Will I ever get back in?

[at4user]

I was a month and one week into BCT when I was discharged because I was having anxiety problems and could not sleep. The DS noticed how fatigued I was and suggested that I get a psych consult. one week later It was determined that I was not fit for duty at the time and was sent home. My dd-214 says "Uncharacterized Discharge, RE-3, code JFW". Can anyone give me any info. I do not wish to reenlist at this time, I would like to know for the future. I am 23 and have plenty of time to figure this out.


P.S. I never have anxiety issues at home. This just started happening during BCT. I saw a shrink during my parents divorce because my parents thought it would be good for me.... thats about as far as my past goes.

[PalatialGabe]

I was a month and one week into BCT when I was discharged because I was having anxiety problems and could not sleep. The DS noticed how fatigued I was and suggested that I get a psych consult. one week later It was determined that I was not fit for duty at the time and was sent home. My dd-214 says "Uncharacterized Discharge, RE-3, code JFW". Can anyone give me any info. I do not wish to reenlist at this time, I would like to know for the future. I am 23 and have plenty of time to figure this out.


P.S. I never have anxiety issues at home. This just started happening during BCT. I saw a shrink during my parents divorce because my parents thought it would be good for me.... thats about as far as my past goes.

I'm no recruiter, but that doesn't sound too good.

[Hanson]

I had a RE-3 JFW when I re-enlisted. The process took forever. Granted, if it's a mental/psych issue, it's going to be a different boat. I had stress fractures.

You could talk to a recruiter, but who's to say it isn't going to happen again? That's what you're going to need to prove to MEPS.

[killbodies3027]

Of course it's possible for you to get back in. But before you start talking to a recruiter and plan your future out, you need to have a little "me" time and decide whether or not this is really something you want to do. Clearly your first go around didn't play out very well, but if you truly believe it was just one of those things, get back on the horse.

Either way, I wish you luck on whichever avenue you decide.

To put this in perspective for you however, I know a Marine that attempted suicide and was discharged from the Marine Corps who got his act together and is now an Army reservist.

[Gforces]

I was a month and one week into BCT when I was discharged because I was having anxiety problems and could not sleep. The DS noticed how fatigued I was and suggested that I get a psych consult. one week later It was determined that I was not fit for duty at the time and was sent home. My dd-214 says "Uncharacterized Discharge, RE-3, code JFW". Can anyone give me any info. I do not wish to reenlist at this time, I would like to know for the future. I am 23 and have plenty of time to figure this out.


P.S. I never have anxiety issues at home. This just started happening during BCT. I saw a shrink during my parents divorce because my parents thought it would be good for me.... thats about as far as my past goes.

Do you know what caused the anxiety? Did you have it the whole time you were there and it just finally caught up with you?

[at4user]

I had the normal anxiety from the minute I got there. Everyone gets it from what I hear. But it finally just caught up to me. I have always been around family so being so far away tripled what i felt.

[at4user]

Of course it's possible for you to get back in. But before you start talking to a recruiter and plan your future out, you need to have a little "me" time and decide whether or not this is really something you want to do. Clearly your first go around didn't play out very well, but if you truly believe it was just one of those things, get back on the horse.

Either way, I wish you luck on whichever avenue you decide.

To put this in perspective for you however, I know a Marine that attempted suicide and was discharged from the Marine Corps who got his act together and is now an Army reservist.

Yea Im takin some me time for sure. Just working a part time job right now and getting some counseling to maybe see if I have a big problem or not. Kinda freaks me out cause I have never been like that before.

[at4user]

I guess my other question is... I would like to try to get a job on the local Fire Department. Will the Discharge look bad? Can they use that as a reason not to hire me? I would assume that I would have to give them the DD214 Member 4 because they are city Government and it only says what I put in the first post Plus "member has not completed first full term of service".

[Gforces]

I had the normal anxiety from the minute I got there. Everyone gets it from what I hear. But it finally just caught up to me. I have always been around family so being so far away tripled what i felt.
I hear ya. Im assuming my anxiety will go nutz. I have a heck of a time trying to sleep at drill.
Anyways dont give up and good luck.

[at4user]

I hear ya. Im assuming my anxiety will go nutz. I have a heck of a time trying to sleep at drill.
Anyways dont give up and good luck.
Just try and stay relaxed on personal time. If I could go back I would do things differently. Dont let people in your bay get on your nerves either. There will be a lot of stupid people around you. Just ignore 75% of them. Just listen to the DS's.

[HR NCO]

Ok...if basic training was too stressful for you, are you sure a firefighter is the best career path for you?

[at4user]

Ok...if basic training was too stressful for you, are you sure a firefighter is the best career path for you?


Yea im sure. lol. I can bring family to the fire department. :-P

[Wobbly Emu]

I believe RSP NCO was asking if you could handle getting a call in the station of a multiple car accident, a house burning with kids inside, etc. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say your family will not be riding along with you.

The question is whether you can keep your anxiety in check while you roll to that call.

[at4user]

I believe RSP NCO was asking if you could handle getting a call in the station of a multiple car accident, a house burning with kids inside, etc. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say your family will not be riding along with you.

The question is whether you can keep your anxiety in check while you roll to that call.



I was kidding with him. Yea. The problem I was having in basic was never being far from home. I had all the people I needed within 50 miles of my house. being 700+ miles away took its tole not to mention Basic training itself. Back here at home I am fine. You wouldnt even notice if I even had a normal bout of anxiety. I think Im gonna take some of the money I made a travel away from this state. Or maybe it just wasnt for me. Who knows. But my question still remains... will the discharge screw up my chances there?

[7011USMC]

What do you want to hear? Truth or a lie? The national guard itself is over strength by 12-13K. They are accepting some waviers on a case by case basis.

How long ago were you sent home (discharged)? I would say get your life squared away. What I mean give yourself some serious time to work on your issues. Does that mean give up on your dream? Absolutely not!

Go back to school and get an education. Nothing better than working a full time job, going to school full time, and balancing family time. Stressful, yet you learn to maximize your time (time management).

If community college or a university isn't for you go to a trade school (JVS adult education) learn a craft and master it. Volunteer your time church, school, and hospital. This allows for you to NETWORK and gain valuable contacts. Allow some time for "old wounds to heal" then continue to work hard, take care of your family, and pay your bills!

In the next 3-5 years things maybe different as far as recruiting numbers, waivers, and conflicts. Not everybody is cut out to do this type of work. Like a wise man once said "you gotta want it like a fat kid wants cake"!

Don't take this as being hateful...Big difference being in the army than being a volunteer FM/EMS and being in LE. Military reserves the right to discriminate and at times can be crass, and to the point. Military is no place for the sick, lame, or lazy!

[Mike2K]

The 8-ball says Not Likely.

[Nathan]

Anxiety will go away within an indeterminate amount of time. It's up to you, basically. You need to learn to control it.

I was in the hospital for a few days, came home, and couldn't sleep for 3-5 days because of anxiety.

[BoopMD]

Sure, you could get back in. You would not even need a waiver but just make sure that you follow the reg to the letter. DODI 6130.03
---------------------------------------------------------------
p. History of anxiety disorders (300.01), anxiety disorder not otherwise specified (300.00), panic disorder (300.2), agoraphobia (300.21, 300.22), social phobia (300.23), simple phobias (300.29), other acute reactions to stress (308) is disqualifying UNLESS:

(1) The applicant did not require any treatment in an inpatient or residential facility.
(2) Outpatient care was not required for longer than 12 months (cumulative) by a physician or other mental health professional (to include V65.40).
(3) The applicant has not required treatment (including medication) for the past 24 continuous months.
(4) The applicant has been stable without loss of time from normal pursuits for repeated periods even if of brief duration; and without symptoms or behavior of a repeated nature that impaired social, school, or work efficiency for the past 24 continuous months.
--------------------------------------------------------------

It seems self-explanatory for the MEPS physicians, so I will leave as is. However, this is treated here as stand alone dx. Anxiety disorder is rarely ever just by itself. Usually, there are comorbidities of mood or personality disorders. If you have depression dx, along with anxiety that is another matter all together. That is definitely disqualifying. After the Ft. Hood massacre, psyche waivers will be extremely rare even in physicians that we would be in dire need. Absolutely, no one wants an encore! The risks are very high.

[andrew.tischner]

Sure, you could get back in. You would not even need a waiver but just make sure that you follow the reg to the letter. DODI 6130.03
---------------------------------------------------------------
p. History of anxiety disorders (300.01), anxiety disorder not otherwise specified (300.00), panic disorder (300.2), agoraphobia (300.21, 300.22), social phobia (300.23), simple phobias (300.29), other acute reactions to stress (308) is disqualifying UNLESS:

(1) The applicant did not require any treatment in an inpatient or residential facility.
(2) Outpatient care was not required for longer than 12 months (cumulative) by a physician or other mental health professional (to include V65.40).
(3) The applicant has not required treatment (including medication) for the past 24 continuous months.
(4) The applicant has been stable without loss of time from normal pursuits for repeated periods even if of brief duration; and without symptoms or behavior of a repeated nature that impaired social, school, or work efficiency for the past 24 continuous months.
--------------------------------------------------------------

It seems self-explanatory for the MEPS physicians, so I will leave as is. However, this is treated here as stand alone dx. Anxiety disorder is rarely ever just by itself. Usually, there are comorbidities of mood or personality disorders. If you have depression dx, along with anxiety that is another matter all together. That is definitely disqualifying. After the Ft. Hood massacre, psyche waivers will be extremely rare even in physicians that we would be in dire need. Absolutely, no one wants an encore! The risks are very high.



You are dead wrong here. He needs a waiver. You.... Doc... might want to not make so many posts just qouting a reg.

[BoopMD]

Tischner, do you mean an administrative waiver just to floor the applicant, because the individual would not need a medical waiver as the condition is a non-issue because of the 4 criteria that are now not met. Thus, this is not disqualifying.

[andrew.tischner]

Tischner, do you mean an administrative waiver just to floor the applicant, because the individual would not need a medical waiver as the condition is a non-issue because of the 4 criteria that are now not met. Thus, this is not disqualifying.


His seperation code is JFW

JFW - Erroneous enlistment; Medical condition disqualifying for military service, with no medical waiver approved.

Also, at MEPS you have to prove PS time, thus the dd214, thus it will show that he was disqualified for a medical condtion. Since the soldier was discharged for a medical condition it is required to get an approved medical waiver to get back into service.

And since he was dicharged for Erroneous enlistment, there needs to be Medical proof that the condition does not excist anymore for the CMO to put down waiver recommended, so for all Psychological issues you have tho have at least enough sessions with a Pschologist for them to come to a recommendation that you do not have the issue. This is before you even step onto the medical floor as all CMO's will DQ just the DD2807-2 and request medical documentation before he is even allowed to physical.

So the soldier mentioned needs a medical waiver.

Which right now will get disapproved as all Psychological waivers are not allowed as of currently.

[andrew.tischner]

Edited response.

[7011USMC]

Very informative...Thank you for the clarification.

[BoopMD]

True that is what is supposed to happen.
No walk ons who are prior service & copy 4 DD214.
Need admin waiver, just to be floored.

But it sure depends on if they are REALLY prior service, did applicant finish basic & AIT and on active duty and went through the whole MEB/PEB business. That's apples & oranges, in contrast to an entry level separation.

But just yesterday had a RE-4 come on who did walk on, no med docs.
Was not stopped by the RPQ - check by med tech.
Was supposed to be put in N status. Got passed the med control desk.
I hear about these things often.This is not uncommon.

This individual was DQ-ed after confessing during physical. However, this posters medical condition, like allergic rhinitis, is no longer disqualifying for military service.

As you wrote, this is the way things are supposed to work. But I'll be honest when I have generals, congressionals & what have you, if they want little Johnnie to come in. Believe me, little Johnnie comes on-board - waiver or no waiver.

I'd have to chat with the respective service waiver authority to see what specific waivers are being approved or not. I'll call Monday. I have not personally kept up, but I was just given a presentation by the MEPS command surgeon with a VERY high-ranking VIP, with whom we had lunch yesterday. Some psych waivers are approved. Maybe, that was based on last years data or was service specific. Perhaps, you are correct. I would not like to think that incorrect data was presented to me, but it happens.

Why do you think I am on this board? I want to know what goes on in the trenches. Obviously, I need to improve my fund of knowledge when it comes to this waiver business with "prior service" & entry level separations.

Thank you for educating me.
I am now going to double check with my staff, what is needed.

However, I would absolutely not recommend more psychologist contact with this applicant, if you will reread the new reg, the less involvement with psych professionals, hospitalizations & meds the better. If the CMO thinks a psychiatric consult is warranted it will be ordered at that time. If the CMO sends me all of this info plus additional psych involvement I would be more inclined to DQ.


His seperation code is JFW

JFW - Erroneous enlistment; Medical condition disqualifying for military service, with no medical waiver approved.

Also, at MEPS you have to prove PS time, thus the dd214, thus it will show that he was disqualified for a medical condtion. Since the soldier was discharged for a medical condition it is required to get an approved medical waiver to get back into service.

And since he was dicharged for Erroneous enlistment, there needs to be Medical proof that the condition does not excist anymore for the CMO to put down waiver recommended, so for all Psychological issues you have tho have at least enough sessions with a Pschologist for them to come to a recommendation that you do not have the issue. This is before you even step onto the medical floor as all CMO's will DQ just the DD2807-2 and request medical documentation before he is even allowed to physical.

So the soldier mentioned needs a medical waiver.

Which right now will get disapproved as all Psychological waivers are not allowed as of currently.

[andrew.tischner]

True that is what is supposed to happen.
No walk ons who are prior service & copy 4 DD214.
Need admin waiver, just to be floored.

But it sure depends on if they are REALLY prior service, did applicant finish basic & AIT and on active duty and went through the whole MEB/PEB business. That's apples & oranges, in contrast to an entry level separation.

But just yesterday had a RE-4 come on who did walk on, no med docs.
Was not stopped by the RPQ - check by med tech.
Was supposed to be put in N status. Got passed the med control desk.
I hear about these things often.This is not uncommon.

This individual was DQ-ed after confessing during physical. However, this posters medical condition, like allergic rhinitis, is no longer disqualifying for military service.

As you wrote, this is the way things are supposed to work. But I'll be honest when I have generals, congressionals & what have you, if they want little Johnnie to come in. Believe me, little Johnnie comes on-board - waiver or no waiver.

I'd have to chat with the respective service waiver authority to see what specific waivers are being approved or not. I'll call Monday. I have not personally kept up, but I was just given a presentation by the MEPS command surgeon with a VERY high-ranking VIP, with whom we had lunch yesterday. Some psych waivers are approved. Maybe, that was based on last years data or was service specific. Perhaps, you are correct. I would not like to think that incorrect data was presented to me, but it happens.

Why do you think I am on this board? I want to know what goes on in the trenches. Obviously, I need to improve my fund of knowledge when it comes to this waiver business with "prior service" & entry level separations.

Thank you for educating me.
I am now going to double check with my staff, what is needed.

However, I would absolutely not recommend more psychologist contact with this applicant, if you will reread the new reg, the less involvement with psych professionals, hospitalizations & meds the better. If the CMO thinks a psychiatric consult is warranted it will be ordered at that time. If the CMO sends me all of this info plus additional psych involvement I would be more inclined to DQ.


Doc,

It is not a admin waiver, you have to get CMO approval to put the applicant on the floor.

There is a magnitude of difference between a RE code waiver and a SPD code.

RE-4, depending on branch, can be simple admin reasons for serpartion, Such as hardship, Lack of family care plan and so forth.


A SPD code gives the exact reason why the soldier was seperated.

SPD code overrides the RE code, Narrative reason for discharge and Charactarization of discharge.

It is the end all of the end.


Now you said if someone is really PS or not, well the subject on hand is someone that was a entry level serperation, was mentioned in his origional post.

You are changing the paramiters to fit what you want to see, and the only thing I am commenting on is his situation.

We can nickle and dime each other on the 1000 different possibilities of someone coming on the floor, But I have been a recruiter for over 4 years, with easily over 150 people put on the floor of MEPS.

I have never, ever, seen a DD214, PS applicant (this applicant is GNPS) get onto the medical floor, with a Erroneous enlistment SPD code, without a Paper eval sent, and/or a predeterminization waiver approved.

Actualy 100 percent you would need to send a Paper eval with DD2807-2, PS documentation, and medical documentations.

I do not know what your experience is in the MEPS system, since you are the only proffesional on here that will not share credentials with the entire forum, and yes I know exactly who you are, but the case is people on this forum does not.

But from what you keep saying is that you are used as a second opinion on a CMO's call on issues. So you would not know the day/day process to get applicants on the floor, and/or the different waiver processes.

Just because it says waiver possible does not mean it actualy happens.

Case in point Asthma over the age of 12, requires a methocoline challenge test, a consult, all medical documentations from Diagnoses age to current( so applicant diagnosed at 6 and now is 20...) There is a waiver for asthma diagnosed, but does it happen? 1 out of a thousand.


Your proffesional expertise is welcome, especialy on medical issues, but just do not give people false hope when you yourself are not the CMO/ or approval authority at NGB and are not fully aware of all the different waivers there are to process people.


Lastly you might have seen a Psych waiver come to you , but not from the National guard in this FY. If you are working for MEPS or contracted for the entire DOD system, there is a huge differance. You might be reviewing a Marine/Navy/Airforce/ or Coast guard.

Since this is the Army National Guard forums, we only talk about standards for the NG, and what is put down from NGB.

[BoopMD]

Very interesting, thank you.

[SGT Bart]

Tischner Has Spoken! /bows

[at4user]

Ah dont worry. Im not getting my hopes up. If I can and do re enlist it wont be for a while. I DO NOT want to end up going back down to BCT and have the same thing happen. Im gonna make my life stable. I just wanted to know peoples opinion. Thank you everyone!

[Chaplain4me]

Stand by, you never know what the future holds. You may have a chance to redeem yourself.