Conditional release denied, now what?...

[sgtvega]

A friend of mine submitted a conditional release from the ARNG six months ago and it came back denied. She is prior service Army and enlisted in the ARNG as a 42A. She did not receive a bonus or any other written promises. She enlisted for two years and has yet to go to AIT for her new MOS. Her goal was to become an officer because she has a college degree and wants to be an aviator. She has had difficulty finding a job, so her main motivation for going active is financial hardship, as I am sure many others are. What would be her next step as far as possibly submitting an appeal?

[OCSAllTheWay]

Was it denied by NGB authority or just by the company commander?

[CPT Burritt]

Or, stay in the Guard and start using your state as a means to get a JOB!

Talk to ESGR, talk to your Education office (they now control Employment programs too, and may be able to help).

Going active isn't the only answer.

[qcomer]

Funny thing...even if she wasnt in the Guard she would be in the same situation. Except the fact that she is in the guard is a lil guaranteed income each month.

Why not go back to school full time and use the GI bill and stuff? Guard pays you and pays for your college.

Why not just stay in the guard, do as the CPT recommended. There are so many perks for employment when it comes to the Guard. State jobs, county jobs, local jobs, etc etc.

[HR NCO]

Considering the fact that it has to go all the way up to the AG then I would say there isnt really to many places to appeal to. The top of the chain has pretty much already heard the case.

[OCSAllTheWay]

Considering the fact that it has to go all the way up to a general and in many states it would be the TAG then I would say there isnt really to many places to appeal to. The top of the chain has pretty much already heard the case.

Well, I mean the 4187 could have been shot down before getting up the chain. Never know what "denied" means until you ask. :p

[HR NCO]

Well, I mean the 4187 could have been shot down before getting up the chain. Never know what "denied" means until you ask. :p

Even if the lower level command recommends disaproval, they still are required to keep pushing it up the chain. They dont have the authority to deny it, they can only reccomend deny/approve.

[OCSAllTheWay]

True, my whole point was just that we don't know her definition of "denied". Although, you are right if it went all the way up and got denied, there isn't much appealing that can be done.

[7011USMC]

Funny thing...even if she wasnt in the Guard she would be in the same situation. Except the fact that she is in the guard is a lil guaranteed income each month.

Why not go back to school full time and use the GI bill and stuff? Guard pays you and pays for your college.

Why not just stay in the guard, do as the CPT recommended. There are so many perks for employment when it comes to the Guard. State jobs, county jobs, local jobs, etc etc.

I think that would constitute effort! It is amazing how people rely on the govt. for a check. They think that its the only way to exsist or the only thing they can do. However, most when they were in the sheoit they were just "average" performers and hated the s-u-c-k. They get a taste of the "real world" and military life isn't so bad after all. I must admit it is nice to have a guarantee check on the 1st & 15th along with the perks. If the service member had a successful hitch it should be gravy; there are plenty of organizations that help in resume building, and job hunting techniques. You have to go out and hunt the job...the job isn't going to look for you! Plus not to mention utilizing your VA benefits including the GIBILL for college or trade school. Picking a career that is relevant and needed is paramount....example RN, Xray, Respiratory, or Allied heath para professional are always in demand. Like working with your hands how about Power lineman, truck driver, machinist or skilled labor (welding, electrician, mechanical, hydraulics/pneumatics, or operating engineers). Location and population is important and guess what? Sometimes you need to uproot and move to get that job. Just my 2cents.

[sgtvega]

Whoah..whoah...
The conditional release was denied at the top. There is a little bit more to the story, but my friend did not want to " go there". Here is the real deal:

I
Since she enlisted about 9 months ago, she has not had a uniform along with about 4 other soldiers. She had to purchase her own with her own money! This does not happen!! The reason she purchased her own uniform is that when she attended her first drill, on one, and I mean no one even acknowlegde her presence. It wasn't until she showed up in her uniform a couple of drills later with her Air Assualt badge did she even garner a look. The first drill she attended with her badge and full uniform, the CSM and LTC wondered who the new soldier was. She had been out of the army for about 8years and came out as a SPC.

II

When she was introduced to her BN CO, she stated that she wanted to go into aviation as a Warrant Officer. The LTC's response was that it takes an agressive mentality to be a pilot (you are not a male), what about your husband? (you should pick another field, S-1 perhaps), We are very busy with deployments (unit is not scheduled to deploy until 20012), Do you have any experience flying? (What is WOBC for again?) What do you do for a living? (What does this have to do with anything?)

III

As a Career Advisor, I know first hand as to what the job market looks like. To the gentleman whom stated that she should choose a more marketable career such as electrician, plumbing, etc..something along those lines, I ask, " Where have you been for the past year?" I attend many job fairs and see college graduates applying for jobs that would normally be worked by HS diploma holders. The job market is very bad as I am certain many of the forum readers are well aware. So that statement is invalid as far as this certain post is concerned. My friend has applied with many employers, especially with the VA, but we all know how that works. It is who you know and anyone that thinks otherwise is very naive.

This is why she wants to go active, not so much for paycheck, but for a chance to be an aviator and later on a physician. Her chances with the NG are pretty slim, especially is you have a BN CO such as hers. I am surprised EO hasn't dipped into this one. She did her time in the active component, deployed to Kosovo, and was an outstanding soldier. I know because we served together 10 years ago.

P.S.
Please excuse the typos, I am typing very fast.

[OCSAllTheWay]

How old is she? I know for AD the age limit for AV Warrants is 33 (waiverable, this info is via USAREC's website.), it may be different for the guard.

Reason I ask is because you said she served 10 years ago with you, so one can assume she was at least 18 if not older when you two served, making her at least 28. That's obviously way under 33, but that's assuming she was in at 17/18.

Now, ignoring all that, she could try and garner enough support for a WOCS packet to be approved. She would obviously have to talk her chain of command into signing off on it, but it's better than making them angry by submitting another release packet.

Since she's trying to go AD, I assume she's working with a recruiter or someone from the AD side to facilitate this. Maybe he/she can help her too.

[qcomer]

If she was denied, shame on the Guard. If I was in that situation, I would perform my duties to standard, and then ETS. Two years can go fast

Why shame on the Guard? She signed the contract obviously knowing what that contract meant.

Takes a little self initiative to get what you want, you cant just sit there and expect to be fed everything.

[sgtvega]

You guys are awesome. Much experience flows thru the halls of this forum. She has decided on two options:

Wait it out...two years is fast. She will be done next August of 2010
or
Apply thru OCS, finish her OBS, volunteer for a deployment, then go active.

Question about this one is would she have to go to AIT to fulfill her enlistment contract before she applies to OCS?

BTW she is 31 now.

[OCSAllTheWay]

Sounds like she signed a reclass contract already with the guard if I follow everything correctly from sgtvega.

If that's the case, it may be a point of that she signed a reclass contract and they don't want to just let her go. How much of the 2 year contract has she served without being MOSQ'd in her new MOS?

[sgtvega]

She hasn't been to AIT in her new MOS. She has been in the NG for 9 months and served 4 1/2 active duty prior to joining the NG.

[OCSAllTheWay]

Oh ok, so she is a reclass. That might be the issue. She needs to have pointed (yet respectful) conversations with people to find out the exact reason given. Example: Chain of command sends the paperwork up recommending approval but yet TAG denies it is different than the chain of command recommending disapproval and the TAG following suit.