinion to if some should be allowed in after the age of 42 or not, just making an observation.

I do wish you luck and do feel some individuals over the age of 42 would be a great asset to the Army. It really is an individual thing, and how do you judge that? How can the deciding military personel know you enough to make this decision? It could be very time consuming. If they could come up with some regulation as to decide who should and shouldnt get this opportunity, I think its a great idea.

[lowbrass]

I agree with pretty much everyone's opinions on this subject. I can also appreciate the notion of the military being a "young man's game." I'm sure it's true, mostly. I went through the NYG's IET this July. Granted, it was only a week (seven days full), but it was very intense: 17-18 hour days, no down time, 0500 PT formations, many smokings, etc. If anything, I...and I hate to say it...enjoyed the experience. I discovered there that I could conform, take orders, get yelled at, view people from all different walks of life -- age, gender, race, socio-economic -- as peers, teammates, etc., working together as one. I found that I didn't have much trouble "giving myself over" to the training, without ego or preconception. I think, at least in my case, my situation may be a bit unique in that I am seeking to enlist for a specific purpose, in a specific unit and with a specific MOS that comes from my civilian skillset. So I would not be "beginning" a military career at BCT, rather, BCT would facilitate my eventual contributions to a unit that is seeking my particular abilities. Make sense? I hope so....Lol.

[WO1 Quinones]

I went through the NYG's IET this July.


Was that the Army National Guard or New York Guard? Disregard, I see that its the New York Guard, Anyway, sounds like too much for no pay :)

The ANG website shows alot of baddddddddddddddassesssssssss. I like the action pics.

Lowbrass, they seem to do some high speed stuff. I dont see a problem remaining with this (you can even join at 65). To me this is serving your state/country. I see that alot of former veterans come into this but I can't believe that this IET compares to our armed forces IET.

How about 3 months of this.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYVBlXGuVYg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yja_MJazDuc&feature=related

http://www.newyorkguard.org/
http://www.slopedigital.com/

[lowbrass]

I see that alot of former veterans come into this but I can't believe that this IET compares to our armed forces IET.

You are probably correct (okay, certainly!) in that assumption. That week served to whet my appetite, though. However, If you multiplied what I went through by nine...Lol...perhaps? I'm sure the PT wasn't as demanding, as it was certainly tailored for the wider range of ages. However, for a guy like me, I'm ready, willing, and able for much more...Lol. Pay? What's that? :p

[WO1 Quinones]

You are probably correct (okay, certainly!) in that assumption. That week served to whet my appetite, though. However, If you multiplied what I went through by nine...Lol...perhaps? I'm sure the PT wasn't as demanding, as it was certainly tailored for the wider range of ages. However, for a guy like me, I'm ready, willing, and able for much more...Lol. Pay? What's that? :p

nevetheless good luck. I am browsing through the site and pics. very nice. did you click the youtube links above? funny stuff.

[lowbrass]

nevetheless good luck. I am browsing through the site and pics. very nice. did you click the youtube links above? funny stuff.

Thank you W01 Quinones. Those links are great! The second one was just, well, *******' nuts (my favorite was the DI who was just yelling "AHHH, AAAAHHH, AAAAHHH!!! in the guy's ear!). The "dehydration" clip was very much like my NYG IET, if you can believe that. Funny thing, it was mostly the younger guys who thought they knew better. I learned straight away if they said hydrate, you'd better *******' hydrate, even if you weren't thirsty. Everything for a reason and purpose. We had some kid fall out (literally) from formation and nearly die. He was a diabetic FWIU and wasn't monitoring his insulin, and he was massively dehydrated (we did our IET in July and it was about 94 degrees and humid). He was actually not breathing or responding. Luckily, NYG HQ has the 244 medical on site also, and they were there in about a minute.

[FL-G8R]

We need to stay on subject here and keep this going so others will understand that the age limit needs to be raised. First of all the age limit is set by Congress at 44 (43 and 364 days) and it is up to each individual branch to decide what they want to set it at, the Army is currently at 42. It can however be raised to the limit if they need to.

I found this out as I have just gone through the whole process only to be denied. Took the ASVAB and aced it, took the physical, but my results didn't come back until 8:30 pm the night before my 42nd birthday. My recruiter said he would put in for a waiver if his Commander would sign-off on it and he did. Three weeks later the results came back and I was told there were errors and I needed more testing. At that the Commander decided he didn't want to pursue it any further and so my answer was no.

I've passed everything, and I know I can do everything they would ask of me. Yet here I am not able in their minds to do it because I am a month passed my 42nd birthday. I'm no less capable then I was 2 or 3 years ago much less 2 or 3 months ago. I have no intention of trying to retire from the military, I just want to serve my country. It isn't my fault that it took over 3 weeks for MEPS to get my physical results into the system. But I am penalized for it.

Age can be just a number, see Dara Torres in Olympic swimming, If you can pass the over 40 physical as I did and am in good shape as I am why should we be denied the privilege of serving? Anyways, I couldn't be more proud of you guys who are already serving and I will continue to pray for you every day.
Doug

[7011USMC]

We need to stay on subject here and keep this going so others will understand that the age limit needs to be raised. First of all the age limit is set by Congress at 44 (43 and 364 days) and it is up to each individual branch to decide what they want to set it at, the Army is currently at 42. It can however be raised to the limit if they need to.

I found this out as I have just gone through the whole process only to be denied. Took the ASVAB and aced it, took the physical, but my results didn't come back until 8:30 pm the night before my 42nd birthday. My recruiter said he would put in for a waiver if his Commander would sign-off on it and he did. Three weeks later the results came back and I was told there were errors and I needed more testing. At that the Commander decided he didn't want to pursue it any further and so my answer was no.

I've passed everything, and I know I can do everything they would ask of me. Yet here I am not able in their minds to do it because I am a month passed my 42nd birthday. I'm no less capable then I was 2 or 3 years ago much less 2 or 3 months ago. I have no intention of trying to retire from the military, I just want to serve my country. It isn't my fault that it took over 3 weeks for MEPS to get my physical results into the system. But I am penalized for it.

Age can be just a number, see Dara Torres in Olympic swimming, If you can pass the over 40 physical as I did and am in good shape as I am why should we be denied the privilege of serving? Anyways, I couldn't be more proud of you guys who are already serving and I will continue to pray for you every day.
Doug

You made some excellent points. I would make an appointment with the recruiter and schedule a APFT if you can run a 270 or higher at the 17-21 age bracket then how could they deny you? Dara Torres is a world class athlete she is not the average 40 something. I'm sure if you score that high they may entertain a second try. Sometimes you have to go above and beyond. As far as priviledge you are correct why deny your priviledge? Like anything there are standards and requirements. Why did you wait so long to pursue your dream? Most of us started out at 18 some alot older. Have you looked into state defense? It is a volunteer no pay affiliation to the guard. Good luck and keep us posted.

[WO1 Quinones]

I understand the frustation and need to vent but as with previous posts; you are not the first. The common response is that even though its highly commendable that you want to serve your country; the day that you enrolled in selective service to at least 41 years of age has been more than enough time to decide to serve your country. As in my earlier posts, the government has done so much to allow middle-age citizens to initiate a career in military service. Yes, there are some excellent physically fit forty somethings such as myself but that cant be the sole criteria to lift the age limits. I cant no longer serve in federal law enforcement and I accept that. I had my opportunity when I was 34. Fortunately I got back on active duty before my cut-off will have taken affect. I cant entertain to agree based on my experience.

[FL-G8R]

You made some excellent points. I would make an appointment with the recruiter and schedule a APFT if you can run a 270 or higher at the 17-21 age bracket then how could they deny you? Dara Torres is a world class athlete she is not the average 40 something. I'm sure if you score that high they may entertain a second try. Sometimes you have to go above and beyond. As far as priviledge you are correct why deny your priviledge? Like anything there are standards and requirements. Why did you wait so long to pursue your dream? Most of us started out at 18 some alot older. Have you looked into state defense? It is a volunteer no pay affiliation to the guard. Good luck and keep us posted.
Before they raised the age limit to 42 I was too old to serve then as well. I wanted to serve before then but I had a pretty good career and selfishly put that first. After 9/11 I really wanted to join but I was 35 and thought I was too old. Until my nephew who has been in the Army for 19 years called me this past Christmas and told me, I was unaware that the age limit had been raised.
I'm not comparing myself nor any other 40+ to Dara, I just was pointing out that it can be done with determination. I am determined, I have sent a letter to my Congressman and am awaiting his reply.

[FL-G8R]

I understand the frustation and need to vent but as with previous posts; you are not the first. The common response is that even though its highly commendable that you want to serve your country; the day that you enrolled in selective service to at least 41 years of age has been more than enough time to decide to serve your country. As in my earlier posts, the government has done so much to allow middle-age citizens to initiate a career in military service. Yes, there are some excellent physically fit forty somethings such as myself but that cant be the sole criteria to lift the age limits. I cant no longer serve in federal law enforcement and I accept that. I had my opportunity when I was 34. Fortunately I got back on active duty before my cut-off will have taken affect. I cant entertain to agree based on my experience.
I am sorry if I came across as venting, that would be disrespectful and I apologize, that isn't my intention. I am merely looking for some advice. I still have a desire to enlist into the Army and hope in the process to maybe change some minds as to the age limits.

[SPC Ski]

Just because you are overage, doesn't mean you can not "serve". I suggest you contact your states defense force.

[FL-G8R]

Just because you are overage, doesn't mean you can not "serve". I suggest you contact your states defense force.
We wanted regular Army, and perhaps getting a tour in Europe or Korea.

[7011USMC]

We wanted regular Army, and perhaps getting a tour in Europe or Korea.

You'd be in a rude awakening they just don't hand out command sponsor tours to Korea especially to Pvt. those are generally for NCO's and Officers. Maybe to Germany definitely not Korea.

[FL-G8R]

You'd be in a rude awakening they just don't hand out command sponsor tours to Korea especially to Pvt. those are generally for NCO's and Officers. Maybe to Germany definitely not Korea.
We were actually hoping for Germany. Italy would have been great too. I'm not foolish or unrealistic about where I would be stationed I'm just saying that Korea would be cool. I meant it in the sense that we wanted to travel some before our daughter gets out of grade school not that that was my first pick or that I am some how entitled to it. We had made all of these plans because we were sure I would be in the Army and when it didn't happen I started looking on the forums to find out if there was anything else I could do to get in.

[WO1 Quinones]

I am heading back across the pond in 50 days and they are changing it that you can have an accompanied tour to Korea. But I been to both places and IMHO, Europe is much better and will be enjoying it again soon.

[Mildawg]

And you gotta know someone to end up in Italy, or just be dumb lucky, like my stint in okinawa

[7011USMC]

And you gotta know someone to end up in Italy, or just be dumb lucky, like my stint in okinawa

Okinawa is the **** diggity! I was stationed at MCAS Futenma lived at Camp Kinser 1988-1994. Rich culture and nice beaches.:D

[Mildawg]

**** yeah it is :) Loved it so much me and the wife want to dig up some cash and go back. We lived on camp foster but were stationed on Torii. BEACH PATROL! but that was 2002ish to 2005

[WO1 Quinones]

Okinawa is the **** diggity! I was stationed at MCAS Futenma lived at Camp Kinser 1988-1994. Rich culture and nice beaches.:D

Devil Dog, we were on Kinser the same time so I know we passed each other by the chow hall. Did you know a Lance Corporal Lequerica, the female hispanic that worked there? She got out of the Corps and joined the NYPD. Attractive WM as they mostly are but found out she batted for the same team.

[lowbrass]

We wanted regular Army, and perhaps getting a tour in Europe or Korea.

The 42 age limit is for the Guard. The RA is lower, around 35-37 or something like that. You have a much better chance, if you can call it that, at getting a waiver for the Guard than RA. Read the previous posts and you'll see that the primary issue, beyond the obvious physical effects of age, is retirement.

[Administrator]

servemycountry2,

Your prior service will change the outcome of you qualifying to serve or not. Your time in service subtracted from your current age must be less than 42 years of age for you to join.

[Carbiniz3r]

The thing is, i cant argue with what the service provides as far as qualifications because they know better than i do, but i wish there was a way for you to prove that you were physically capable. Maybe that would change peoples minds