Drill Attendance Verification for Employer

[show_stopper999]

My civilian employer (The Army), sent me a letter basically saying that I need to provide proof that I attended drill on the dates I used military leave. All of them are legit, as in I wasnt using military leave for bogus reasons, but what they want seems a bit strict. Orders arent enough, they want proof of actual attendance, like a certificate of attendance or an LES with a FULL ssn, not only the last four. It specifically says orders are not enough.

Is there a certificate of attendance DA form I can fill out and have signed? Some days were legitimate but I dont have an LES from because we werent paid for them. I was with my OCS regiment and we were verbally ordered to afternoon before, etc. According to regulation verbal orders are enough for use of military leave.

If there's a form, I have no problem. I can have the OCS Commander sign off. If not, I have to try to jumble all of this together. They want proof of attendance for all dates from january to august.

Since I've already satisfied this requirement once with my supervisor who approves my leave, is this even a legal request? They have given me two weeks. If after two weeks I have not provided all proof they are changing it to annual leave (normal vacation time) and charging me for that.

[HR NCO]

I'm assuming you showed them your drill schedule, which is your order to attend. As for attendance, couldnt you just show them your LES? That would show the dates you were performing duty.

[show_stopper999]

The problem is they wouldnt take one LES because DFAS issues them with the SSN's protected. they show up as ***-**-1234. Second, some of the days were ADSW work for OCS, and even though I was paid, orders werent generated... They arent in my iperms and I never recieved anything. If you using a pay stub or orders as proof, I need both. Orders + paystub with full SSN OR a certificate of attendance. Orders by themselves or a pay stub by themselves arent enough.

I'm working both sides. I'm getting proof together, but also working on figuring out if this is even legal. I know its not legal for them to convert it to vacation time. I never had this requirement in 2010, then for some reason this year they want it. I'm not sure how USERRA applies since their dispute is with my use of actual coded leave, and not reemployment. I'm looking that up.

[Mr_Loki]

Wow, I would go to a USERRA rep. This is complete ****, I wouldn't take it from my civilian work.

[Chris36]

My office is right next door to USDOL VETS and they have a bunch of ESGR and USERRA gurus.....I'll go ask.

[show_stopper999]

I have another post pending approval. I contacted the DOL to verify if this is even a legal request and they basically said the Army (civilian employer) needs to STFU and pound sand. I'm working on a memo to verify it anyways, but I forwarded that along.

[HR NCO]

Oh...I just re-read your post and saw you have no LES for some of the time. I think that's a bigger issue, why are they having you show up on a day that you're not getting paid??

[SteveLord]

My RNCO just had a standard letter he would print on the unit's letterhead.

[show_stopper999]

The days showing up without getting paid was more of an OCS "You WILL show up the evening before ...." type thing. The bus left at 0-dark-thirty so we had to be there at 1600 the day before, even though we werent paid, or "you will show up early so we can do the PT test ahead of time" even though we werent being paid.

Those days...where i guess legally you dont have to, but if you want to stay in favor of the TACs you do.

So far after going through everything, i have all documentation except for four days of mil leave. I think the DOL emails pretty much brow beat the command into taking a memo, so I'll get the OCS commander to sign off on those four days.

[HR NCO]

Now that you don't have to worry about the wrath of the TAC, you should raise a fuss about this. You should have been on some type of duty if they made you be there. What would have happened if you would have been injured doing the PT test that evening? or had any other thing happen when you were'nt "on duty" officially?

[show_stopper999]

I could go on about this forever. I ended up paying $5k out of pocket for an LOD because that unit never procesed it and reassured me over and over it would be taken care of. It never was. it was to the point that the hospital was about to send me to collections and ruin my credit, so I finally just wrote a fat check on my own.

I was also never paid for the travel for phase 3. normally we get a small amount for mileage. Nobody in my class was. I was never paid at all for drill in february, despite reporting it probably twenty times.

I submitted paperwork for the change of my state tax and marital status FOUR times. To this day it isnt correct. I believe now its actually in process.

Eventually I just cut my losses and was happy to be out of that unit.

[ParalegalNCO1]

The problem is they wouldnt take one LES because DFAS issues them with the SSN's protected. they show up as ***-**-1234. Second, some of the days were ADSW work for OCS, and even though I was paid, orders werent generated... They arent in my iperms and I never recieved anything. If you using a pay stub or orders as proof, I need both. Orders + paystub with full SSN OR a certificate of attendance. Orders by themselves or a pay stub by themselves arent enough.

I'm working both sides. I'm getting proof together, but also working on figuring out if this is even legal. I know its not legal for them to convert it to vacation time. I never had this requirement in 2010, then for some reason this year they want it. I'm not sure how USERRA applies since their dispute is with my use of actual coded leave, and not reemployment. I'm looking that up.

This is utter horse poo poo.

1. This is improper use of your SSN. I would have a conversation with them about the DOD's intent to limit the use of SSN's.

2. You are required to provide documentation. The type of documentation is not up to them. If you are telling us the truth, and you really were at drill, I would use IG/ESGR/USERRA and tell them to F themselves.

[show_stopper999]

Here's the exact verbage, leaving out my personal info and the POC info at the bottom. I submitted one LES and it was rejected for having the SSN blocked out. Bold is there bolding, not mine. The only real hassle is meeting what they need for proof and getting the CO to answer emails. Beyond that I'm good. The days I dont have an LES for are 7/21, and 5/16. I rechecked and I'm good for all the others. Those are the evenings prior to phase 3 and prior to an FLX, both which required reporting the afternoon before so we could catch the bus at something like 0400 from the RTI.

The Department of Labor told me I dont have to provide anything for less than 30 days, but that seems a bit unreasonable for paid leave. If they'd take a simple memo and commanders signature on it, I'd be golden.


11 January 2012
S: 27 January 2012

Request the required documentation, indicated below, for the period 1/24/11, 05/16/11 - 5/20/11, 6/10/11, and 7/21/11 - 8/2/11 is forwarded to this office no later than the above suspense date.
__X__ Military orders (Military orders are not actual proof of attendance)
-AND-
__X__ Certificate of Attendance signed by the military activity’s personnel
Commanding officer indicating inclusive date you were present for duty.
-OR-
__X__ Copy of Military Pay Voucher indicating period.
_____ Certificate of Attendance issued by appropriate court personnel.
_____ Copy of subpoena/summons
(subpoena/summons alone are not actual proof)

1. If the requested documentation is not received, military/court leave previously charged for the stated period will be converted to annual leave.
2. To insure proper processing, your name and social security number must be clearly annotated on the documentation.

[Phantom]

This is fairly common. I bet I write 5 of these things for my soldiers every IDT weekend. Most employers will take a Memorandum on Letterhead, with a valid POC. And before you start writing your own, some employers do call to verify. I have submitted a copy of the 1379 with the SSN blacked out except for that individuals last 4. This is pretty common when you look at it from my side of the house. If you need a example of the Memo let me know, or just ask your Orderly Room, they have probably done this before. Dont freak out, it happens to the best of us.

[Polo08816]

Now that you don't have to worry about the wrath of the TAC, you should raise a fuss about this. You should have been on some type of duty if they made you be there. What would have happened if you would have been injured doing the PT test that evening? or had any other thing happen when you were'nt "on duty" officially?

It's NJ. And more importantly, it's the OCS unit. You cannot expect better. Quite a few of those who are part of that unit are there because of epically/egregiously failed performances. These few sour the re****tion for the other professionals that are part of that unit. What do they care if a few soldiers are injured doing a PT test on an evening when they are not even technically drilling? They've made far greater mistakes in their careers to end up at that duty position in the first place. This is no secret among the 50th IBCT.

[show_stopper999]

Follow up to this...

A memo from the OCS Commander wasnt enough since it wasnt listed in the memo, so I did some more **** raising and suddenly it became sufficient.

I figured out the back story. At my civilian Command we were originally serviced by CECOM for time and attendance and they were very laid back with this sort of stuff. Then we switched to having REDCOM perform our time and attendance and they were autdited last year and got their tails handed to them, so now they're super strict.